Author Topic: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)  (Read 18910 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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This will be interesting to follow:

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/calgary/john-ridsdel-hostage-trudeau-1.3487367

What has the Trudeau Government done, or plans on doing, about this case that has been put forward to them in NOVEMBER 2015?  We hear all about the plans to bring in 300K migrants, mostly unskilled; but nothing about Canadians held hostage by "TERRORISTS".  I know that SECURITY is an issue in these matters, but there has not even been a hint of acknowledgement by the Government about these Canadians.  Is this another Chretienism: "Ignore it and the problem will go away."?

- mod edit to adjust thread title to fit latest events -
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:59:31 by milnews.ca »
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Re: Politics in 2016
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2016, 11:46:36 »
... I know that SECURITY is an issue in these matters, but there has not even been a hint of acknowledgement by the Government about these Canadians ...
True, but not by just this government, other than a "The Department of Foreign Affairs said the federal government is aware of reports that Canadians were kidnapped in the Philippines and is "pursuing all appropriate channels to seek further information." " right after it happened (and I guess shared with the Government of Canada as well) in mid-to-late September.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 16:15:11 »
This, from the Bankgok Post ...
Quote
Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau confirmed early Tuesday that the decapitated head of a Caucasian male recovered Monday night in the southern Philippines belongs to one two Canadians taken hostage by Abu Sayyaf militants in September.

Mr Trudeau identified the victim as John Ridsdel, 68, of Calgary, Alberta. He pledged his government will work with the government of the Philippines and international partners to pursue those responsible for this "heinous act."

Two men on a motorcycle left Ridsdel's head, placed inside a plastic bag, along a street in Jolo town in Sulu province and then fled, Jolo police chief Supt Junpikar Sitin said ...
... and this from the PM:
Quote
“I am outraged by the news that a Canadian citizen, John Ridsdel, held hostage in the Philippines since September 21, 2015, has been killed at the hands of his captors.

“Canada condemns without reservation the brutality of the hostage-takers, and this unnecessary death. This was an act of cold-blooded murder and responsibility rests squarely with the terrorist group who took him hostage.

“The Government of Canada is committed to working with the Government of Philippines and international partners to pursue those responsible for this heinous act and bring them to justice.

“On behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, I would like to express my deepest condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Ridsdel. They have endured a terrible ordeal, and this is a devastating moment for all of them. Our thoughts are with them as they come to terms with this loss, and I would ask that the media respect their privacy at this difficult time.

“The Government of Canada’s first priority is the safety and security of its citizens. The Government of Canada will not comment or release any information which may compromise ongoing efforts or endanger the safety of the remaining hostages.”
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 16:59:08 »
Anyone who believes nothing was being done about this is wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes the bad guys win.

When Canadian nationals are kidnapped overseas there are people whose job it is to work the file, but in most cases we will never hear about it and for good reasons.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 19:39:09 »
A bit more detail ...
Quote
... Gar Pardy, former head of consular services at the department of foreign affairs, now known as Global Affairs Canada, said governments always say they will not negotiate with terrorist groups and foreign criminals who kidnap their citizens. “But the simple rule is: you always pay,” he said. “It’s as simple as that.”

There was reason for hope. Earlier this month, Abu Sayyaf released an Italian missionary taken in a separate kidnapping after receiving a ransom of $630,000. So why not Ridsdel?

Former Ontario premier Bob Rae, who was friends with Ridsdel, confirmed that he had been working with the family to try to secure his release. Appearing on CTV’s Power Play program, Rae said the government was “very directly involved,” but that the kidnappers refused to lower their demands.

“A ransom was paid for (the Italian captive), but it was nowhere near the amounts of money that continued to be bandied about (for Ridsdel),” he said. “It’s been an extremely frustrating and very, very difficult situation for the families to navigate.”

Rae, who also served as federal interim Liberal leader, said the government has a policy of not paying directly for a Canadian’s release, which he described as a “principled” position that it will not be directly involved in paying any ransom.

But Pardy said the reality is much more complicated in that the government may not be cutting cheques to militants or terrorist groups, but it isn’t completely hands-off either.

“Your objective is to get your person released unharmed, and sometimes you have to leave others to fill in the blanks,” he said. “You may not pay directly, but you pay through intermediaries.” ...
“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2016, 22:34:57 »
I just find it very odd that Canadian media was having a heyday over Mohamed Fahmy; demanding to have the government "do more" for his release and "do more" for the return of Omar Khadr. Media outlets demanded to know exactly what the Govt was doing and how much it was involved in returning these two to Canada.

However...

When these two gentlemen got captured, it seemed only one article was published stating they were captured, and now one to say that there had been a murder.

Nothing to say that the GoC was aware and working on it, and no media pressure demanding more be done and more info be given to the public. Nothing.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2016, 22:48:41 »
State vs non-state actors.  It's easy to put public pressure on a government; not so easy to pressure a terrorist group.

