Author Topic: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid  (Read 2509 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Former veterans ombudsman Pat Stogran says he is considering a bid for the federal NDP leadership.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stogran-ndp-leadership-1.4024617
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 20:03:00 »
Well. That is interesting.

Offline RocketRichard

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 21:15:39 »
Former veterans ombudsman Pat Stogran says he is considering a bid for the federal NDP leadership.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stogran-ndp-leadership-1.4024617
Good luck sir.


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Re: Politics in 2017
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2017, 06:21:07 »
If this has been posted elsewhere, Mods, please move or delete this, but ...

CBC News is reporting that Pat Stogran is considering a run for the NDP leadership.

"At the moment, he isn't a member of the NDP," the article says ...  ""It is a "huge handicap," Stogran said. "But I believe it's where I belong because their heart is the right place.""
 
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 09:59:14 »
He REALLY does not understand the foot soldiers of the NDP, that is pretty obvious.   
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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 10:04:49 »
The problem is that the NDP has been wooing 2-3 3 different lovers, the environmentalists, The LGBT and fans crowd and the unionists. Those 3 only overlap a bit all with different priorities. I suspect he will appeal to the unionist as the rank and file military used to be fairly NDPish being mostly from blue collar families belonging to unions. I would welcome a somewhat saner NDP. I suspect a saner, more Muclair like party will drive the more radical greens and LGBT types to the Greens, which might actually be a good thing for the NDP.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 12:09:29 »
I do like him and he has my respect.  I too would like to see someone like him drive the fringe idiots who inhabit the NDP to the other fringe idiot parties like Ms May's Greens.

Offline Underway

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 13:36:38 »
The first priority of socialists should be the protection of the state.  The state is more important than the individual in many versions of socialist philosophy (depending on how high up you are on the political compass).  It would be nice to see a pro-military NDP as a strong military is a strong instrument of the state.

Not to mention military procurement increases gov't spawned jobs often in unionized plants.  There are lots of wins here for the NDP if they were to just let go of their belief that a strong military means you go around using and abusing the said military power.

*edited for awkward grammar


« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 14:38:11 by Underway »

Online Colin P

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 14:07:24 »
I think historically the NDP’s CCF/CLC roots which was partly influenced by the Winnipeg General Strike and the use of troops/police to break that up is where that distrust came from. My grandfather had just returned home from the war to Winnipeg when all that happened and then helped with the founding of the CCF and the NDP and was strongly anti-military. 

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 16:22:16 »
There's a whole lot of folks who have trouble with socialists having a strong military affinity.
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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 16:29:10 »
There's a whole lot of folks who have trouble with socialists having a strong military affinity.

Especially the National type Socialists.  8).
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 21:21:32 »
Its not going to go well for him, in my opinion.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 23:31:04 »
IF he ran for leader, IF he were to win, and IF he retains a strong view of a combat purposed military (and I really do not know if that is his view anyway), the result would be an explosion of the NDP, with most of the debris landing in the Liberal party, and some of shattered glass with the Greens. The remainder would burn to the ground.  That would crown Trudeau like Putin, the untouchable leader for the rest of his natural life, but always fearful of the restless masses who have no political home.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2017, 10:10:08 »
The biggest problem with Socialism is that it runs afoul of reality in many categories. Good organization allows Socialist parties to strip mine economies and maintain the illusion for many years, but the shattered remains at the end are not pretty (i.e. Russia, Venezuela, Cambodia....). Even largely Socialistic polities underwhelm, European nations would be ranked below (often well below) US states on a GDP or per capita GDP basis.

If Pat Stogran is a good organizer, then maybe the NDP has an electoral chance, although history would seem to indicate our NDP is more of a personality driven organization (remember Jack Layton?). I rather doubt that even being a former member of the CF will give him any leverage to make the CF a higher priority in electoral politics in Canada, once again, history (and Edward) tell us we have support "a mile wide and an inch deep". (Of course Kipling knew this a century ago, read "Tommy")
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Online Colin P

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2017, 10:17:26 »
IF he ran for leader, IF he were to win, and IF he retains a strong view of a combat purposed military (and I really do not know if that is his view anyway), the result would be an explosion of the NDP, with most of the debris landing in the Liberal party, and some of shattered glass with the Greens. The remainder would burn to the ground.  That would crown Trudeau like Putin, the untouchable leader for the rest of his natural life, but always fearful of the restless masses who have no political home.

I will have to disagree, it would eat away at the Liberal left support for the moderates and force enough out of the NDP, to make the Greens viable in some ridings. So you likely see the NDP lose some seats, gain some more elsewhere, the Greens might make official party status. The Liberals will be forced to fight that flank all the time, will the CPC may end up moving a wee bit closer to centre, nibbling away on their right flank. 

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2017, 11:30:28 »
I think NDP "moderates" would be much more likely to jump to the Liberal party, in greater numbers, than the far left of the Liberal party to move to the NDP or Greens. This is exactly what happened in the last election anyway.

Watching the Conservative leadership competition, they are not going to win the next election either, unless (a) they select a very competent, moderate female leader to take on Trudeau and (b) Trudeau really screws up (or if Trump does something nasty to Canada and Trudeau cannot "fix" it.)  In any event, the NDP, with or without Stogran, are going to remain mired and paradoxically admired by worshipers of false ideologies. 
   

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 12:30:59 »
I agree the one person who should be running for the CPC is not......

Muclair showed what a switched on NDP could achieve and it is a big threat to the Liberals, however the NDP is very adept at stabbing itself in the back.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 14:27:46 »
I'm no big fan of the NDP, but am a big supporter of democracy. It's healthy to have a strong party representing the Left wing as a counter balance to the others.

Jack Layton died too soon, sadly, otherwise we may have a stronger, more diverse political landscape in Canada these days. Can Pat Stogran do what Jack did? I doubt it, but good on him for throwing his miner's hat in the ring, IMHO.

P.S. The NDP better get him a miner's hat.... he's never worked an hourly, unionized job in his life and right now his pdrsonal brang is a little too 'Management Ivory Tower Opportunist' like :)
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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 10:35:03 »
Never a fan of Jack, I have had dealings with Nathan Cullen back in the day when we were allowed and expected to speak directly with an MP's office. I thought he would have been a good choice for a leader for them.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 12:10:20 »
Interestingly,  in downtown Ottawa,  there's a Jack Layton building.  Right next door to a massage parlour.
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Re: From PPCLI to the NDP - Pat Stogran considers NDP leadership bid
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 12:21:21 »
Interestingly,  in downtown Ottawa,  there's a Jack Layton building.  Right next door to a massage parlour.

And Community Housing nearby ?
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