Author Topic: Threat of possible US Civil War  (Read 8861 times)

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Offline Jmarcha8

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Threat of possible US Civil War
« on: November 04, 2016, 17:15:14 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.


Offline Remius

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2016, 17:20:50 »
Really?  Is there some sort of intel other than the ramblings of a few extreme views that give you that idea? 

There won't be a civil war.  Maybe civil unrest in some areas or a few fringe elements doing something stupid.

Our role will be what our role is today.
Optio

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2016, 17:35:04 »
The concern is that civilian trust of both the government and authorities such as police are at a low point.  It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2016, 17:39:36 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.

Canada would be sent down south to disarm the US military & citizens and do peacekeeping operations until Neil Degrasse Tyson and General James Mattis are ready to take office.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 17:45:38 by Jarnhamar »

Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2016, 18:11:46 »
It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

Mr. Trump sent a lot of angry tweets to his followers when President Obama was re-elected in 2012,
http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/18/politics/donald-trump-rigged-vote-twitter-2012/
"We can't let this happen. We should march on Washington and stop this travesty. Our nation is totally divided!"

CNN: "Sound familiar? Trump called 2012 vote a 'total sham' "




« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 18:19:54 by mariomike »

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2016, 18:42:37 »
Adding this to provide more grist for this mill ...
Since the thread appears to be headed down the road of starry-eyed optimism, here's an interesting piece from, admittedly, a source that doesn't sound all that authoritative, but if we're willing to be a bit open minded, it's a piece that appears to quote some of the right people:

"6 Reasons Why A New Civil War Is Possible And Terrifying"

From the piece:
Quote
(...)
6.  The Beginning Looks A Lot Like Where We Are Right Now
(...)
5.  The Violence Could Start With Farms Choking The Cities
(...)
4.  The Revolution Will Plagiarize ISIS's Tactics*
(...)
3.  There Will Be Hundreds of Sides
(...)
2.  Decades of Military Spending Will Bite Us In The ***
(...)
1.  The Internet Will Make It Even Bloodier
(...)
The same source also posted this not-too-shabby summary of how ISIS/ISIL/Daesh came to be.

* - On #4, I would have softened it to "could" instead of "will", but that's just me ...
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 00:51:47 »
Most people have families to care for and jobs to do, so the best form of "Civil War" would be a vigorous dose of "Irish Democracy". Imagine large swaths of the country essential in a "work to rule" situation vis a vi their government institutions, making it difficult if not impossible for the Diktat of Washington bureaucrats or "Executive orders" to be carried out.

The mass failure of people to join Obamacare (and the leakage of people who are reacting to discovering they were taken with unusable plans, massive deductibles and rapidly escalating premiums) is a foretaste of what the real "civil war" will look like. Another interesting model could be the description of the First Intifada in the book The Sling and the Stone, where a leaderless, "bottom up" revolt using media and paper based communications, and forbidding armed conflict against the Israelis, managed to achieve victory.

So the next "Battle of Bull Run" may be snarled lines at the DMV and crowds of people doing things that inconvenience the powers that be on social media. After all, the Left has been using lawfare, the "march through the institutions", media and Political correctness to attack the American people for a generation (arguably a lot longer), so the response isn't necessarily or even obviously armed rebellion.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 01:01:00 »
The concern is that civilian trust of both the government and authorities such as police are at a low point.  It is of course now too early to tell, but it may be too early until it actually happens.

I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 11:32:32 »
I hope you are right as well.

The problem is people are feeling they are being exploited and are trying to take steps to end it. The TEA Party movement was essentially the bourgeois response, using political activism and electoral politics. Despite some rather considerable success in knocking off incumbents through the process of primaries and sweeping success in the mid terms, the politicians they elected failed to carry through with the promises to the electorate. Donald Trump's brand of nationalism and populism is the next stage, and obviously having a huge effect (and much like the Brexit, it is a huge raised middle finger to the various political, bureaucratic, crony capitalist, academic and media "elites" who control much of the wealth, power and information in modern America).

If they win today (08 Nov 2016), then they will have 4 to 8 years to assess if their concerns are being addressed. If the general feeling is "no", then we evolve past Donald Trump into some pretty scary territory. A Clinton victory simply advances the timetable.

So the real issue is how hard the "powers that be" are willing to dig in their heels. They may feel protected and insulated from the population, but then again, the various ruling parties across the Arab world probably felt secure right before the "Arab Spring" began as well. I imagine President Viktor Yanukovych wasn't too perturbed when the Maidan square protests began either...Some sort of tipping point or preference cascade against the current situation is what it takes to make things happen. At that point, we can only hope the nature of what sorts of "things happen" isn't leaving everything in flames.