See also Lang and Fowler.
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Offline Pieman

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2016, 06:43:22 »
I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2016, 07:38:28 »
When these two gentlemen got captured, it seemed only one article was published stating they were captured, and now one to say that there had been a murder.
I call partial BS on that.  Google News seems to suggest there were far more two articles out there (looking just between October of last year and March of this year), especially when videos were released

On the other hand, though, what was the ratio of Canadian vs. foreign media coverage?  Poke around the hits from Google News, and draw your own conclusions. 

Nothing to say that the GoC was aware and working on it, and no media pressure demanding more be done and more info be given to the public. Nothing.
To be fair to both the currently-ruling Liberals & the previously-ruling Conservatives, do you think you'd see/hear everything being done behind the scenes while things were happening?  Here's what was said, for example, in October of last year:
Quote
... Canada’s Foreign Affairs Department said in an e-mailed statement that “the Government of Canada will not comment or release any information which may compromise continuing efforts and risk endangering the safety of Canadian citizens abroad.” ...

Meanwhile,  some of the latest ...
I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.
Ideally, yes, but I'm also more than okay with those already in the fray doing the deed.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 10:18:36 by milnews.ca »
“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

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Tony Prudori
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Offline Haggis

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 10:57:01 »
I hope they send in a certain group of ours to hunt these people down. Canadians should be the ones pulling the trigger on these men as an answer to their actions.

And violate the sovereignty of another state?  Politically, it would be better for Filipino SOF and/or police to do the deed.  If we sent in our folks, and things went badly, that would be a major political coup for the bad guys and a major blow to our government.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 11:50:46 »
The government does not have a lot of great options on this one. The previous government managed to work their magic with the Bob Fowler file. My gut tells me the new folks don't have the same expertise.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 12:04:06 »
The government does not have a lot of great options on this one. The previous government managed to work their magic with the Bob Fowler file. My gut tells me the new folks don't have the same expertise.

You do realise that there are teams in place for this sort of thing.  Likely many of those that worked on the Fowler case were working on this one.  Also different groups and different circumstances.  Some have insinuated that the Bob Fowler kidnappers were paid the ransom and the this current one was not.  But who knows.  I don't think this has anything to do with which government is in place.  Canada's official position on this is pretty clear. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 12:32:10 by Remius »
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 12:08:26 »
I don't care who does it, I just hope they get the iron and copper delivery they're begging for sooner rather than later.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 13:18:35 »
Having seen some of our Filipino Brothers in Arms, I'm sure they are quite capable of exacting retribution for us while saving the remaining hostages if and when they can locate then and equally importantly are let off their leash by their own political masters
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2016, 14:23:12 »
Here's a piece that includes a bit on the politics behind this happening a couple of weeks before a presidential election in PHL, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act:
Quote
Canadian Hostage Beheaded in Philippines by Muslim Extremists
By JIM GOMEZ, Associated Press

The Philippine military came under increased pressure Tuesday to rescue more than 20 foreign hostages after their Muslim extremist captors beheaded a Canadian man, but troops face a dilemma in how to succeed without endangering the remaining captives.

Abu Sayyaf gunmen beheaded John Ridsdel on Monday in the southern province of Sulu, sparking condemnations and prompting Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to pledge to help the Philippines pursue the extremists behind the "heinous act."

"Canada condemns without reservation the brutality of the hostage takers and this unnecessary death," Trudeau told reporters. "This was an act of cold-blooded murder and responsibility rests squarely with the terrorist group who took him hostage."

Ridsdel's head, which was placed in a plastic bag, was dumped by motorcycle-riding militants Monday night in Jolo town in impoverished Sulu, a densely forested province about 950 kilometers (590 miles) south of Manila, where the Abu Sayyaf and allied gunmen are believed to be holding 22 foreign hostages from six Western and Asian countries.

It's a politically sensitive time for troops to carry out major offensives, at the height of campaigning in a closely fought race among four contenders in the May 9 presidential election. President Benigno Aquino III and opposition politicians have had differences over the handling of the Muslim insurgency and the social ills that foster it.

"The pressure on the armed forces is really immense," said Julkipli Wadi, who has conducted extensive studies on the Muslim secessionist conflict in the south.

The underfunded military has to contend with escalating territorial disputes in the South China Sea while dealing with Muslim and Marxist rebellions that have endured through several presidencies, fueled by the poverty, neglect and desperation that have not been tamed by political leaders, Wadi said.

A large-scale offensive could displace many villagers and draw attention to the longstanding security and social issues in the vote-rich south, homeland of minority Muslims in the largely Roman Catholic nation.

That could play to the advantage of Rodrigo Duterte, the tough-talking city mayor from the south who has emerged as the front-runner in the presidential race by a lofty promise to end crime in six months and restore law and order. Aquino has endorsed another candidate, Mar Roxas, whose platform focuses on continuing the president's anti-corruption drive and economic reforms. All the presidential candidates condemned the beheading.

The Philippine military and police said "there will be no letup" in the effort to combat the militants and find the hostages, even though they have had little success in safely securing their freedom. Many hostages were believed to have been released due to huge ransom payments.

"The full force of the law will be used to bring these criminals to justice," they said in a joint statement.

About 2,000 military personnel, backed by Huey and MG520 rocket-firing helicopters and artillery, are involved in the manhunt for the militants, who are believed to be massing in Sulu's mountainous Patikul town, military officials said.

