Author Topic: National crisis: fentanyl & other super-opiate overdoses  (Read 20272 times)

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Offline Chispa

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National crisis: fentanyl & other super-opiate overdoses
« on: November 16, 2016, 13:51:03 »
3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home: Like they say, drug abuse will sooner or later kill U.



Three people are dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses in a home in north Winnipeg.

"This is a tragic situation," said Winnipeg police spokesman Const. Rob Carver.

Police say they were called to check on someone in the home on Petriw Bay, in the Inkster Gardens neighbourhood.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/3-people-dead-from-suspected-fentanyl-overdoses-at-winnipeg-home/ar-AAkney4?li=AAggNb9


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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 13:54:55 »
So?   :dunno:
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Offline Colin P

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 14:17:00 »
Staggering when you thing that OD deaths in BC alone last year was almost double of the number of people killed with rifles in the whole of the US in the same time.

Offline Inspir

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 14:55:51 »
The problem that we are seeing on the street with Fentalyn (and starting to become more common: Carfentanil) are people who are unknowingly consuming it as it is being mixed with other drugs such as cocaine, meth and in some cases mariguanna. It can literally take a dose the size of a speck of sand of Carfentanil to send you into respiratory arrest if you don't have a tolerance for it.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 15:01:46 »
Let's not overstate the case, Colin: Number of death from overdose in BC, for Jan1, 2016 to Sept 30, 2016, according to the BC coroner site: 555.

Number of death by shooting in the USA in 2015: 13,618 according to "Gun Violence Archive USA".

I am willing to believe that there are errors in the numbers from both sites, but not to the extent you would need to support your position.  :nod:

Offline Colin P

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2016, 15:04:36 »
Plus we have had around 3 first responders have partial OD from coming into contact with it unknowingly.

OBGD, As you will note I said "death by rifle(all types including assault rifles" from either CDC or FBI as I recall.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2016, 15:11:43 »
The problem that we are seeing on the street with Fentalyn (and starting to become more common: Carfentanil) are people who are unknowingly consuming it as it is being mixed with other drugs such as cocaine, meth and in some cases mariguanna. It can literally take a dose the size of a speck of sand of Carfentanil to send you into respiratory arrest if you don't have a tolerance for it.

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Offline Journeyman

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 15:23:44 »
If the OP wanted to note any  sort of relevance for a military-related site, he could have mentioned that the Russians used aerosol opioids to take out the Chechen terrorists during the 2002 Moscow theater crisis.  Clutching at straws, but still better than tossing "3 Winnipeg druggies OD'd" out there.

I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2016, 15:26:55 »
If the OP wanted to note any  sort of relevance for a military-related site, he could have mentioned that the Russians used aerosol opioids to take out the Chechen terrorists during the 2002 Moscow theater crisis.  Clutching at straws, but still better than tossing "3 Winnipeg druggies OD'd" out there.

Maybe that's why the OP posted in Radio Chatter: "Off topic discussions not relating to the Canadian Army."
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2016, 15:32:48 »
Maybe that's why the OP posted in Radio Chatter: "Off topic discussions not relating to the Canadian Army."
Then perhaps adding another word or two to explain why it was posted would have proven beneficial......
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Chispa

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2016, 20:07:14 »
Then perhaps adding another word or two to explain why it was posted would have proven beneficial......

Fair question, why the OP posted without elaborating, a few words would have proven beneficial; figured many here knew, it’s really old news. While going off-line saw the newsflash trending, therefore posted on the fly, with one eye watering, / shut, note the good eye was irritated. You are looking for more substance; the numbers, considering population are of some concern: Drug related deaths in Canada per year have reached 47,000 and that number is growing. https://canadiancentreforaddictions.org/drug-related-deaths-in-canada/

PDF Deaths Involving Fentanyl in Canada, 2009–2014..
http://www.ccsa.ca/Resource%20Library/CCSA-CCENDU-Fentanyl-Deaths-Canada-Bulletin-2015-en.pdf


Opioid overdose deaths continue to rise in Canada despite removal of OxyContin.

Opioid overdose deaths continue to rise across Canada, forcing federal and provincial authorities to respond to this growing epidemic.