Edit to add:

This is hardly new. I stopped by a local use book store and the first thing I saw in the dollar bin was "Killing Ground: The Canadian Civil War" by "Ellis Portal" (published in 1968). The blurb tells me this is a ripping yarn about the Canadians fighting against Quebec separatists, and it certainly seems SFNal to todays eyes; Units like the Queens's Own Rifles are on the Order of Battle and (if I am reading this right) at some point in the book there will be an airborne assault on Quebec City.

Civil unrest and civil war is a distinct possibility if there are truly fundamental changes in the social, political or economic conditions of a nation. I'm pretty sure the Progressives have such changes in mind with their talk of fundamental transformation, but first of all, there is a massive amount of inertia to overcome in a nation of 300 million people, and secondly, the changes in demographics, economics, technology and social structures are not running in the directions that either the Progressives or the Conservatives have foreseen or even understand.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 19:53:32 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2016, 15:46:07 »
I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

Abdullah

I am joining the Canadian Reserves so I think it would be hard for them to do.  Not that I am against serving.

Offline Jmarcha8

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2016, 23:15:29 »
I hardly think a US civil war is likely at this time. Life is to cozy for to many people in the USA. Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue. But I hardly think a large enough percent of Americans are willing to die just because Clinton or Trump get in.

Also as an American citizen, cant you be drafted? They still have that right? I suspect as a dual citizen that may be something to be cognizant of. As per Canada's role, I have no clue.. I think if Clinton gets in, we may be more pro establishment then if trump gets in.. but I have no proof to that. A civil war aint nice, I have a friend in the III% Militia down south, another friend ex military who was a pastor as well etc etc and they all think it will be business as usual after the elections with just the usual whining. I hope they are right.

Abdullah

I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Regards,

Joseph Marchand

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2016, 23:23:09 »
I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Regards,

Joseph Marchand

Oh, well I am glad you looked into it for your sake. Hopefully it is a non-issue for you and it all works out. Only reason I knew about it is because of my American Step Father, he would chat about it quite often.

Good luck getting into the reserves.

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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2016, 16:55:49 »
Yes, like someone else said, fringe elements may do idiotic things and civil unrest may ensue.

Watching the protests and reading the so called "Bird Dogging" emails on Wikileaks makes it pretty clear "who" is whipping up the fringe elements. (Note: Democrats used the term "Bird Dogging" to refer to Dems going to Trump rallies and trying to incite violence, which could then be reported on the Legacy media but spun as being done by Trump voters and supporters).

I frankly can't think of a more counter productive activity. The optics look terrible and fence sitters or people who were less receptive to the President Elect will be more likely inclined to move in his direction as a reaction against the violence rather than fall in line behind the Democrats. I'm sure working class white Democrat voters in the Rustbelt States will also take kindly to being maligned non stop as "Racists" and wallowing in "White Privilege" by the rioters as well.

However, this does follow the 3 laws of SJW's (especially 2 & 3):

SJW's always lie
SJW's always project
SJW's always double down

So go ahead Dems, and double down for the next 4 years. I'm sure you will create a groundswell of new followers, just not for the people you expect.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2016, 18:13:43 »
Are not these the same folks who were predicting violence in the face of a Trump defeat?
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2016, 19:53:43 »
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2016, 20:43:55 »
I just checked and apparently I was supposed to register for the draft.

I was born in the states to Canadian Parents (Father was naturalized), and was taken to Canada when I was 2, living here since. 

I am thirty now and apparently too old to register, which does cause some issues.  I'll have to take it up with the US Consulate to address it.


While the Selective Service System may accept a legitimate excuse that your failure to register "was not knowing and willful", the Internal Revenue Service is likely less forgiving in a failure to fulfill the obligation of every US citizen (or permanent resident) to file income tax returns regardless of their country of residence.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2016, 21:16:26 »
So go ahead Dems, and double down for the next 4 years.

Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999

There have been six Republican presidents during my lifetime. Seven counting Mr. Trump.

I can't think of a single Republican president-elect who faced protests like these before inauguration. Only Mr. Trump.

Perhaps they are more anti-Trump, than anti-Republican?

