Author Topic: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding  (Read 3847 times)

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Offline dapaterson

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Quebec's Public Security Minister Martin Coiteux said Friday the province has asked for and will receive assistance from the Canadian Armed Forces to deal with widespread flooding as wet weather and heavy rainfall continues.



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/eastern-canada-rain-flood-warnings-1.4100856
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Offline MCG

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2017, 20:30:54 »
A few news sources are reporting ~400 soldiers in 5 squadrons are deployed out of Valcartier.  I have seen pictures of TAPV and Coyote, so I assume 12 RBC is the 2 Div IRU right now, but 5 is more sqn than I expect they have so I assume 5 RGC is at least partially out the door as well.


Offline MCG

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2017, 20:33:11 »
... but I suppose it is also possible the term "squadron" is being applied to something(s) that are actually something else.

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 20:43:31 »
There goes the budget.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Offline devil39

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 11:25:23 »
Some not so great coverage of Gatineau residents on CBC, complaining that "The Army" is too late and should have been deployed earlier.  The Army is at fault apparently.

Not the Canadian Armed Forces responsibility for the safety of citizens of Quebec or their property in the face of emergencies or disasters. 

I don't know the legislation in Quebec, however in Alberta, that responsibility belongs to Municipalities, who then ask for assistance from the Province, who can then ask for assistance from the Federal Government  Federal government assistance usually equates to CAF assets being deployed.

Watched this work quite well, close up, in multiple Manitoba floods, Saskatchewan fires, Alberta floods and fires.

Why does this never seem to work in Quebec?  Where is the breakdown?  I seem to recall the last flood event in Quebec (2011?), complaints about the Army, and it turned out that the Quebec Provincial Government asked for assistance far too late?

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 11:31:40 »
Some not so great coverage of Gatineau residents on CBC, complaining that "The Army" is too late and should have been deployed earlier.  The Army is at fault apparently.
Feel free to wade into CBC's 'comments' section ( :stars: ) and sort them out.  :pop:
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Offline Sandyson

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2017, 12:52:15 »
I suppose I'm mean-spirited, but I have little sympathy for people who buy property on a the bank of a river in a flood plain.  It's going to flood. Guaranteed. Why should tax payers pick up the bill for such folly?  I worked on recovery in the two 'floods of the century' of Riviere Saint Francois in the Eastern Townships.  The university was flooded causing serious damage to buildings and infrastructure.One old house of the university sits low and a canoe was used to enter the main floor.  After the first flood the workers recommended just bulldozing the structure after containing the oil tank spill.  The university instead rebuilt it.  The second flood came.  They rebuilt it.  We old boys are now waiting for the third flood. Hearsay has it that with the government recovery grant they could not afford not to rebuild it. The media would fry a politician for saying so, but if you build a house beside a river, a flood is your problem not the governments.

Offline Spectrum

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2017, 13:52:25 »
I suppose I'm mean-spirited, but I have little sympathy for people who buy property on a the bank of a river in a flood plain.  It's going to flood. Guaranteed. Why should tax payers pick up the bill for such folly?  I worked on recovery in the two 'floods of the century' of Riviere Saint Francois in the Eastern Townships.  The university was flooded causing serious damage to buildings and infrastructure.One old house of the university sits low and a canoe was used to enter the main floor.  After the first flood the workers recommended just bulldozing the structure after containing the oil tank spill.  The university instead rebuilt it.  The second flood came.  They rebuilt it.  We old boys are now waiting for the third flood. Hearsay has it that with the government recovery grant they could not afford not to rebuild it. The media would fry a politician for saying so, but if you build a house beside a river, a flood is your problem not the governments.

Agreed.

My old man is a little crazy, but as a kid I distinctly remember him doing terrain analysis when buying the family home. He bought in an elevated area, away from water, and got a back up power system for the sump pump just to be safe. My parents have never had to paddle through their front door, and the house is worth seven figures now to boot. Far better than the "prestige" of living by the water - at least to me.

Offline GAP

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2017, 13:55:33 »
After the 97 flood in Manitoba the gov  would not rebuild unless the buildings were raised above the 100 year flood level.
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2017, 15:38:51 »
Agreed.