While under pressure to produce results, government troops have been ordered to carry out assaults without endangering the remaining hostages, including in the use of airstrikes and artillery fire, a combat officer told The Associated Press by cellphone from Sulu. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters.

Amid the offensive, Brig. Gen. Alan Arrojado resigned Tuesday in Sulu as commander of an army brigade "due to conflict of approach in addressing the Abu Sayyaf threats" in the province. Arrojado did not elaborate.

In past militant videos posted online, Ridsdel and fellow Canadian Robert Hall, Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad and Filipino Marites Flor were shown sitting in a clearing with heavily armed militants standing behind them. In some of the videos, a militant aimed a long knife at Ridsdel's neck as he pleaded for his life. Two black flags with Islamic State group-like markings hung in the backdrop of lush foliage.

The four were seized from a marina on southern Samal Island and taken by boat to Sulu, where Abu Sayyaf gunmen continue to hold several captives, including a Dutch bird watcher who was kidnapped more than three years ago, and Indonesian and Malaysian crewmen who were snatched recently from three tugboats.

Ridsdel was killed after the militants failed to receive a huge ransom demand by a Monday deadline. A police official said the killing of five and wounding of about 16 Abu Sayyaf gunmen in a military assault three days before the beheading may have angered the extremists and helped lead them to decide to kill him in revenge.

In Canada, Ridsdel was remembered as a brilliant, compassionate man with a talent for friendship.

"He could bridge many communities, many people, many situations and circumstances and environments in a very gentle way," said Gerald Thurston, a lifelong friend of the former mining executive and journalist who grew up with him in Yorkton, Saskatchewan.

Thurston said Ridsdel is survived by two adult daughters from a former marriage.

The Abu Sayyaf began a series of large-scale abductions after it emerged in the early 1990s as an offshoot of a separatist rebellion by minority Muslims in the southern Philippines.

It has been weakened by more than a decade of government offensives, but has endured largely as a result of large ransom and extortion earnings. The United States and the Philippines have both listed the group as a terrorist organization.
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Offline Pieman

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 20:22:26 »
Quote
And violate the sovereignty of another state?  Politically, it would be better for Filipino SOF and/or police to do the deed.  If we sent in our folks, and things went badly, that would be a major political coup for the bad guys and a major blow to our government.

I'm more thinking that our group would go there with permission to 'assist' the Filipino gov in tracking down this group. I don't think that is unheard of...unfortunately I also realize it's not likely to happen.
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"Brigadier General quits post after Canadian beaheading"
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2016, 06:58:06 »
This from PHL media ...
Quote
The Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) announced that 501st Infantry Brigade commander Brigadier General Alan Arrojado has relinquished his post effective Wednesday. Arrojado was replaced by Col. Jose Faustino, said AFP spokesperson Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla.

The former is a member of the Philippine Military Academy Class of 1984.

The 501st Infantry Brigade is presently based in Sulu and is one of the units helping in the ongoing operations against the Abu Sayyaf Group and other lawless elements.

Arrojado used to be the concurrent commander of Joint Task Group Sulu before being replaced by 1st Infantry Division commander Major Gen. Gerardo Barrientos last April 5.

“Brig. Gen. Arojado has served with distinction as brigade commander of the 602nd Infantry Brigade and 501st Infantry Brigade for a total period of two years and years months. In the last 18 months he led the campaign against the KFRGs (kidnap-for-ransom groups) in the Island of Jolo,” Padilla added.

Army officers usually serve a minimum of one year and six months in major positions to complete their billet requirements.

However, sources claimed Arrojado opted to step-down from his post after “conflict of approach (in) addressing the ASG threat in Sulu.”

The latter’s replacement come in wake of Canadian John Ridsdel’s beheading by the ASG during their April 25 deadline ...
“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2016, 10:11:41 »
Anyone who believes nothing was being done about this is wrong. Unfortunately, sometimes the bad guys win.

When Canadian nationals are kidnapped overseas there are people whose job it is to work the file, but in most cases we will never hear about it and for good reasons.

Bingo.

Too many people thinking that if they aren't hearing about it then it's not happening.  Thing is, if the government and agencies involved told the public --- they'd also be telling the bad guys.  And, there are still hostages whose lives are at stake here.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2016, 11:14:59 »
 :goodpost:

EXACTLY!
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2016, 15:49:26 »
Meanwhile, the PM has expressed "outrage". What a bad-***.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2016, 16:10:22 »
Meanwhile, the PM has expressed "outrage". What a bad-***.
I guess it's hard to have it both ways:  when the PM says not much, folks complain about "WTF's Canada doing?!?!?", and if the PM says too much, folks complain about "WTF's with the lack of OPSEC?!?!?!"

To be a bit partisan, this is now Team Red's problem to help solve, no question, but this started on Team Blue's watch, and I can't find too many complaints (around here, anyway) about what they said about the kidnapping:
Quote
... Canada’s Foreign Affairs Department said in an e-mailed statement that “the Government of Canada will not comment or release any information which may compromise continuing efforts and risk endangering the safety of Canadian citizens abroad.” ...
That bad *** enough for you?
“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

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Re: "Brigadier General quits post after Canadian beaheading"
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2016, 18:53:30 »
This from PHL media ...