In Ontario alone, these drugs have killed nearly 2,500 people between 2011 and 2014. “Right now, the one that we’re seeing the greatest increase in is the use of Fentanyl,” said Minister of Health Jane Philpott. “That’s a big concern for us.” This heightened concern comes after the 2012 removal of OxyContin from the Ontario Drug Plan, a move many believed would reduce the amount of opioid overdose deaths in the province.

http://www.citynews.ca/2016/03/07/opioid-overdose-deaths-continue-to-rise-in-canada-despite-removal-of-oxycontin/


13 Canadians hospitalized a day due to opioid overdose, report finds.

Misha Gajewski, CTVNews.ca Published Wednesday, November 16, 2016 10:51AM EST Last Updated Wednesday, November 16, 2016 12:20PM EST

Adding evidence to the mounting public health crisis, an analysis showed that 13 people were hospitalized every day in Canada between 2014 and 2015 because of opioid poisoning.

Seniors accounted for a quarter of hospitalized overdoses.

The report found that in 2014-2015 4,779 people across Canada – or 13 a day on average – were hospitalized or taken to the emergency department because of an opioid overdose.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/13-canadians-hospitalized-a-day-due-to-opioid-overdose-report-finds-1.3163256


Hey, It’s like Twitter, CNN, I just recycled the news and passed it on, that’s what Radio Chatter is about; n’est-ce pas?


C.U.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 20:41:38 by Chispa »
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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2016, 21:11:38 »
Let's not overstate the case, Colin: Number of death from overdose in BC, for Jan1, 2016 to Sept 30, 2016, according to the BC coroner site: 555.

Number of death by shooting in the USA in 2015: 13,618 according to "Gun Violence Archive USA".

Actually, what Colin said was "people killed with rifles" not all types of shootings.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2016, 21:13:58 »
I lost a good buddy from my regiment and tour a year back to this stuff. He'd gone SOFCOM after deployment, medically released with PTSD, we thought he was doing alright, then boom, went down hard one morning with an overdose and died in hospital. This stuff is so deadly in great part due to other street drugs being laced with it, and people have no idea what they're taking.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2016, 21:57:32 »
More reason why the CAF should drug test members and not that BS blind drug test crap.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2016, 23:20:23 »
More reason why narcotics should be legal.... We spend an unfathomable amount of money arresting and imprisoning harmless people as part of a (failing) drug war that causes the types of things mentioned below...

The problem that we are seeing on the street with Fentalyn (and starting to become more common: Carfentanil) are people who are unknowingly consuming it as it is being mixed with other drugs such as cocaine, meth and in some cases mariguanna. It can literally take a dose the size of a speck of sand of Carfentanil to send you into respiratory arrest if you don't have a tolerance for it.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2016, 00:06:52 »
More reason why narcotics should be legal.... We spend an unfathomable amount of money arresting and imprisoning harmless people as part of a (failing) drug war that causes the types of things mentioned below...

That's a tremendously flawed viewpoint. There's nothing 'harmless' about the people distributing drugs like Fentanyl, Cocaine, Heroin, etc. Presupposing we took an 'everything is legal til proven otherwise' start point, these are substances that would never pass tests for human consumption outside of supervised clinical settings. There isn't a way to safely, responsibly abuse these drugs outside of a clinically supervised thereapeutic setting. They are *designed* to be as addictive as possible, and to affect people in ways completely incompatible with normal responsible functioning as members of society. Even in a clinical setting many end up hooked and dependent and will commit crimes to pay for addictions. It even happens with things that can be purchased legally over the counter, such as painkillers with codeine.

Some substances - marijuana jumps to the top of the list - are currently illegal and shouldn't be when all factors are reasonably balanced. As I sit here sipping a rum and coke, I see no reason why there ought to be a legal difference between myself, the guy outside having a smoke, or the guy smoking or vaping a bit of weed. I've practically never seen someone become violent when just using marijuana alcohol's another story. Commercial tobacco is much more dangerous from a public health standpoint. If we wiped the slate and went for a fresh start from first principles, tobacco as it's currently packaged and sold in cigarettes probably wouldn't make the cut, or if it did the taxes would be tremendous.

But for the hard synthetic drugs, again wit the exception of careful clinically supervised painkillers (still overprescribed), the redeeming qualities are not there sufficient to overcome the public health concerns. No government could in good conscience legalize the peddling of methamphetamine or fentanyl. These drugs are *inherently* harmful, both to the user, and to the communities that addicts prey on.