My old man is a little crazy, but as a kid I distinctly remember him doing terrain analysis when buying the family home. He bought in an elevated area, away from water, and got a back up power system for the sump pump just to be safe. My parents have never had to paddle through their front door, and the house is worth seven figures now to boot. Far better than the "prestige" of living by the water - at least to me.

Thinking of this, I remember when I got posted to Gagetown and was looking to buy - found a place I really wanted in North Fredericton, but the day I showed up for my HHT, it sold.  Downer...until the realtor pulled out the 20 and 25 year flood tracings - it was between the two marks, and my last year there, the place was under water.  The place I did get was in Burton, on a nice hill, where I got to watch Hwy105 drown, including the church just kitty corner to me, not once, but twice in 4 years.

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 15:46:11 »
.... including the church just kitty corner to me
Gutsy move;  you  living that close to a church.   :whistle:


 ;D
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 16:39:35 »
In my defence, it was on the other side of the substantially large/wide St John River...about 1500m as the crow flew.  Someone was really putting their faith in a higher being by planting the church literally on the river bank  ::).

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Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 18:17:50 »
I grew up in a house that had a basement which leaked in any small rainstorm.

When I bought my first house, I set a rule...the house must be on a hill. 

As a sailor, I recognize the destructive capabilities of water, and having grown up with a leaky basement, I know all too well what happens after ingress starts.

My 2nd house was on a hill, as was our 3rd, and now that I have a waterfront property as my 4th home, I was careful to consider the flood aspect when purchasing.  The road to get to my home may end up in distress if there's a huge flood, but the water would have to rise almost 20 feet to get to my foundation.  I'm satisfied with that, considering the elevations here.

Also, as a bonus, a house on a hill generally provides better fields of fire.

:-)

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2017, 18:27:25 »

Also, as a bonus, a house on a hill generally provides better fields of fire.


Make sure you keep the vegetation trimmed back...
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2017, 19:57:47 »
I have a .30 Cal hedge trimmer....LOL
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2017, 20:29:21 »
I suppose I'm mean-spirited, but I have little sympathy for people who buy property on a the bank of a river in a flood plain.  It's going to flood. Guaranteed. Why should tax payers pick up the bill for such folly?  I worked on recovery in the two 'floods of the century' of Riviere Saint Francois in the Eastern Townships.  The university was flooded causing serious damage to buildings and infrastructure.One old house of the university sits low and a canoe was used to enter the main floor.  After the first flood the workers recommended just bulldozing the structure after containing the oil tank spill.  The university instead rebuilt it.  The second flood came.  They rebuilt it.  We old boys are now waiting for the third flood. Hearsay has it that with the government recovery grant they could not afford not to rebuild it. The media would fry a politician for saying so, but if you build a house beside a river, a flood is your problem not the governments.

I disagree.  The blame must be shared.  Different levels of government allowed development of neighbourhoods close to the water, knowing it is close to water.  There is, then, some expectation from the government that people will establish themselve in those neighbourhoods. It is part of their city/provincial planning and should be held accountable to some level.  I am pretty sure the owners will already be losing quite a bit, both immaterial and material.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2017, 21:38:43 »
@RalphGoodale

Ont Govt has requested federal support in fighting flood waters thru provision of emergency materials. Answer is of course YES!
https://twitter.com/RalphGoodale/status/861310982466961412
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2017, 00:09:53 »
For any federal government employees in the NCR, you may have the day off tomorrow, depending on where you live/work.

Offline kev994

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2017, 09:16:57 »
So fill sandbags on the side of the bridge that you are stuck on?

Offline NSDreamer

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2017, 09:37:50 »
Marlant just got put on standby to assist in NB.
Something relatively witty.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2017, 10:18:35 »
Not sure if it's a clever Photoshop but it looked/seemed legit.  Image of a soldier that CBC initially used to depict how many soldiers were deployed to the flood was a silhouette that looked a lot like a German Nazi soldier complete with SS on the helmet. Looks to be changed  now.

« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:21:31 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2017, 10:19:56 »
I drew on a map to show the areas I did not want a house and gave it to my real estate agent, I highlighted the flood area (in case of dam failure) and where most of the known geology issues are with slope failure. Pretty confident the area I am in will stay put in a earthquake. She said in 20 years no one has ever given her such instructions. There was one house I looked at on a steep bank above a creek, the foundation had cracked clean across, been repaired and cracked again, repeated again. I looked at the real estate agent and said "how nice expanding square footage and a future split level house"

Offline NavyShooter

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2017, 10:40:46 »
"Location location location" means different things to different people...

Insert disclaimer statement here....

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2017, 18:51:39 »
Just got word from my CoC that the offices in Gatineau are closed again, Tuesday 9th May.  More rain on the weekend and next week too.  This weather is going to get out of hand.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 19:51:02 by jollyjacktar »

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2017, 19:21:37 »
Not only are average citizens not grateful the military has sent more than 1600 into areas of Quebec, now one of the federal NDP MPs, Matthew Dube, wants the military to stay after the emergency is over to clean up those sandbags.
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2017, 19:21:55 »
I disagree.  The blame must be shared.  Different levels of government allowed development of neighbourhoods close to the water, knowing it is close to water.  There is, then, some expectation from the government that people will establish themselve in those neighbourhoods. It is part of their city/provincial planning and should be held accountable to some level.  I am pretty sure the owners will already be losing quite a bit, both immaterial and material.


The Globe and Mail agrees with you, Max, in an editorial, dated 8 May 17. People make mistakes, often out of greed and ignorance, as the OP said, but governments, at all levels, then encourage them to repeat the mistake, over and over again: Einstein's definition of insanity.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness
as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2017, 20:58:24 »
Not only are average citizens not grateful the military has sent more than 1600 into areas of Quebec, now one of the federal NDP MPs, Matthew Dube, wants the military to stay after the emergency is over to clean up those sandbags.

******* ingrates.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2017, 21:10:34 »

The Globe and Mail agrees with you, Max, in an editorial, dated 8 May 17. People make mistakes, often out of greed and ignorance, as the OP said, but governments, at all levels, then encourage them to repeat the mistake, over and over again: Einstein's definition of insanity.

The same thing happened with the big flood in Southern Alberta in 2013. A lot of properties wiped out should never have been built that close to the waterways, but various self-interested land developers got deals from various politicians to 'bend' the regulations.

Who paid the price? The people who'd bought from the developers.
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2017, 01:24:43 »
And the people of Gatineau, according to the CBC, are complaining that either the army isn't there at all, for them, or just made a token appearance ... One man, 79 year old Quyon resident Raymond Wilfred Bertrand, who claims to have served in the military as a young man, is quoted as saying: "We are paying the armed forces. It's all taxpayers' money. Why did they not bring them at least two weeks ago? I know they cannot protect everyone's home, but a lot of people didn't go and get sandbags because they couldn't."
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2017, 05:52:24 »
Who paid the price? The people who'd bought from the developers.

...and every other homeowner.  House insurance in Alberta went up in Alberta in 2014.
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2017, 07:54:32 »
The blame must be shared.  Different levels of government allowed development of neighbourhoods close to the water, knowing it is close to water.  There is, then, some expectation from the government that people will establish themselve in those neighbourhoods. It is part of their city/provincial planning and should be held accountable to some level.  I am pretty sure the owners will already be losing quite a bit, both immaterial and material.
Agreed -- although I wonder if people living in these areas had to sign any sort of waiver given they were in a flood plain?  Or is that only for predictable, everyday flood plains, as opposed to "once every 40 years or so" flood plains?
Not sure if it's a clever Photoshop but it looked/seemed legit.  Image of a soldier that CBC initially used to depict how many soldiers were deployed to the flood was a silhouette that looked a lot like a German Nazi soldier complete with SS on the helmet. Looks to be changed  now.


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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2017, 07:16:14 »
Who knew?    :dunno:
Quote
One way to battle future flooding: stop building on flood plains, say experts

"The municipality really doesn't have an incentive to go in and use land-use planning and building codes and communications strategies to tell people that they are at risk of flooding, particularly given that most of the revenue comes from development, it comes from property taxes." Thistlethwaite said. "So they face a real conflict of interest."

