Topic: Food [and a little of everything else] at Stalwart Guardian 04

[RGO]

I read with interest at the SG04 site some comments on the "questions answered" section about the use of IMPs versus fresh meals. I think that there was complaint about eating IMPs each day at SG03 and what could be done to improve this year.

I am only a civilian but it pains me to think that the fed's can't provide a sufficient budget to the reserves for a least 1 fresh meal per day per person while on an ex. Federal civil servants had a $23 dinner allowance years ago when I worked for Env. Canada, not to mention additional allowances for breakfast and dinner. $23 is about what it costs for one whole day's worth of real rations in the field according to what I read.

I'm sure that part of the training is to endure some toughness, including diet, and perhaps to use the IMPs that would otherwise expire - - but really, I think its unfortunate for the morale of our personnel if they have to eat IMPs for 7-8 days straight. I've never had one and I hear that the CF's are better than the US MRE's. Maybe this is not an issue at all?
 

[Eowyn [3]]

It might not be a budgetary issue.  It could possibly be a logistical problem of hayboxing everyone or a lack of qualified cooks.

[Mystix]

I was told we'd get three fresh meals well out there. The rest would be IMP's.

[portcullisguy]

Three isn't enough.  From the first full day of the EX to the last full day, it's about 24 meals.  And only three will be "fresh" ... the site hasn't defined what they mean by that, either, but we can assume hayboxes.

Does that include the smoker at endex?  Probably not, so say four meals.

That's still a week's worth of IMPs.  The magic snack truck didn't visit us all that often, and when it did it was usually cleared out pretty quick.

We got lucky one night and our company arranged a pizza delivery, that was one of only two fresh meals last year (the other being the smoker).

I think this year I'm bringing my own camping stove, and a few tins of easy to cook food... wieners & beans, or chef boyardee ravioli or something.  I'll keep it in my follow-up kit, and every now and then raid it when the IMP's get to be too much.  That and a few packets of Kikkoman instant miso soup, and that's a feast compared to the rations, I think.

I think it was Napoleon who said an army marches on it's stomach.  Even Meaford's food makes a summer's training doable, but 8 solid days of IMPs really raises the suck factor.

[MJP]

It is only eight days...does it really matter that much?  I'd probably be more concerned with maximizing the value of the collective training rather than dwelling on a few days of rations.  Don't get me wrong I love fresh rats as much as the next person,but eight days is really nothing, especially considering you know in advance and are able to bring your own rats to supplement yourself. 

[RGO]

I'm sorry to hear that you guys might need to bring your own canned food to the field. I think that things must be pretty bad If there are not enough cooks or logistics personnel in our military reserve to provide a fresh meal every other day or so to those training to serve our country.

 

[AmmoTech90 [5]]

There is no requirement to bring your own canned food to the field.  Three IMPs a day will feed you.  Bringing your own food is a matter of personal comfort.  Try 70 days of IMPs with 1 BBQ thrown in there.  Just went through that when we hit the ground in Haiti.  Ichiban noodles were a hot commodity.  I believe that the troops in Kandahar went longer than that.

[DOOG]

RGO..
You said it..you're a civilian. You will never understand. Soldiers will ***** about everything, anything, anytime any way. Eight days on IMPs is not a great horrible assault on their rights. It is probably a matter of logistics and training time. IMPs are a lot easier to handle than fresh rats. Kitchen trailers (that's the "field kitchen thingee") require a couple of cooks, a couple of helpers, propane, refrigeration (like a big freekin truck, or a freezer that requires generated power) along with someone of the proper qualifications to set up the ration plan, transport the rations and look after all the waste garbage (bears like garbage).

Field exercises using a fresh ration plan are great practice for the guys that lug the food to the troops and the guys that cook it but they are also a time consuming test of your logistics tail. Remember that all the troops are not sleeping in tents right next to the kitchen. The food usually has to be taken to them. Sometime this may mean a road move of 20 or 30 kms (or more). The breakfats delivery guy has to
set out at 0430 hrs to make it happen. Also, depending on the scenario, the tactical siuation may not allow for dealing with hot meals.

