Author Topic: The Power of "The Press"  (Read 7961 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 19:24:52 »
CNN the news organization that uses pictures of video games to show apparent evidence of Russian hackers?

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Offline Lumber

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 19:41:24 »
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/cnn-uses-video-game-image-in-fake-russian-hacking-story/

Who cares what picture they showed. Any News outlet, not just CNN, would be incapable of accurately and effectively describing how hacking is done, let alone provide an accurate "background photo" (and that's all it was; a "computer/techy" picture in the background). Who cares what picture they used.
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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 19:59:42 »
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/cnn-uses-video-game-image-in-fake-russian-hacking-story/

Is this where you are referring us to?

"The website spends most of the day complaining about Barack Obama and liberals, and the occasional flirtation with outright white supremacists."
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit



« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 20:20:15 by mariomike »
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 20:26:48 »
Who cares what picture they showed. Any News outlet, not just CNN, would be incapable of accurately and effectively describing how hacking is done, let alone provide an accurate "background photo" (and that's all it was; a "computer/techy" picture in the background). Who cares what picture they used.

Some people care more about accuracy than others.  Also some might consider using a video game picture to push a story involving two world super powers and rigged elections as a bit unprofessional.  Consider it credibility.

Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 20:54:46 »
"rationalwiki" is just a snotty snarky progressive take on information.
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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 21:00:03 »
"rationalwiki" is just a snotty snarky progressive take on information.

You guys are way ahead of me.  I had never heard of Gateway Pundit till now. OMG :)

« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 21:08:08 by mariomike »
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Offline Lumber

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #32 on: January 10, 2017, 21:08:41 »
Some people care more about accuracy than others...

And those people avoid "The Gateway Pundit".
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2017, 21:19:05 »
And those people avoid "The Gateway Pundit".

Uh huh. You got me there,  I grabbed the first link that popped up.  Plenty others out there.  I'll get back on track.

The whole fake news stuff might even be deserving of its own thread.  Liberals aren't above falling news like having  Trudeau memorize a wiki page about quantum computers then asking himself the question at a press release lol
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 23:22:54 by Jarnhamar »

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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 06:06:23 »
The whole fake news stuff might even be deserving of its own thread.
Funnily enough, we already have several such a threads - here and here.

Standby for a bit of a merge ...
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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 06:31:01 »
... I grabbed the first link that popped up.  Plenty others out there.  I'll get back on track ...
There's other outlets carrying similar stories:

So it comes down to who do you trust.  Over time, as Humphrey Bogart said earlier in the thread, you learn to judge sources of information by their track record.

Looking over Gateway Pundit, it's easy to see what glasses it wears:  clearly anti-Democrat, pro-Republican/Trump.  Just like there's no shortage of clearly pro-Democrat, anti-Republican/Trump sites/blogs/pages out there.  Using Chris Pook's elephant image, each outlet chooses chich part of the elephant to look over, thereby also choosing which element of the elephant doesn't make the cut. 

So it comes back to the fact that the more widely/broadly you read, the fewer blind spots you get - and that includes reading more than just what you agree with.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 11:52:20 »

... that includes reading more than just what you agree with.
But that is hard on my blood pressure and has to carefully managed.   ;)
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 11:58:04 »
Actually - that brings up an interesting point:  the possible correlation between an "activist" media outlet and declining revenues.

I enjoy reading good articles from writers across the political spectrum.   I resent paying for them if I know that I am going to be contributing to efforts to thwart my political preferences.  Why would I, a Conservative-pro-tem, pay money that is going to end up, directly or indirectly, contributing to the Liberal campaign?

The more activist, the more divorced from the general market.
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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 16:40:38 »
But that is hard on my blood pressure and has to carefully managed.   ;)
But at least you're transparent about that -- and it shows you've tried if you know the effect  ;D
I enjoy reading good articles from writers across the political spectrum.   I resent paying for them if I know that I am going to be contributing to efforts to thwart my political preferences.  Why would I, a Conservative-pro-tem, pay money that is going to end up, directly or indirectly, contributing to the Liberal campaign?
Very good point.  The balance between knowing in detail what the other team is saying and not actively supporting their cause is an individual choice.  Would I pay for access to Stormfront or rabble.ca?  No.  Does that mean these are the only places to find out what each side is saying?  Not true -- there's all sorts of free access out there to the whole panoply of political thought (and both left & right each have their own list o' good & bad sources).  The usual "caveat lector" applies to all sources, of course.

The more activist, the more divorced from the general market.
But, referring back to your useful elephant graphic, they may be looking at parts of the elephant nobody else is because of their activism.  If all media choose what they share and choose what they leave out, seeing that process with activist media is useful.  Also, if you want to take the "know your enemy" philosophy seriously, it helps you better understand what glasses they're wearing when it comes time to counter their arguments/assessments. 