The Philippine armed forces, while quite numerous, are stretched mighty thin and have a large number of hotspots to contend with, excluding the gigantic monster which is China.  I would like to think that if their public position is "we got this",  then at least in private they are hopefully asking for whatever assistance they deem necessary. (money, equipment, ISR, special forces, internet intelligence etc.) and, we must give it to them NQA.  No person or organization in the world should feel safe if they lop off the head of a Canadian, and it should not matter at all why that Canadian was taken hostage and killed. In cases like this, proportionate, painful and lasting revenge is a "must", not a "should".

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Re: "Brigadier General quits post after Canadian beaheading"
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2016, 19:19:51 »
... I would like to think that if their public position is "we got this",  then at least in private they are hopefully asking for whatever assistance they deem necessary. (money, equipment, ISR, special forces, internet intelligence etc.) and, we must give it to them NQA ...
Agreed, 120%, and if I had to bet a loonie, I'd bet that something along these lines, at some (more than one?) level, is already happening - and has been since this started in September.

Good luck & good hunting to anyone helping out  :salute:
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2016, 14:36:27 »
The latest ...
Quote
The Abu Sayyaf issued a fresh warning on Tuesday, May 3, threatening to harm 3 hostages, just over a week after they beheaded a captive.

The trio – from Canada, Norway and the Philippines – appealed for help from the Philippine and Canadian governments in a video uploaded to YouTube Tuesday and reported by SITE intelligence group, which monitors jihadist media.

"To the Philippine government: Please stop shooting at us and trying to kill us. These guys are going to do a good job of that," Robert Hall, a Canadian, said in the video.

He said the kidnappers had told him to tell his own government "to meet the demand" -- though he did not specify what the demand was.

The southern Philippines-based Abu Sayyaf announced last week they had killed a Canadian hostage, retiree John Ridsdel, as an April 25 ransom deadline lapsed.

Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad and Marites Flor, Hall's Filipina girlfriend, also pleaded with the two governments.

The video showed them sitting on the ground, beneath what appeared to be a coconut plantation, with 6 gunmen standing behind them.

The Norwegian said that "if the demand is not met we will be executed like our friend John was a few days ago".

One of the gunmen then warned Manila to heed the "lesson" of Ridsdel's killing and avoid delays in negotiations ...
More here, here and here.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2016, 13:50:28 »
Impaling people who do this might have an effect

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2016, 15:41:01 »
Impaling people who do this might have an effect
Agreed, but gotta catch 'em first ...
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2016, 20:05:31 »
Impaling people who do this might have an effect

On a pork covered pole.  Vlad Tepes style.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2016, 07:08:13 »
Lookit who's trying to help out ...
Quote
The Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) said it has been finding ways to help secure the remaining captives taken from the Island Garden City of Samal on Sept 21, 2015 as the Abu Sayyaf released another video, in which the hostages pleaded for help.

Dr Samsula Adju, chair of the MNLF's Global Roving Diplomacy and Peace Advocacy, told the Philippine Daily Inquirer on Wednesday that they have been studying what measures to take to help end the ordeal of Canadian Robert Hall, Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad, and Filipino Maritess Flor.

"We want to help in their safe release," Adju said.

But Adju clarified that the MNLF was not considering any armed confrontation with the Abu Sayyaf.

"The MNLF will try its best again to have peaceful negotiation with the ASG leadership to avoid bloodshed and misunderstanding. Negotiation is the best measure to address the peace and security problem of the province. Military option, I think, is not the solution," he said ...
More on the MNLF here.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2016, 06:36:38 »
The latest ...
Quote
Abu Sayyaf extremists in the Philippines who last month beheaded a Canadian man say they will kill another Western hostage if a multi-million dollar ransom is not paid within four weeks.

A video released by the group — whose leaders have sworn allegiance to ISIL — shows Canadian Robert Hall and Norwegian Kjartan Sekkingstad wearing orange shirts in a jungle setting, surrounded by hooded, armed men.

The men say their captors have threatened to kill at least one of them if no payment is received by June 13.

A caption on the video, carried by the terror-monitoring SITE Intelligence Group, says Abu Sayyaf is demanding 600 million pesos (US$12.8 million).*

In April, the group killed Canadian John Ridsdel after a ransom deadline passed.

Ridsdel, Mr Hall, Mr Sekkingstad, and Mr Hall’s Filipina girlfriend were abducted in 2015 from a resort on Samal island, hundreds of kilometres from Abu Sayyaf’s traditional strongholds ...

* - About CDN$ 16.7 million
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2016, 09:53:05 »
I hope they find them before the deadline and if not I hope their end is quick.  Poor bastards. 

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2016, 17:56:29 »
The latest:
Quote
The (Philippine)military stood by its focused operations to rescue the three remaining Samal captives held by the Abu Sayyaf group, who released a “final message” from the hostages on Sunday.
 
