Author Topic: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels  (Read 8571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ostrozac

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 26,120
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 635
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2017, 06:15:57 »
Is ADATS a good candidate for this? Or is it too short range as a reliable AS weapon?

The ADATS missile is probably overkill for the kind of AD threat we are most worried about: Russian/Iranian/Whoever UAV. You'd probably want a mixed gun/missile system like the one of the old USMC LAV-AD.

Offline SeaKingTacco

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 104,105
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,349
  • Door Gunnery- The Sport of Kings!
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2017, 06:26:41 »
ADATS is dead. There are no more missiles. No one makes them any more.

Better to go with some sort of modern gun/missile combo, netted to a sensor.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 87,124
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,461
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2017, 07:38:14 »
Guys lets be real, the government isn't killing any deal.  The review is announced and will never actually happen.

Offline jmt18325

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 20,075
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,127
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2017, 12:02:18 »
Guys lets be real, the government isn't killing any deal.  The review is announced and will never actually happen.

It might very well happen - it will just end with the continuation of the deal.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 87,124
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,461
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2017, 12:02:52 »
It might very well happen - it will just end with the continuation of the deal.

Pretty much  ;D

Online GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 204,300
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,866
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2017, 12:07:46 »
I wonder now if we should ban the sale of CC. Horrible things have happened because someone misused it.

When are we going to stop this perpetual whining because some nervous nelly has a hair up their ***.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Online ballz

    ...

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 99,576
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,960
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2017, 22:44:13 »
http://www.janes.com/article/71612/export-lav-700-enters-production

Ou, I get a little... excited... seeing that there are no side-bins to be ripped off every time I need to blaze a trail through the woods.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 424,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,334
  • Crewman
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2017, 23:06:41 »
Ou, I get a little... excited... seeing that there are no side-bins to be ripped off every time I need to blaze a trail through the woods.

My source mentioned that these have a lot of "chrome and plastic" on them.  I highly doubt they would last long in our troops hands.   [;)
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 129,237
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,367
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2017, 23:08:11 »
Not to mention the GoC isn't in a position to buy a ton of new vehicles to make up for production losses if the deal with KSA was crap canned.  They can't even afford to buy what they need to replace anticipated equipment like ships and fighters.  If they make any noise it will be like a fart, all smell with no substance.

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 181,790
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,155
  • Freespeecher
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2017, 23:22:41 »
The idea of purchasing new LAVs for ourselves to make up for a potentially killed deal with the KSA is interesting to say the least. One other way to figure out how many LAV 6.0 hulls to build might simply be to count up the various micro fleets of TLAVs, Bisons, Coyotes, etc that we have. Over the years I have seen various figures suggesting we should have purchased @ 1000 LAV's to replace the various vehicle fleets we had (the highest figure I recall was @ 1400), so the figure Infanteer came up with is in the ballpark when added to the existing fleet of @ 400 or so.

Given that the government has committed to increasing military spending by 70% in order to get closer to the 2% GDP spending we are committed to through NATO, the idea that we "can't afford" it seems a bit ludicrous. Indeed, once you take the logistical streamlining by having only one fleet family as the basis of the fleet of vehicles then you should come out slightly ahead in terms of O&M, not to mention lower unit costs by building them assembly line fashion and getting economies of scale.

Sadly this is just a fantastical vision given the extreme difficulty we have getting boots and other very simple. low tech equipment to the troops.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 11:00:44 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 129,237
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,367
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2017, 23:40:33 »
Ah, just because it makes sense to streamline vehicles AND save money...

Even though we're supposed to be increasing the budget, I'll believe it (all the ship's and aircraft we really need) when I see it.  If my part of the procurement pie area is any indication, money is still tight.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 397,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,192
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #36 on: July 30, 2017, 12:06:17 »
Guys lets be real, the government isn't killing any deal.  The review is announced and will never actually happen. come up with the conclusion desired by The Bosses.
FTFY  ;D
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 32,450
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,391
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2017, 14:01:35 »
Ah, just because it makes sense to streamline vehicles AND save money...

If the LAV 6 became the basis for almost all non heavy armour combat vehicles in our innovatory in one way or another, the saving from the streamlined logistics chain, and maintenance/spare parts would be significant I believe.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline medicineman

  • Well stuck into my new job and thoroughly enjoying it.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 131,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,593
  • In Arduis Fidelis
    • Fed By The Firehose
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2017, 17:14:31 »
Ah, just because it makes sense to streamline vehicles AND save money...