Lastly, as to Reserve units not having the cooks..that is correct. Some brain child in Fort Fumble decided that the "Army Reserve Establishment" of each unit did not neccessarily have to have cooks included. Also, it isn't all that easy to get them trained  if you do actually recruit one. The system for training people in support trades is really more for training personnel to take call-outs at Reg Force units/bases than providing Reserve units with cooks or mechanics.

However, after 8 or 9 days, I can see the need for a pizza run.

Doog

[RGO]

Interesting points Doog - thanks.

As you note, it is hard for us civvies to understand the true picture of the CF and reasons for certain decisons- - all we read about is chronic underfunding and lack of equipment - - unfortunately some of the practical aspects don't get reported. Anyway, Kudos to all you guys for putting on a uniform and have a good ex regardless of what you may or may not have to choke down for rations.

 

[Flawed Design]

8 days of rations? thats bullshit, I'm not going on THAT ex!
 

If enough people complain about not having fresh rations the troops will end up getting fresh rations alright, and they might end up marching 10Kms for their meals.

Wasn't it one of the tours to Somalia that our guys spent 6 months on IMPs?

Everyone likes fresh food but being on one or two of these exercises (7) i can tell you I'd rather eat rations for 8 days. Now heres why;

Rations- you get handed the food, mix and match the meals to what everyone likes, when meal time comes you cook up your food with your buddies and eat it. Done. You snack on beef jerky and granola bars. If your inclined to (like i often am) you can pull out a little stove and cook something extra. No dicking around. It's very personal so to speak. Your not being watched by high ranking officers and you can relax a little and be comfortable.

Fresh Rats- Unless it's dropped off to you, you have to march to an assembly area where 3 companies will be organized into   groups then you have to wait until each company files through the meal line. Theres no sleeping because it looks bad in front of the press that always shows up. Theres no cooking your own food (sometimes) because "the army is feeding you" your not allowed to make it seem other wise.   An undisciplined platoon will leave garbage lying around and your platoon will be tasked with doing a garbage sweep. 3/4Th's of the way through the meal theres a good chance they will run out of something because someone didn't indent for enough food.   All of a sudden the fresh meal you marched 6 Kms for, waiting around for an hour, turns into 2 hard boiled eggs and a piece of bread.   Hungry? Tough luck, since you got fresh rats there was no IMPs ordered for you. Then the bitching starts about how private so and so doesn't feel like he got enough food and smart mouth spends the rest of the exercise making sure everyone knows that he's hungry.   Stand back, he's going to put a memo into brigade headquarters.

These big meals are often done non-tactical. Big groups of soldiers sitting around,   then making a mad dash for the canteen queen when the truck shows up.   I can't stand exercises that flop from tactical to untactical to tactical again.


RGO, don't say your "only a civilian"   Your a civilian who is seemingly interested in the military in a supportive way and you want us soldiers to get better food.   When a civilian wants something better for the army i think thats pretty cool.

[MJP]

These big meals are often done non-tactical. Big groups of soldiers sitting around,  then making a mad dash for the canteen queen when the truck shows up.  I can't stand exercises that flop from tactical to untactical to tactical again.

I like the term Half-tical. 

[greydak]

I don't mind fresh food, but it's best for a range or something like that. I f we only do week long Ex's once ot twice a year we should make them as real a we can. Smokers are always awsome.
(It's funny how on the warning order, they stress "DRY EX" but come the smoker things get wet)

 

[Scott [4]]

By fresh food I am assuming that we are talking about hayboxes? Good God Almighty, I will kiss the bare arse of Freddy Chef himself before I touch another haybox meal!

"Here's your Swiss Steak, boiled potato and mixed veg plate that's been steaming and re-steaming as it bounced along the backroads of Gagetown...Enjoy!" No thanks. Freddy's sure do bung a fella up, but one good Big Mac after the Ex and you're right as rain!!

Never mind if this post is out of the ordinary for me, the Doc gave me some Percocet....nuff said.

Cheers

[meni0n]

I prefer box lunches to hay boxes.

[Scott [4]]

The box lunches that used to come out of Aldershot were the best I ever had, Gagetown's........sucked. Don't know what Aldershot is like for messing now since the changes.....