Maj. Filemon Tan Jr., spokesman of the Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom), said the military has not seen the new video yet. However, he maintained that the deadline does not factor into Wesmincom's operations.
 
“With deadlines or not, we are working to get the kidnap victims,” Tan said.
 
Tan said the ground forces continued to pursue search and rescue operation in Sulu based on the available information.
 
“Our primary concern is the rescue and safety of the kidnap victims,” Tan added.
 
The military declined to divulge any information that may affect operations such as sightings of the Abu Sayyaf group and their kidnap victims.
 
In a fresh video posted on the Intelligence group SITE Sunday, the Abu Sayyaf group sent what it said is the “final message” of the Samal island captives.
 
Canadian Robert Hall, one of the three remaining Samal Island captives, appealed to incoming president and Davao City Mayor Rodrigo Duterte and the Philippine government to coordinate with a certain woman at the Canadian Embassy for their release.
 
Hall was asking to work on their appeal “the sooner the better” for their release.
 
The Abu Sayyaf group has given June 13 as its deadline for the victims' families and governments to comply with its demand ...
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Second Canadian beheaded
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2016, 06:42:38 »
R.I.P. x 2 ...
Quote
The Abu Sayyaf group has beheaded another Canadian hostage held on a southern Philippine island after ransom demands apparently were not met.

Robert Hall was confirmed dead on Monday by a military source who spoke to Al Jazeera on condition of anonymity prior to the official announcment.

"Today Canadian kidnap victim identified as Robert Hall was beheaded by his abductor ... the Abu Sayyaf group," the military source said.

Abu Sayyaf spokesman were phoning local media on Monday noting the deadline for Hall's ranson had passed at 3pm local time and he had been killed ...
Still early reports - more here (via Google News).
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2016, 07:30:53 »
 :rage: :rage: :rage:  I hope the Philippine military find these assholes and terminate them with extreme prejudice. My condolences to the Hall family for their loss.   :salute:

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2016, 11:20:14 »
From our PM's Info-machine:
Quote
The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement on the likely death of Robert Hall:

“It is with deep sadness that I have reason to believe that a Canadian citizen, Robert Hall, held hostage in the Philippines since September 21, 2015, has been killed by his captors.

“While Canadian officials are working closely with authorities in the Philippines to formally confirm Mr. Hall’s death, we have compelling reason to believe that reports to this effect are, unfortunately, true.   

“The vicious and brutal actions of the hostage-takers have led to a needless death.

“Canada holds the terrorist group who took him hostage fully responsible for this cold-blooded and senseless murder.

“With the tragic loss of two Canadians, I want to reiterate that terrorist hostage-takings only fuel more violence and instability. Canada will not give into their fear mongering tactics and despicable attitude toward the suffering of others.

“This is precisely why the Government of Canada will not and cannot pay ransoms for hostages to terrorists groups, as doing so would endanger the lives of more Canadians.

“We are more committed than ever to working with the Government of the Philippines and international partners to pursue those responsible for these heinous acts and bring them to justice, however long it takes.

“The Government’s top priority, and my own as Prime Minister, is the safety and security of Canadian citizens.

“On behalf of the Government of Canada and all Canadians, I would like to express my heartfelt condolences to the family and friends of Mr. Hall.

“They have suffered a terrible loss, and this is a devastating moment for them. Our thoughts are with them as they mourn this tragedy. I would ask that the media respect their privacy, and allow them time to come to terms with their loss.

“Today marks yet another difficult day for Canada and for Canadians as we grieve as a nation for the loss of both John Ridsdel, who was killed on April 25, and Robert Hall.”
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2016, 21:46:46 »
:rage: :rage: :rage:  I hope the Philippine military find these assholes and terminate them with extreme prejudice.
Here's hoping ...
Quote
The beheading of a second Canadian hostage in the Philippines by ransom-seeking Abu Sayyaf extremists has prompted a major offensive by troops in the south of the country.

(...)

Following Mr Ridsdel's beheading on April 25 and Canadian expressions of outrage, Mr Aquino ordered an intensified offensive against the militants.

He plans to fly to Jolo, about 600 miles south of Manila, this week to impart a sense of urgency in containing the Abu Sayyaf.

One of the officials, a general, said Mr Aquino has made tremendous efforts to end the Abu Sayyaf's brutal presence before he steps down at the end of the month.

As things stand, however, the incoming president, the crime-busting former mayor Rodrigo Duterte, will have to take over the campaign to end the group's insurrection.
A reminder:  another hostage still in AS's hands, Kjartan Sekkingstad, may be was a permanent former resident of Canada in Campbell River, BC.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2016, 17:18:00 by milnews.ca »
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2016, 06:45:14 »
Interesting ....
Quote
Canadian officials twice rejected proposals from the Philippines government to approve rescue missions for Alberta hostages Robert Hall and John Ridsdel, says a Calgary-based security consultant claiming knowledge of the planned military interventions.

The allegation is being called “categorically untrue” by a senior Ottawa official, who denied that permission was ever sought by the Philippines government for potentially life-saving raids.

(...)