For example, from my own geeky obsession, I read a lot of stuff about Ukraine from outside agencies/NGO's, from the Ukrainian and separatist governments, and Ukrainian, separatist and Russian media.  Sometimes, something pops up in only one set of media, making one ask, "so, what's this about?"  Could be fake news, could be something the other side ignores, could be partly true, whatever.  Sometimes, in the old Soviet tradition, someone says, "hey, lookit what a great job we're doing to deal with x" when there's been no other media coverage of an x problem - hmm ... I know not everyone has the time to pick fly poop from ground pepper, but even if I'm in a hurry, I check out a few key outlets from all sides to get something triangulating into a "central tendency truthiness".

The word picture I like to use is a mosaic made up of lots of little tiles - or, if you're higher tech than me, a digital image made up of pixels.  The more tiles/pixels you can see, the better idea you have of what the picture looks like.  Not all information tiles/pixels are created equal, but the more tiles/pixels you can see, the better the aggregate result is.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 17:35:48 »
...
But, referring back to your useful elephant graphic, they may be looking at parts of the elephant nobody else is because of their activism.  If all media choose what they share and choose what they leave out, seeing that process with activist media is useful.  Also, if you want to take the "know your enemy" philosophy seriously, it helps you better understand what glasses they're wearing when it comes time to counter their arguments/assessments....

Agreed that they may have useful intel.  From sources to which I would not have access, ordinarily.  Insofar as I consider them the "enemy" and have no desire to support their cause through paying them, are you effectively counselling me to "hack" them through third party sites like Realclearpolitics and indulging in searching via "incognito" pages? 
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Re: Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 18:41:17 »
The whole fake news stuff might even be deserving of its own thread. 

I remember hearing this story when I was nine years old. To me, it's like a jewel that changes colour as you look at it from different directions.

The Kitty Genovese Story Was the Prototype for Fake News
http://observer.com/2017/01/the-kitty-genovese-story-was-the-prototype-for-fake-news/
Our need for tidy narrative is hardly recent

Did The New York Times try to smear the good city of New York? The World Fair was going on.  How many people moved away, or stayed away, because of the way this incident was reported? We will never know. 

The progenitor of this myth was A.M. Rosenthal, the New York Times editor who gave Kitty’s story prime front-page acreage. He and reporter Martin Gansberg crafted a story that was so compelling, many forgot to check the facts. That would remain true for decades, as the story entered the narrative of American urban despair.

Mr. Rosenthal's grave marker has only five words: "He kept the paper straight."

On the other hand, I believe there has been a fair amount of recent "feel good" revisionism about this story in books and documentaries.

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between.





« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 20:00:35 by mariomike »
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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2017, 20:09:29 »
Agreed that they may have useful intel.  From sources to which I would not have access, ordinarily.  Insofar as I consider them the "enemy" and have no desire to support their cause through paying them, are you effectively counselling me to "hack" them through third party sites like Realclearpolitics and indulging in searching via "incognito" pages?
As one-on-one advice, if you're not willing to pay for access, I wouldn't advise hacking in, given all the alternative ways to get at approximately the same information/viewpoint/spin out there. 

As for me, I wouldn't hack in.  For my individual consumption of media, I don't need the most extreme/inaccessible bits of information to shape my opinions.

That said, each individual* considering hacking in would have to weigh the pro's & con's - and be willing to face any consequences if they're breaking some rule/law. 

* - Governments doing this?  I leave it in their hands to do things within the limits of the law.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 22:32:23 »
I'm defining "hacking" broadly - as in securing access to a good or service that someone claims to own without offering remuneration.

Even if it is just equivalent to going from store to store to collect freebies intended to lure in new clients.

The point is, if newspapers and tv stations decided that they were not going to endorse a candidate or party, that they would refrain from contributing to campaigns, that they would hire a diversity of opinions, then I would have no trouble paying that outlet for their product.

I consider the Toronto Star to be an honest outlet.  It makes no pretence of neutrality. I don't read it but I admire it.

I consider the Globe, CTV and the CBC to be dishonest.  They have defined opinions and pretend neutrality.

I actually do pay for British news, of both stripes, because they are honest in there convictions.

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2017, 06:22:59 »
I'm defining "hacking" broadly - as in securing access to a good or service that someone claims to own without offering remuneration.
Same here.
Even if it is just equivalent to going from store to store to collect freebies intended to lure in new clients.
If it's freebies offered for a limited trial, without having to give a credit card #, I'm good to give it a try.  I pay for a few specialty sources (mostly think-tanky & NGO'y), and I'll donate a few bucks to sites like the Federation of American Scientists to help dig up government paperwork, but I'm still cheap hesitant about paying for access in general.
I consider the Toronto Star to be an honest outlet.  It makes no pretence of neutrality. I don't read it but I admire it.

I consider the Globe, CTV and the CBC to be dishonest.  They have defined opinions and pretend neutrality.

I actually do pay for British news, of both stripes, because they are honest in there convictions.
As others have said previously, I agree that you know EXACTLY where Brit papers come from.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 18:51:49 »
Having "borrowed" access to the American media via an incognito perusal of Realclearpolitics,  ;D I came up with this:

http://theweek.com/articles/672551/why-medias-trump-dossier-coverage-suicidal

Quote
The effect of BuzzFeed's item was not that journalists, elected officials, and intelligence agents were sharing a load of ridiculous tosh with each other, but that they were sharing something of indeterminate value. Maybe it's trash, maybe it's the smoking gun. BuzzFeed invited readers to judge for themselves.