« Last Edit: November 11, 2016, 21:23:43 by mariomike »

Offline cupper

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2016, 21:37:20 »
Look, the average American really doesn't have the attention span to carry off a civil war. Come February the Super Bowl will be here, and they will all forget that there was a time before the Benevolent Supreme Leader Donald Trump, may he be blessed to rule over us for eternity. :bowdown:
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2016, 21:43:17 »
Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999


.....And these are the people who were calling Trump everything under the sun, from being Racist to being too unpredictable and a bully.  It appears they can't see their reflections in the mirror.  They called those who voted for Trump the scum of the earth and uneducated.  Looks like they are the scum and uneducated.  Most don't even have a clue of how their electorial system is set up, and that is why they are whining and rioting.
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Offline mariomike

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2016, 22:04:27 »
Most don't even have a clue of how their electorial system is set up, and that is why they are whining and rioting.

As an outsider, neither do I. My math is pretty rusty, but there is some explanation in the National Post.
http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/andrew-coyne-dont-blame-clinton-for-losing-she-got-the-most-votes

"By the time all of the votes are in, several days hence, her lead is projected to exceed two million."

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2016, 22:40:35 »
It seems that Soros funded leftists are behind the unrest. Funny how the left complained about Russian interference.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/11/soros-funded-orgs-behind-violent-anti-trump-protests-across-america/


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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2016, 22:52:08 »
Wall Street Journal says, "Anti-Trump Protests Likely to Continue".
http://www.wsj.com/articles/anti-trump-protests-turn-violent-in-oregon-1478885999

There have been six Republican presidents during my lifetime. Seven counting Mr. Trump.

I can't think of a single Republican president-elect who faced protests like these before inauguration. Only Mr. Trump.

Perhaps they are more anti-Trump, than anti-Republican?
Perhaps it's because the rise of the overgrown children who've never been denied, never lost anything, who've been given recompense for merely existing rather than striving and never had their narrow views challenged is a more recent phenomenon.  I can't recall there being such a thing as "safe spaces" "trigger warnings" "SJWs" "campus garbage babies" etc, even during the most recent Republican administration.  The phenomenon seems to have coalesced purely during the Obama years.

Let them riot.  They'll only reinforce the choice made by the pro-Trumps and make those sitting on the fence wonder.  Besides, rioters in Portland Oregon destroying Portland Oregon, one of the bluest places in the USA is like scoring repeated own goals while beating up your own goal keeper with a rock filled sock.  It makes no sense and everyone with two brain cells who's watching the action can figure out that the protestors are utter cretins.  All of that merely cements Trump's victory and shows why he won.  If they had a smidgen of intelligence, they would figure it out.  The fact that they don't speaks volumes  :facepalm:

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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2016, 23:28:14 »
Let them riot.  They'll only reinforce the choice made by the pro-Trumps and make those sitting on the fence wonder.  Besides, rioters in Portland Oregon destroying Portland Oregon, one of the bluest places in the USA is like scoring repeated own goals while beating up your own goal keeper with a rock filled sock.  It makes no sense and everyone with two brain cells who's watching the action can figure out that the protestors are utter cretins.  All of that merely cements Trump's victory and shows why he won.  If they had a smidgen of intelligence, they would figure it out.  The fact that they don't speaks volumes  :facepalm:

I wouldn't put the riot and the damage on the protesters, but more on the usual suspects. The few agitators who's only reason for being is to create mayhem and anarchy. These are the same group of brain dead morons that show up at the G20 summits and set fires, smash windows, loot stores and overturn cars. They are few in number, but their actions far outweigh anything the majority of peaceful protesters want to achieve.

This can't be attributed to Clinton backers or organizers. These f$@kwads were around long before this campaign season, and will go on well past the next few election cycles.

My beef with the millennials is that they want to detach themselves from the establishment and find alternate means of creating change, be it sit-ins like the Occupy movement, or use social media to influence change. Once they clue in that the only effective means of making change is to use the electoral process, look out. Once they realize that they outnumber Boomers, and will have a long period of control, we will be looking at a different world. But they need to get their heads out of their @sses first.
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2016, 23:39:08 »
With the possibility of a U.S. Civil War more likely now than usual, would Canada be involved in any way and what role would they be involved in?

I'm asking because I am a dual citizen and looking to join the Canadian reserves.

They had their Civil War 1861-5... some say they haven't stopped fighting it yet, though.
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Re: Threat of possible US Civil War
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2016, 00:17:09 »

My beef with the millennials is that they want to detach themselves from the establishment and find alternate means of creating change, be it sit-ins like the Occupy movement, or use social media to influence change. Once they clue in that the only effective means of making change is to use the electoral process, look out. Once they realize that they outnumber Boomers, and will have a long period of control, we will be looking at a different world. But they need to get their heads out of their @sses first.

Until, hopefully,  they realize that there's no free lunch and no one is going to feed and shelter them. They'll get jobs or start a business and start to pick the lock that the socialist academia has put on their brains.

Like the Gen X & early Y's that gave us PEOTUS.  8)
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