Humphrey, who founded the group Veterans for the Conservative Party of Canada and has been publicly critical of Trudeau, said even with Canada’s hard-line against negotiating with terrorists, the lives of Ridsdel and Hall could have been saved with a decisive and well-planned raid.

Humphrey said he remained in contact with senior officials with the Filipino military as they continued to train for a rescue mission early into 2016, and by March, one month ahead of the deadline for Ridsdel’s execution, the jungle hideout thought to be where the hostages were being held was confirmed by GPS trackers left in bags of money used to pay the ransom for a group of other hostages.

“In March, they were able to confirm the camp where they were being held and were pretty confident they were there,” Humphrey said. “They requested permission from Ottawa to go and the answer was ‘No.’

“In April, John Ridsdel was killed and the hostages were moved.”

Another ransom exchange of a large group of Indonesian and Malaysian citizens was made in May, Humphrey said, and a similar tactic confirmed the location of the new Abu Sayyaf jungle camp, prompting a second request to Canadian officials to launch a rescue operation.

“They requested permission to go again,” he said. “They didn’t have 100 per cent certainty they were there, but they were pretty certain.

“They were turned down again. I don’t know why the Canadian government didn’t allow Filipino marines to attempt those rescues.”

Speaking on condition of anonymity due to the ongoing hostage situation involving Flor and Sekkingstad, the senior Canadian official refuted the claim that requests for hostage rescue operations were ever made to the Canadian government.

However, there was no official comment from either the Prime Minister’s Office or the Ministry of Global Affairs about Humphrey’s claims Monday.

(...)
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2016, 06:54:10 »
Interesting ....

Especially if this story has any legs to it.  I can't see, however, a raid being turned down if one was so offered without good bloody reason.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2016, 07:53:08 »
Why the hell would they request permission from Canada, their bloody country, their bloody terrorists, kill, kill, kill?
Done, 34 years, 43 days complete, got's me damn pension!

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2016, 08:57:48 »
Why the hell would they request permission from Canada, their bloody country, their bloody terrorists, kill, kill, kill?
That's what makes me scratch my head, too.  The Phillipines has just come through an election cycle, so that may have been a factor, but that's just a WAG on my part.
Especially if this story has any legs to it.
:nod:  Right now, I'm happy to share it on the "is EVERYTHING ever in ANY media story?" basis - there must be more to it than this ...
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2016, 09:37:09 »
That's what makes me scratch my head, too.  The Phillipines has just come through an election cycle, so that may have been a factor, but that's just a WAG on my part. :nod:  Right now, I'm happy to share it on the "is EVERYTHING ever in ANY media story?" basis - there must be more to it than this ...

Seeing as Canadian citizens were the victims, I could see the Philippine authorities asking to CYA in case things went south and they were killed in the attempt, or if we already had something in play that could have been upset (negotiations for example) by an rescue attempt. 

At least the present President doesn't seem to be one who will be all panty waisted "sunny ways" in dealing with the terrorists.  They, and their support element will be hammered flat and taken out if they get a chance to strike.

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Update:  one freed ...
Quote
A Filipina held hostage by a notorious kidnapping-for-ransom gang in the strife-torn southern Philippines was released from captivity Friday, police said, a week after her Canadian boyfriend was beheaded by the gunmen.

Marites Flor was among four people abducted nine months ago by Abu Sayyaf Islamic militants based on remote, mountainous islands, who have earned millions of dollars from kidnappings in recent years.

Flor’s partner, Robert Hall, was beheaded after a ransom deadline lapsed last week, following a similar killing of the other Canadian hostage, John Ridsdel, in April.

Flor was freed in Sulu, a southern archipelago known as a hideout of the militants, the local police chief, Wilfredo Cayat, said.

Cayat did not give details on the circumstances of her release except that she was dropped off outside the house of local politician Abdusakur Tan on Jolo, the main island in Sulu.

Another politician from the area, Jesus Dureza, said he negotiated with the kidnappers on behalf of incoming Philippine president Rodrigo Duterte to win Flor’s release ...
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The latest ...
Quote
Government security forces have recovered the decaying remains of Canadian kidnap victim Robert Hall in the hinterlands of Sulu, a military official said Saturday, July 2.

Major Filemon Tan Jr., spokesperson of the Armed Forces of the Philippines' Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom), said the remains of Hall was dug up and recovered around 11:35 a.m. Saturday in the village of Upper Kamuntayan, Talipao in Sulu province.

Tan said members of the Joint Task Group Sulu (JTGS) recovered Hall’s body following information from the residents.

Tan said Hall’s body was taken to the JTGS headquarters in the village of Busbus in Jolo town for documentation and was then turned over to the Scene of the Crime Operatives (Soco) ...
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2016, 17:20:30 »
Update:  one freed ...
And a bit of closure:  the other one freed:
Quote
Ransom-seeking Abu Sayyaf extremists on Saturday freed a Norwegian man kidnapped a year ago in the southern Philippines along with two Canadians who were later beheaded and a Filipino woman who has been released, officials said.

Kjartan Sekkingstad was freed in Patikul town in Sulu province and was eventually secured by rebels from the larger Moro National Liberation Front, which has a signed a peace deal with the government and helped negotiate his release, officials said.