The context for this immense error of judgment makes it worse. Earlier in the week, The Wall Street Journal's editor-in-chief Gerard Baker responded to a question about headlines or stories that report on what Trump says without attaching an assessment of its veracity by arguing, "I think it's then up to the reader to make up their own mind." Journalists lined up to condemn him on social media and across other news sites.

Readers making up their own minds?  What on earth are they thinking? 

Interestingly there was this commentary from Tim Stanley, a writer for the Daily Telegraph that I regularly read.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/11/opinions/trump-news-conference-stanley/index.html

Quote
...calling out the press is not entirely unheard of. Obama scolded reporters for doing things he didn't approve of; Nixon obsessed about the hostile liberal press. What's different about Trump is how happy he is to personalize his battles, to roll up his sleeves and jump into the fight while on live TV.

Un-presidential? Yes. Unpopular? I suspect not. The media has to accept that popular attitudes towards journalism have shifted according to partisan bias, and there are a lot of conservatives nowadays who disbelieve unfavorable reporting of Trump simply because they don't trust its source.

I suspect Tim Stanley's attitude is coloured by growing up in a rougher journalistic school than that of the US.

When was the last time that the US, or Canada for that matter, had a proper knock-down, drag-out newspaper war?
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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 19:05:14 »
When was the last time that the US, or Canada for that matter, had a proper knock-down, drag-out newspaper war?
Good question ...
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2017, 19:59:40 »
Much of the "power" that the "News" used to have was due to the limited access to competing sources of information. However it is easier to get information from different sources, either from different places (you can now click onto newspapers from the United States, Canada, the UK and anywhere else), as well as a multitude of non traditional sources.

This also allows us to quickly identify when people are manipulating the news in concert (the US Journ-O-List scandal was perhaps the first quickly identified), and watching the US media beclown itself with the unverified "intelligence" documents simply makes what little trust people may have had in the media evaporate. This is even stupider on their part since it is a close clone of Rathergate, which was also discredited relatively quickly. If you are going to collude in your attack on the incoming administration, then you need to be much smarter about it.

The other reason the power of the "press" is evaporating is people can connect without filters or gatekeepers. President Trump does not need to hold a press conference, he just tweets to his followers, and the press is in reactive mode, coming in behind the tweet. He also used this sort of direct connection with his "yuuge" rallies. Each person in a 30,000 person rally has a smartphone, so Trumps words and images are being broadcast on social media to potentially millions of people, and once again, the media can only react to this. Newt Gingrich made a very preceptive speech on "How Trump beat the Liberal Media", which bears rewatching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIe95tyHQs4

Edit to add:

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/254399/

Quote
ALL THIS AND WORLD WAR II:

● Anne Frank’s stepsister compares Donald Trump to Adolf Hitler.

—Headline, CNN.com, January 27, 2016.

● Anne Frank Center: Trump’s ‘Nazi’ quip insults Holocaust survivors.

—Headline, Yahoo News, yesterday.

Well yes, it does. But so did all of the Godwin-violating insults from the left last year comparing Trump to Hitler, which culminated nearly 75 years’ worth of such tactics by Democrats, beginning with FDR and Harry Truman. It’s not surprising that finally, as Scott Adams wrote yesterday on Trump’s “Nazi quip,” “The Master Persuader Scrambles the Frame.”

You can almost hear the left saying it: How dare the president-elect call us Nazis — only we’re allowed to call the other side Nazis! Evidently, they believed that their scorched earth tactics, so effective against first Hillary and then McCain in 2008 and Mitt Romney in 2012, would have been sufficient against Trump, and then conveniently forgotten afterwards, until needed for the next presidential election, and in the interim, Democrats would go back to pretending they’re obsessed with fairness, civility, tolerance, and unicorn flatulence. Or if Trump somehow managed to win, he’d play by Marquess of Queensberry rules in DC. Something tells me that his memory won’t be very short, and that he’ll act like a Democrat himself when it comes to getting in his enemies’ faces and punching back twice as a hard, to paraphrase a famous community organizer.

This isn’t a political culture — or media “overculture” — that I wanted to see, but it’s one that the left created and wrote the rules for long ago; and thus, to coin a phrase, chose their eventual destructor.

The final piece of the puzzle is Trump, the Alt -Right and the New American Party are using the Progressive playbook against the Progressives....
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 00:26:46 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 23:28:18 »
Thanks for the video link Thuc.

From the video there is a great read which also helps explain Trumpism.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.9rm1k0grl

I feel the CAF is inundated with IYIs also. 


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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2017, 00:57:39 »
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Re: The Power of "The Press"
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2017, 07:00:40 »
Everyone has skeletons in their closet.  No one has a perfect track record; and I think even most, if not all of us, on this board have things they would rather not be common knowledge, this if no different than politicians.

My issue with the press is the veracity with which they dig on people. It is totally dependant on their own political beliefs and not about truth above all. 

So sum up, if they are going to dig to China to get dirt on Trump I expect that they would do the same for Obama or Clinton ect.  Of course I know that will never happen.
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