Addiction is primarily a health issue, though with some criminal fallout. Trafficking, however is inherently predatory, almost inevitably violent, and is inherently harmful to the society it exists within, without any redeeming qualities whatsoever. I am not a tough on crime' tye, but I beleive we shoul dbe much more punitive on higher level drug trafficking, and much more belligerent about going after assets so it doesn't pay. We need to fight demand as much as possible with a sensible public ealth approach to addiction, and we need as much as possible to fight the attractiveness of dealing. Some of this, certainly, has to come with offering viable economic alternatives. Jobs and education have got to be there and we need to try to catch more of these kids earlier before they get too far into that.

Just because an effort against something has not resulted in victory, does not mean that the optimal idea is to give up and to concede defeat to something terrible. We haven't given up on fighting spousal abuse or rape, even though thsoe are perennial issues that we will never make go away. We don't stop trying jsut because there's always that next person who's gonna do something heinous.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2016, 00:49:10 »
More reason why narcotics should be legal.... We spend an unfathomable amount of money arresting and imprisoning harmless people as part of a (failing) drug war that causes the types of things mentioned below...

I work in an ER, and that is the worst idea possible. You would not believe the number of overdoses we see on prescription medication. If currently illicit drugs were legal, there is absolutely no evidence things would get better, but plenty evidence that they would get worse. As dangerous as prescription drugs are, the illicit ones are far worse.
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2016, 01:22:08 »
That's a tremendously flawed viewpoint. There's nothing 'harmless' about the people distributing drugs like Fentanyl, Cocaine, Heroin, etc. Presupposing we took an 'everything is legal til proven otherwise' start point, these are substances that would never pass tests for human consumption outside of supervised clinical settings. There isn't a way to safely, responsibly abuse these drugs outside of a clinically supervised thereapeutic setting. They are *designed* to be as addictive as possible, and to affect people in ways completely incompatible with normal responsible functioning as members of society. Even in a clinical setting many end up hooked and dependent and will commit crimes to pay for addictions. It even happens with things that can be purchased legally over the counter, such as painkillers with codeine.

Some substances - marijuana jumps to the top of the list - are currently illegal and shouldn't be when all factors are reasonably balanced. As I sit here sipping a rum and coke, I see no reason why there ought to be a legal difference between myself, the guy outside having a smoke, or the guy smoking or vaping a bit of weed. I've practically never seen someone become violent when just using marijuana alcohol's another story. Commercial tobacco is much more dangerous from a public health standpoint. If we wiped the slate and went for a fresh start from first principles, tobacco as it's currently packaged and sold in cigarettes probably wouldn't make the cut, or if it did the taxes would be tremendous.

But for the hard synthetic drugs, again wit the exception of careful clinically supervised painkillers (still overprescribed), the redeeming qualities are not there sufficient to overcome the public health concerns. No government could in good conscience legalize the peddling of methamphetamine or fentanyl. These drugs are *inherently* harmful, both to the user, and to the communities that addicts prey on.

Addiction is primarily a health issue, though with some criminal fallout. Trafficking, however is inherently predatory, almost inevitably violent, and is inherently harmful to the society it exists within, without any redeeming qualities whatsoever. I am not a tough on crime' tye, but I beleive we shoul dbe much more punitive on higher level drug trafficking, and much more belligerent about going after assets so it doesn't pay. We need to fight demand as much as possible with a sensible public ealth approach to addiction, and we need as much as possible to fight the attractiveness of dealing. Some of this, certainly, has to come with offering viable economic alternatives. Jobs and education have got to be there and we need to try to catch more of these kids earlier before they get too far into that.

Just because an effort against something has not resulted in victory, does not mean that the optimal idea is to give up and to concede defeat to something terrible. We haven't given up on fighting spousal abuse or rape, even though thsoe are perennial issues that we will never make go away. We don't stop trying jsut because there's always that next person who's gonna do something heinous.

Your post outlines all of the reasons it should be legal. All of the things you point out as reasons that narcotics shouldn't be legal are a *result* of narcotics being illegal. Do you think all of the messed up drugs that you are talking about would even exist if the government hadn't stopped law-abiding citizens from private exchange? Do you think cocaine would be laced with fentanyl if you could go buy it at a storefront where someone's livelihood and all his assets are on the line? Cocaine-use is ancient, literally ancient... The US government made it illegal in 1914, the price skyrocketed as there was now a black market being run by thugs, and within 50 years we had crack...

Do you think someone who has done no harm to any other human being should be imprisoned and have their life ruined? You mention drug traffickers, but we lock people up simply for *possessing* drugs. You can't call something a health problem and then claim to treat people for it by throwing them in jail and actually making the health problem worse. I also think its immoral to lock someone up for consenting adults participating in private exchange, but let's just talk about mere possession for now.

