Author Topic: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread  (Read 224902 times)

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Offline Patrick H.

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Re: Africa in Crisis- The Merged Superthread
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2003, 19:21:00 »
Would be appreciated, Don. What is the name of the book?

Padraig, I am looking for any view. You can‘t particularly understand fully what is going on until you see it from as many perspectives as you can. IMHO. I bet it‘s a good dinner to - compared to my beans and oreos.
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Offline MarkOttawa

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War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2006, 09:03:35 »
A round-up guest-post at Daimnation!:
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008459.html

Mark
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Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline Dare

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Re: "Somalia: War with Ethiopia on Tuesday?"
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2006, 20:18:25 »
A round-up guest-post at Daimnation!:
http://www.damianpenny.com/archived/008459.html

Mark
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Comment by Queensman:

Quote
“The Americans are simply not prepared to listen to anyone else’s point of view,” one diplomat complained angrily. “They have made their mind up.”..

You see, the Europeans always listen to everybody and never make their mind up.

That is called sophistication.
I like that comment. I hope Ethiopia does not back down.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: "Somalia: War with Ethiopia on Tuesday?"
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2006, 16:13:14 »
Game on:

http://strongconservative.blogspot.com/2006/12/somalia-ethiopia-at-war.html

Quote
Somalia-Ethiopia At War

Somalia's Islamic fascist government declared that it was now at war with Ethiopia. The Somalian government is now known as the Union of Islamic Courts after a civil war with rival forces that has raged for years. Ethiopia is a largely Christian country.

Ethiopia sent forces into Somalia not long ago to halt the advance of Islamic forces, although it denies these actions. Now, "Fresh heavy fighting is reported near the weak Somali government's Baidoa base, amid fears conflict could plunge the entire Horn of Africa into crisis."(BBC)

Somalia's Deputy Defence Minister Salad Ali Jelle told reporters in Baidoa that 71 Islamic fighters had been killed and 221 injured so far during clashes in three locations. But in Mogadishu, UIC official Sheik Mohamud Ibrahim Suley claimed his fighters had killed 70 fighters, mainly Ethiopian troops.

This appears to be another fulfillment of Samuel Huntington's prediction of "bloody borders" where Islam and Christianity (or Buddhism) meet. Such is true in many other parts of Africa, Asia and Europe like Chechnya, Bosnia, Sudan, and Thailand.

Ethiopia has admitted to having some military trainers in Somalia, but our correspondent says that as he drove to the airport in Baidoa on Wednesday, he was stopped by a huge convoy of Ethiopian military armour.
The United Nations estimates that at least 8,000 Ethiopian troops may be in the country backing the government while regional rival Eritrea has deployed some 2,000 troops in support of the Islamic group. (Id)
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Beadwindow 7

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War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2006, 16:11:51 »
Quote
Ethiopia warns it losing patience as Somalis clash
Fri Dec 22, 2006 3:14pm ET
By Hassan Yare

BAIDOA, Somalia (Reuters) - Ethiopian tanks rolled to the battlefront on Friday as Somali Islamists and Somalia's pro-government troops pounded each other with artillery and rockets in a fourth day of clashes.

In its first detailed response to the fighting that has killed dozens and wounded hundreds, Addis Ababa said its patience was running out and demanded the Somali Islamic Courts Council (SICC) stop all "hostile anti-Ethiopian activities".

"The situation in Somalia has turned from bad to worse," said a statement from Ethiopia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. "Ethiopia has been patient so far. There is a limit to this."

The U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan and the Security Council denounced the fighting and urged the interim government and Islamists to resume peace talks.

Ethiopia has said it would make public any intention of war against the Islamists, who already view it as a fait accompli.

The Islamists said they would send ground troops to attack en masse on Saturday, as opposed to fighting from a distance with heavy weapons as the two sides have done so far, ignoring a European peace initiative.

"Our troops have not started to attack. From tomorrow the attack will start," Islamist deputy spokesman Ibrahim Shukri told a news conference.

More on link:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-12-22T201401Z_01_L2248305_RTRUKOC_0_US-SOMALIA-CONFLICT.xml&WTmodLoc=IntNewsHome_C2_worldNews-1
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Offline Mr.Newf

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2006, 16:12:50 »
Can't be good at all.
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Offline Yrys

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2006, 16:20:08 »
Timeline: Ethiopia vs Somalia

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6159735.stm

Quote
Ethiopia and Somalia's Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) are on war footing.
 The BBC New website logs the two countries troubled relationship.
Louvre website

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Offline Yrys

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2006, 17:25:52 »
 Thousands flee as war escalates in Somalia

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa/12/22/somalia.ap/index.html

Quote
MOGADISHU, Somalia (AP) -- Ethiopian attack helicopters and tanks
 headed for battle Friday as fighting raged for a fourth day between Somalia's
Islamic militia and the country's secular government, witnesses and a
 government official said.

Tens of thousands of Somalis fled their homes as the Ethiopian-backed
government used artillery to push back Islamic fighters who had advanced
 on the regime's only stronghold, Baidoa. Islamic forces who have declared
 they want to bring the whole country under Quranic rule said the latest
fighting had been started by the government but now they would launch
their own attacks.
Louvre website

"Happiness is beneficial for the body, but it is grief that develops the powers of the mind."  Marcel Proust

Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2006, 19:12:56 »
Soooo umm.. whats going ot happen now??? The UN isn't even able to put very many troops (or at least equipped ones) down in Sudan for humanitarian, and now in roughly the same area andother disaster is unfolding. NATO isn't going to be able to do anything the UN isn't, so are we all going to sit and watch it happen on CNN and CTV, or is someone sitting behind a desk actually going to do something this time?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2006, 19:15:36 »
Look south......way down south......what do you see?  Know anything about the South African Army?
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Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2006, 19:28:25 »
Look south......way down south......what do you see?  Know anything about the South African Army?