"Poor land-use planning at the local level basically goes unpunished and in fact gets rewarded with additional disaster assistance from the province, from the federal government."
LINK


In other flooding news....
Quote
Flooding prompts Prince Edward County to declare a state of emergency
LINK

Prince Edward County is just south of Trenton.  They'll be inundated with RCAF people demanding 4-star hotels,  lattes...... and tax-exempt status.   >:D
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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2017, 08:22:58 »
They'll be inundated with RCAF people demanding 4-star hotels,  lattes...... and tax-exempt status. 

Coming from you, this is insulting suggesting the RCAF would ask for 4-star hotels...

You know we would ask 5-star hotels!

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2017, 08:26:41 »
Coming from you, this is insulting suggesting the RCAF would ask for 4-star hotels...

You know we would ask 5-star hotels!
Actually, I initially wrote 5-star;  then I realized that there would be non-aircrew involved.   ;D
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2017, 09:32:22 »
Coming from you, this is insulting suggesting the RCAF would ask for 4-star hotels...

You know we would ask 5-star hotels!

Aircrew buddy if mine was telling me there's some kind of rule that aircrew are supposed to get individual quarters when on the road for sleeping. I guess like single person hotel rooms?  Said there was quite a bit of drama when people were told because of the budget they would likely be sharing rooms when possible.
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2017, 09:38:30 »
Jarnhamar,

To be fair, this is more of a safety concern.  While there has been instances where I shared rooms with someone else but we generally try to avoid it.  When on the road, we generally have a pretty agressive schedule and are either resting or conducting flying activities so good rest is actually important in safe operations.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2017, 09:45:47 »
Thats fair. No one out ranks general safety ;D
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 17:42:03 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2017, 10:00:56 »
Aircrew buddy if mine was telling me there's some kind of rule that aircrew are supposed to get individual quarters when on the road for sleeping. I guess like single person hotel rooms?  Said there was quite a bit of drama when people were told because of the budget they would likely be sharing rooms when possible.

It really depends on your Wing/Sqn policy and the current financial climate. Generally, when on the road, you get your own hotel room. However, I have recently ferried a Sea King across the country and it was shared rooms the whole way because of budget concerns...

On a ship, nearly nobody gets their own cabin. The techs are in 19 mess, which has about an 18 rack capacity (and is right over the propellers, making it arguably the worst mess on the ship for noise and vibration). The aircrew officers often get shoehorned into cabin 6/8 which has 6 racks. This at least has the virtue of letting them control their own crew rest situation, somewhat.

The upcoming classes of ships (I am told) will be much closer to a commercial standard for Accomodations for all ranks.

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #38 on: May 11, 2017, 11:24:13 »
Folks

If you are so inclined and can afford it, please consider a donation to the Red Cross, the designated agency for flood relief. We are in the position to do so, and made a fairly substantial one this morning. The park on the St Lawrence where we put our trailer for the summer is under a few feet of water, but that hardly matters compared to what many of our fellow Canadians are experiencing.

Offline 211RadOp

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2017, 13:00:48 »
Old Sweat will recognize this place as he has been here once or twice  ;)

The top of the tractor rim is usually 1 to 2 feet above water level at this time of year.  For situational purposes, that is PEC in the background.

Edit:  Forgot to add that this was taken on 9 May and the water has not peaked yet.
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Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2017, 13:24:09 »
A couple of questions, Rad Op. How is the boat house and is the ferry operating? Oh, and what about the septic system?

Offline 211RadOp

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Re: Quebec Gov't Requests CAF support to address flooding
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2017, 13:26:05 »
Water is about six feet into the boathouse.  Septic is good as it is in the lilac bushes by the composter.  Ferry is running when the water is not too rough.  Youngest brother was there yesterday cutting the lawn which was in bad need of it.  At least the upper levels.  He opted not to do the hill or the lower levels for some reason.
“I thought I couldn't afford to take her out and smoke as well. So I gave up cigarettes. Then I took her out and one day I looked at her and thought: "Oh well," and I went back to smoking again, and that was better.” - Benny Hill
"Politics: “Poli” a Latin word meaning “many”; and "tics" meaning “bloodsucking creatures” - Robin Williams
"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it may be necessary from time to time to give a stupid or misinformed beholder a black eye.” - Miss Piggy