Sekkingstad, held in jungle captivity since being kidnapped last September, was to stay overnight at the house of Moro National Liberation Front chairman Nur Misuari in Sulu and then meet with Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte on Sunday, said Jesus Dureza, who advises Duterte on peace talks with insurgent groups ...
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2016, 08:31:50 »
Coming up next - family says they didn't do enough ...
Quote
... Bonice Thomas, Robert Hall's sister, wrote a Facebook post, criticizing the Canadian government for not doing more to stop her brother's death.

In an interview with As It Happens host Carol Off, Thomas says she understands the Canadian government's policy of not paying ransom to terrorists. But she says that shouldn't be the end of the conversation.

"I just think we need to have something other than a platitude of 'We won't pay ransom.' We need policy. We need structure to what we will do in a case like this. I strongly believe this is not a lack of ability or means. This is a lack of political will," she says.

She says if the government did do anything behind the scenes to help Hall's case, she didn't hear about it.

"To tell you the truth, I don't know what they did because we weren't informed of a lot of their movements or strategies or anything like that. But I know we had a funeral. So they didn't do all they could've done."

(...)

After Ridsdel's death, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called it an "act of cold-blooded murder." He vowed to work with the Philippines government to "pursue those responsible for this heinous act and bring them to justice."

Thomas also criticizes former Liberal leader Bob Rae for speaking publicly after Ridsdel's death. Rae was working behind the scenes with Ridsdel's family to try to secure his release. But Thomas says speaking out after his death, while her brother's life hung in the balance, was inappropriate.

"Abu Sayyaf wanted to speak to our government, and our government wasn't speaking. But then an ex-official from our government goes public.  It was a little reckless. It could've easily enraged [Aby Sayyaf]. And it quite probably endangered my brother's life."
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2016, 19:40:56 »
A bit more detail on what Canada was doing, via an Access to Information release to VICE News (like most media outlets, they don't share the entire release, so caveat lector):
Quote
The day before the deadline a terrorist group had set to behead a Canadian hostage in the Philippines, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called the Filipino president and emphasized that his government has a firm policy against paying ransoms.

Details of the 11th hour exchange on April 7 between Trudeau and Philippine President Benigno Aquino III are contained in documents obtained by VICE News through access to information and illustrate how Canadian officials worked behind the scenes to respond to the looming threat.

The kidnapping of the two Canadians, Robert Hall and John Ridsdel, marked one of the first crises of the Trudeau government. The two men, along with a Norwegian man and a Filipino woman, had been kidnapped and held hostage by Islamic State-affiliated Abu Sayyaf in the jungles of the southern Philippines. Ridsdel was executed on April 25, while Hall was killed on June 13.

According to emails regarding the call between the two leaders, Trudeau “expressed appreciation for efforts to date, that threat was credible, and that we have a firm no-ransom policy.”

While that policy may have been “firm,” Trudeau had yet to publicly acknowledge that Canada was refusing to pay the hostage-takers. It was only after Ridsdel was killed on April 25 that Trudeau publicly emphasized that policy.

Talking points provided to Trudeau before the call recommended he emphasize that the Philippines is Canada’s closest partner in Southeast Asia, thank the president’s support for Canada’s bid to join the East Asia Summit, his commitment to ending the insurgency in the southern Philippines and to countering terrorism ...
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#TrudeauGovernmentAttacked on Kidnapping response
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2016, 07:33:44 »
More detail on what the government was (and wasn't) doing behind the scenes ...
Quote
On Nov. 3, 2015, the day before newly elected prime minister Justin Trudeau was set to name his cabinet, one of the most gruesome challenges of his leadership and his government made itself known.

A terrorist organization half a world away was threatening to kill two Canadians.

In a video shot on Jolo Island in the Philippines’ Sulu Province and posted to Twitter, a man named John Ridsdel addressed the camera ...
... with some possible solutions:
Quote
The government is facing calls to review its approach to supporting families of Canadians kidnapped abroad and address alleged shortcomings in its response to the cases of two men abducted in the Philippines in 2015.

Among the recommendations is establishing a U.S.-style "fusion cell" that would improve co-ordination between government departments in the hopes of resolving hostage situations.

"Every Western country is moving towards a fusion cell approach," says Lee Humphrey, a former Canadian soldier who now works as an international security consultant.

He believes Canada hasn't done enough to adapt to an increase in international kidnappings.

( ... )

A senior government source told CBC News the government is currently completing an analysis of the Hall and Ridsdel cases, which includes interviewing family members ...
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TorStar: JTF2 was there
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2016, 08:03:38 »
Interestingly phrased - highlights mine ...
Quote
For 266 hellish nights in the clutches of the Abu Sayyaf Group, Robert Hall held out hope that Canadian soldiers were coming to the rescue.

Hall, 66, had an engineer’s mind. He was a problem-solver. He understood this was a problem for the best of the best.

The Canadians would sweep into the Philippine jungle after dark, Hall assured his fiancée and fellow captive Marites Flor. And when they come for one, they will come for all — Hall, Flor, fellow Canadian John Ridsdel and Norwegian hostage Kjartan Sekkingstad. They all had to be alert. Always. Tonight. Tomorrow.