Hey now, you know the motto of the GOC and DND - "If it makes sense, do the exact opposite (after a lengthy Royal Commission or expensive feasibility project says to do the sensible thing)."

Now, I might pay attention to the headline if it read something along the line of "Canadian Armed Forces personnel observing (or helping) Saudi Forces combat test new armoured vehicles...are they safe for Canadians?" or words to that effect.  Otherwise, it sounds like someone is trying to make this into a "Soldiers.  In the desert.  With guns." sort of thing, at least to me.  We sold them the stuff with the expectation that they might be used in anger - I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of those things like when PET Sr. sold a CANDU reactor to another country under the condition of it not being used for nuclear weapons research (which I doubt he sent anyone to verify).

 :2c: for what it's worth.

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 424,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,334
  • Crewman
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2017, 17:43:46 »
........  We sold them the stuff with the expectation that they might be used in anger - .

Apparently, the ones sold with all the chrome are mainly intended for military parades.   >:D
+300
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline jollyjacktar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 129,237
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,367
  • My uncle F/Sgt W.H.S. Buckwell KIA 14/05/43 22YOA
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2017, 18:15:48 »
 :rofl:

Offline medicineman

  • Well stuck into my new job and thoroughly enjoying it.
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 131,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 6,593
  • In Arduis Fidelis
    • Fed By The Firehose
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2017, 21:11:25 »
Apparently, the ones sold with all the chrome are mainly intended for military parades.   >:D

...in the places they've just conquered  :nod:

MM
MM

Remember the basics of Medicine - "Pink is GOOD, Blue is BAD, Air goes in AND out, Blood Goes Round and Round"

I may sound like a pessimist, but I am a realist.

Offline RCPalmer

  • Member
  • ****
  • 9,335
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 136
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2017, 09:49:18 »
Hey now, you know the motto of the GOC and DND - "If it makes sense, do the exact opposite (after a lengthy Royal Commission or expensive feasibility project says to do the sensible thing)."

Now, I might pay attention to the headline if it read something along the line of "Canadian Armed Forces personnel observing (or helping) Saudi Forces combat test new armoured vehicles...are they safe for Canadians?" or words to that effect.  Otherwise, it sounds like someone is trying to make this into a "Soldiers.  In the desert.  With guns." sort of thing, at least to me.  We sold them the stuff with the expectation that they might be used in anger - I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of those things like when PET Sr. sold a CANDU reactor to another country under the condition of it not being used for nuclear weapons research (which I doubt he sent anyone to verify).

 :2c: for what it's worth.

MM

It is clearly more than the expectation that the vehicles be used "in anger".  We have an arms export control regime in place precisely to keep weapons out of the hands of states with a history of human rights abuses, and this specific concern was raised throughout the approval process.  Now, we are in a position where two successive governments have elected ignore this process, and prioritize the economic imperatives. 

With regards to CANDU reactors and the Indian nuclear weapons program, that was a highly embarrassing incident which should serve as a cautionary example...just like this case.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 99,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,726
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2017, 10:19:39 »
My source mentioned that these have a lot of "chrome and plastic" on them.  I highly doubt they would last long in our troops hands.   [;)

I suspect our troops will take better care of them, then the current customers, just watch a few of the Houthi Rebel videos of how Saudi troops respond to being attacked.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 86,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,708
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2017, 10:31:02 »
Only idiots couldn't see this coming.

If you sell someone weapons, you should expect them to use them when they get involved in a war.

To have different expectations is simply ridiculous.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 397,605
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,192
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2017, 12:08:53 »
... If you sell someone weapons, you should expect them to use them when they get involved in a war ...
There you go, making sense again - wherever will THAT get us?
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 209,657
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,573
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2017, 17:00:35 »
Only idiots couldn't see this coming.

If you sell someone weapons, you should expect them to use them when they get involved in a war.

To have different expectations is simply ridiculous.

My thoughts exactly.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 99,770
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,726
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2017, 17:16:51 »
Radical Islamists, killing radical Islamists of a different sect, hmmmmm struggling to see why we care.

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 193,420
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 5,355
  • that's how we roll in redneck land
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2017, 18:47:20 »
Radical Islamists, killing radical Islamists of a different sect, hmmmmm struggling to see why we care.

Yup, varmint on varmint crime, nothing to see here, move along.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline gryphonv

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 7,865
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 291
Re: Saudis sending Canadian-made LAVs to combat Yemeni Rebels
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2017, 20:36:18 »
Yup, varmint on varmint crime, nothing to see here, move along.

Why not provide weapons to both sides to speed it along? We can ask the US for tips on how to do it...