*A different point which I don't wish to explore tonight, but the idea that certain recreational drug use is okay but others deserve to thrown in jail for it is logically inconsistent and terrifying that you think its up to you to decide for others.

I work in an ER, and that is the worst idea possible. You would not believe the number of overdoses we see on prescription medication. If currently illicit drugs were legal, there is absolutely no evidence things would get better, but plenty evidence that they would get worse. As dangerous as prescription drugs are, the illicit ones are far worse.

You are both making an assumption that because it is illegal, less people are doing it and if it were legal more people would. I would like to see evidence of that. It's essentially the same old fear-mongering about firearms from the anti-gun lobby, that if we legalize more firearms law-abiding people are just going to go out and start shooting people on a whim. Hands up who would try heroin tomorrow if it was legalized?  :crickets:

However, there is evidence that things would get better despite your absolute assertion. Portugal decriminalized possession of all narcotics and contrary to what you both are so sure would happen, the results were fantastic. Drug-use has declined, drug-induced deaths have decreased, HIV rates among drug-users has gone down... and while its far from absolute proof, it does debunk this fear-mongering, and hopefully someday it will allow people to open their eyes and realize there may be better ways than using violence against people to control their behavior.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 01:35:42 by ballz »
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Offline ballz

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2016, 01:28:33 »
Just because an effort against something has not resulted in victory, does not mean that the optimal idea is to give up and to concede defeat to something terrible. We haven't given up on fighting spousal abuse or rape, even though thsoe are perennial issues that we will never make go away. We don't stop trying jsut because there's always that next person who's gonna do something heinous.

Who "conceded defeat to something terrible?" I'm offering more ways to win than any one, it seems. What's the definition of insane again?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2016, 01:33:28 by ballz »
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2016, 08:42:13 »
Quote from: Brihard
Some substances - marijuana jumps to the top of the list - are currently illegal and shouldn't be when all factors are reasonably balanced. As I sit here sipping a rum and coke, I see no reason why there ought to be a legal difference between myself, the guy outside having a smoke, or the guy smoking or vaping a bit of weed. I've practically never seen someone become violent when just using marijuana alcohol's another story. Commercial tobacco is much more dangerous from a public health standpoint. If we wiped the slate and went for a fresh start from first principles, tobacco as it's currently packaged and sold in cigarettes probably wouldn't make the cut, or if it did the taxes would be tremendous.
I'm inclined to feel the same way when I think about pot vs alcohol (and being a Whiskey&Coke fan myself).

I came across this article randomly and thought it was pretty interesting and brings up a seldom discussed issue with pot (IMO).
I won't quote from the article because it's a bit of a tangent but it discusses sexual abuse among weed pickers out west. Some of it sounds pretty brutal.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/in-secretive-marijuana-industry-whispers-of-abuse_us_57cefd7ee4b0f831f705be3f

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2016, 08:45:52 »
The problem that we are seeing on the street with Fentalyn (and starting to become more common: Carfentanil) are people who are unknowingly consuming it as it is being mixed with other drugs such as cocaine, meth and in some cases mariguanna. It can literally take a dose the size of a speck of sand of Carfentanil to send you into respiratory arrest if you don't have a tolerance for it.

I would have to disagree with that....the problem is it only takes 2mg of fentanyl to kill you. When the dealers mix it up there is no consistent measure of fentanyl in each dose.

The picture posted shows how much Heroin and Fentanyl is needed to overdose......

Having said that I am sure any other drugs mixed in wont help either.


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Larry
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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2016, 08:49:31 »
Thank you to those who have actually contributed substantive content.  Seriously.
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Inspir

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2016, 08:55:53 »
I would have to disagree with that....the problem is it only takes 2mg of fentanyl to kill you. When the dealers mix it up there is no consistent measure of fentanyl in each dose.

The picture posted shows how much Heroin and Fentanyl is needed to overdose......

Having said that I am sure any other drugs mixed in wont help either.


Cheers
Larry

I've seen this picture. But I was alluding to Carfentanil not Fentanyl.

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: 3 people dead from suspected fentanyl overdoses at Winnipeg home
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2016, 09:01:17 »
I've seen this picture. But I was alluding to Carfentanil not Fentanyl.

That's 100 times more fatal the Fentanyl.....

Scary


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Larry
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