“Every single night, Robert told me, ‘Tess, stay close. Be prepared. We have to be ready for the special forces,’” says Flor, who was dumped from a Jeep and staggered to freedom 10 days after Hall was executed in June.

Military rescues rarely work — hostages often get killed. Canadian forces cannot act independently in sovereign nations. The killing of Osama bin Laden at Zero Dark Thirty is a Hollywood rarity — and one fraught with problems.

But Hall had reason to believe: his was a family of Canadian military pedigree, from an uncle on the beaches of Normandy to a son who had served in Afghanistan.

Hall would never live to learn the heartbreaking truth: Joint Task Force 2, the jewel of Canada’s special ops command, was in the Philippines, the Star can confirm. But not in a position to strike.

A team arrived within days of the abductions, according to highly placed sources close to JTF2. They spent the next nine months on the ground without ever growing into a full-strength assault team.

The Canadian soldiers were kept on a short leash, never given the green light to team up with their Philippine special forces counterparts. And a Canadian-led rescue was never in the cards.


JTF2 teams have deployed without action before: in Africa seven years ago for kidnapped Canadian diplomats Robert Fowler and Louis Guay, and in Afghanistan for abducted CBC reporter Mellissa Fung. In those cases the hostages came home alive through negotiation.

This time, two Canadians were slain.

And JTF2, which lists hostage rescue among its core competencies, remains a unit never once given the opportunity to put these skills to the test ...
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2016, 11:17:14 »
And the key to the story is here:

Hall would never live to learn the heartbreaking truth: Joint Task Force 2, the jewel of Canada’s special ops command, was in the Philippines, the Star can confirm. But not in a position to strike.

A team arrived within days of the abductions, according to highly placed sources close to JTF2. They spent the next nine months on the ground without ever growing into a full-strength assault team.

The Canadian soldiers were kept on a short leash, never given the green light to team up with their Philippine special forces counterparts. And a Canadian-led rescue was never in the cards.


This is about what could have been expected. The Philippine forces and even more so their government would never have ceded sovereignty to a foreign force, especially from a first world country. Moreover the Philippinos would have been familiar with the area of operations and there is no reason to believe that a force of European-stock operators could have been inserted and trained to operate in a hostile environment, let along carry out the operation, without detection.

In another place under different circumstances, perhaps, but not in this case.

A little bit of sensationalism, anyone?

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2016, 07:26:10 »
And a little bit of closure ...
Quote
Malaysian security forces have killed a key member of a Philippine armed group in a shootout in waters off Sabah in Borneo, according to the Philippine military.

Abu Sayyaf commander Abraham Hamid had led the kidnapping of several foreigners from a tourist resort in the southern Philippines last year, two of whom were later beheaded.

"The death of Hamid is a big blow to the [Abu Sayyaf] as it neutralised one of the notorious bandits and will degrade their capability for spotting and kidnapping victims in the future," said Major Filemon Tan, regional military spokesperson for the Philippines, on Saturday.

Tan said Hamid had also been involved in the kidnapping of four Indonesian crewmen in April.

Two other fighters were killed alongside Hamid in the shootout with Malaysian police in Lahad Datu in eastern Sabah, he said.

(....)

In recent months, government forces have been carrying out major operations against the Abu Sayyaf, which beheaded two Canadian hostages after demands for millions of dollars were not met.

The armed group released two others, a Norwegian and Filipina, after ransoms were believed to be paid.

There have been a spate of kidnappings of Malaysian and Indonesian sailors at sea in recent months that have been blamed on the Abu Sayyaf.

While Hamid and two fighters were killed, Sabah security forces have arrested two others, Tan said.

Abdul Rashid Harun, Sabah police chief, told AFP news agency the incident was the Malaysian authorities' first direct confrontation with suspected kidnappers in the waters off eastern Sabah ...
More from Filipino media here, here and here.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2016, 09:27:19 »
Outstanding.  Hope it was a slow, painful death.

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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2016, 09:57:15 »
Outstanding.  Hope it was a slow, painful death.
Probably not, but one takes what one can get.
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Re: Cdns Kidnapped, Killed in Philippines (split fm Re: Politics in 2016)
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2016, 11:32:03 »
Probably not, but one takes what one can get.

Agreed, but I can always hope.

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Sounds like the boss has been dealt with as well ...
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Soldiers battling Abu Sayyaf in central Philippines are reported to have killed a key commander of the armed group who had been blamed for the beheadings of two Canadians and a German hostage.

Military chief of staff General Eduardo Ano said troops recovered and identified the remains of Moammar Askali, also known as Abu Rami, at the scene of the battle in a coastal village on Bohol island on Tuesday.

Five other Abu Sayyaf members were killed, along with four soldiers and policemen.

Ano said troops took the picture of Askali after his death and that captured Abu Sayyaf fighters identified the the young commander ...
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I'll bet some other wannabe has already stepped into this criminal's shoes. There never seems to be a shortage of fanatics when dealing with radical islam.
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