This is a serious question, Im not trying to sound sarcastic, but do you really think that they would throw themselves in the middle of it all knowing for a fact that they would become a target of the Islamic Militia?
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Offline career_radio-checker

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2006, 19:32:23 »
Look south......way down south......what do you see?  Know anything about the South African Army?

Yah I'd be leaning in that direction too George. Chances are you won't see any NATO or Western led Peacekeeping mission in Ethiopia or Somalia (again). Colonialism has left a really sour taste in African mouths, who have come to blame caucasians for all their problems of starvation,  corruption, ethnic tensions, health problems etc on us. They don't want a 'White' army setting foot in certain African states (A very bold and racy statement, I know, but just look at how Suddan only allowed an all African force to 'patrol' Darfur. The only caucasions there are observers). Sounds like a job for another UN sanctioned African Union mission for which South Africa could be a major contributor.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 19:35:13 by career_radio-checker »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2006, 19:36:02 »
This is a serious question, Im not trying to sound sarcastic, but do you really think that they would throw themselves in the middle of it all knowing for a fact that they would become a target of the Islamic Militia?

They may not have to throw themselves into it.  It may come to them.  In fact it most probably will come to them.  The only question is when.
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Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2006, 19:51:48 »
Do you think that if they do end up taking a handfull of casualties they would end up leaving the way the US did in 93  (i hate using that as an example.. it was just the best one i could think of at the time).?


70
« Last Edit: December 22, 2006, 20:08:59 by midget-boyd91 »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2006, 19:55:17 »
You have lost me.  If they are fighting on their borders, it is not the same as fighting half way around the world.  They can't pack up and go home.  They already are home and are fighting to protect their home.  Casualties will not be a factor.
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Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2006, 19:56:30 »
You have lost me.  If they are fighting on their borders, it is not the same as fighting half way around the world.  They can't pack up and go home.  They already are home and are fighting to protect their home.  Casualties will not be a factor.
I was making reference to the earlier post about the South African army.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2006, 20:00:29 »
I am talking about the South African Army.  There is not too much in the way of land and distance between Somalia and South Africa.  Once the violence spreads, South Africa will have a hard time not being involve.
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Offline uncle-midget-Oddball

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2006, 20:05:03 »
Once the violence spreads, South Africa will have a hard time not being involve.
I dont think that the violence is going to spread that far. If it spread into too many nations like Malawi which are full of NGOs (and i mean packed full) there would be too much of an outcry and it would be any nation that could deploy would.
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Offline Thorvald

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2006, 20:06:50 »
As I recall the French Foreign Legion recently deployed to Ethiopia at the request of their government (according to a Military Channel special), anyone know if they are still there?

I'll try to dig up some info.
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Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2006, 22:44:52 »
Sine the FFL has had a garrison on the border with Somalia and Ethiopia I would suspect that LOs are in Ethiopia, as in the past.
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2006, 23:01:49 »
Soooo umm.. whats going ot happen now??? The UN isn't even able to put very many troops (or at least equipped ones) down in Sudan for humanitarian, and now in roughly the same area andother disaster is unfolding. NATO isn't going to be able to do anything the UN isn't, so are we all going to sit and watch it happen on CNN and CTV, or is someone sitting behind a desk actually going to do something this time?

First off.......The UN cannot put troops into the Sudan because the Sudanese gov will not authorize it. A small contingent from the African Union is there doing what it can.

As for your NATO comment well, the UN failed to deliver in the FRY but looks to me like NATO succeeded where the UN failed.

Why do we need to do somwthing about this in the first place ?  These two countries seem to have decided that they have money to fight each other rather than feed and look after their population.  Why should we risk our collective butts considering how our last attempt at helping turned out.

Offline Jay4th

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2006, 23:41:54 »
George,  The South African National Defense Force is not the SADF of pre 1994.  Their policies regarding assistance to outside nations and their bold practice of pre-emptively fighting wars before they reach South Africa is gone too.  Admittedly I only searched for a couple hours on the net after seeing" Blood Diamonds" but I doubt they even have the capability anymore. They can't even protect thieir own farmers from attacks from within.
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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2006, 00:37:04 »
Just in case anybody is wondering here are the links to the concerned countries on the CIA world-fact-book, the military info is a bit thin but it's better than nothing.
South Africa: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/sf.html#Military
Ethiopia: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/et.html
Somalia: https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/so.html

Offline 3rd Horseman

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2006, 11:53:33 »
As for your NATO comment well, the UN failed to deliver in the FRY but looks to me like NATO succeeded where the UN failed.


History correction - The UN won the war in Bosnia and Croatia after hard fought battles in summer/fall 95. The war ended in Oct 95, NATO as IFOR arrived in Jan Feb time frame 96 when the war had already ended.
Sanctuary is as hard to find and as difficult to walk on as a razors edge

Offline warspite

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Re: War beginning in the horn of Africa?
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2006, 12:23:48 »
Why do we need to do something about this in the first place ?  These two countries seem to have decided that they have money to fight each other rather than feed and look after their population.  Why should we risk our collective butts considering how our last attempt at helping turned out.
This is a good question. Why should we?  Sure there's the typical well the horrors of war must be stopped and we must now go and stop them. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating wars sufferings as unimportant. But don't we always intervene when this stuff happens... anywhere in the world. Perhaps we should just let Africa stew for a decade or so and then move in to clean up? You know, let them blow off some steam rather than the white man coming back to tell them to stop it and be good.