Author Topic: CFPAS (PERs & PDRs), Assesment Process, Honest Assesments, & Unjust Career Advancement (Merged Topic  (Read 407525 times)

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Offline ArmyVern

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Getting the CO's attention is not a problem unique to Reserve units.

True enough.  But, there are ways!!    >:D
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.

Offline Good2Golf

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I appologize for my tone; I didn't take it personally.

I agree, I would have preferred much more direction. Now, having spent the last year trying to keep my head above water, I'll know what to look/ask for next year.

And I genuinely wish you the best during your time at the unit, administrative frustrations aside!  :nod:

Cheers
G2G

Offline AK

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A word of caution about opting-out; phrase your reasoning carefully or it can be used in a manner that you do not expect.

I attributed my wish to opt-out to my impending retirement.  No specific timeframe was provided.  I have almost 31 years in and I didn't want the unnecessary fuss of PERs for the last 2-4 years.  My Career Manager has chosen to interpret this as a risk that I could submit a 30 day release at any time and has formally amended my posting dates accordingly to mitigate this risk.  While this isn't the end of the world, it is annoying and inconvenient.  And almost ironically, it likely moves my earliest possible release date a year closer as I had no intention of releasing from this position.

Cheers!

Offline NinerSix

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What are your experiences with assessing reserve corporal, which are in reserve assigned position, but working alongside RegF counterparts?

While I am a reserve chauvinist, there is a definite technical gap in our trade between the PRes and RegF members. Where I am right now the PRes are being assessed based on the same criteria as all the other corporals, with predictable results.

I am a little dismayed at the results. I just don't think it's fair to set the same benchmark for everyone. For the record I am in a RegF slot in another rank, so this doesn't affect me.
The process is not the mission.

Offline George Wallace

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My experience was that Reservists were ranked against their peers in their Reserve unit, not against a Reg Force establishment.  If they were on a Class B with the Reg Force, then that would be taken into consideration at their Reserve unit and a check in the box/'Brownie Points' for their external to unit training/experience, as would a Class B or Class C deployment.   For the most part, other than a PER on Tour, the PER is written by the parent Reserve unit, not a Reg Force unit.  That is not to say that a Reg Force unit employing Reservists should not be writing PDRs on the pers they employ, just because they may be Reservists.  Those PDRs would be sent to the Reserve unit for their records/info and writing of their PER on the individual.

[Edit to add:  I am thinking of the short term Class B cases of 180 days to 360.]
« Last Edit: August 21, 2016, 15:12:42 by George Wallace »
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Offline MCG

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I have always seen PERs written by the employing unit for PRL reservists.

The ranking box in the left margin is for ranking within occupation, and reservists are different occupations so always ranked separate from Reg F in this location.  However ranking in the narrative of the additional review is supposed to be at the assessed rank across all occupations ... but I have seen this section written to constrain the ranking within component (where it looked better to the benefit of the assessed member). 

All that being said, I think the question was intended to ask about scoring as opposed to ranking.  Performance is scored against the job, so if a reservist is not achieving the job requirements then performance would be scored low.  Potential scoring might be a little difficult.  It could be some traits are more important in a PRes MCpl than in a Reg F MCpl (and vice versa), and it would not be wrong to consider this when scoring.

Offline Mediman14

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Does anyone know why units hold PER boards in Early Jan or Feb? Are those scores written in stone?  If the reporting period is always from 31 Mar to 1 Apr. Apparently, according to CSM, the scores are set. Just sounds so wrong to me, Also according to him, only the CO can change a PER Score. I hope he is joking!

Offline MCG

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You will want to have a look at paragraph 5b of CANFORGEN 010/17.

Offline Lumber

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Does anyone know why units hold PER boards in Early Jan or Feb? Are those scores written in stone?  If the reporting period is always from 31 Mar to 1 Apr. Apparently, according to CSM, the scores are set. Just sounds so wrong to me, Also according to him, only the CO can change a PER Score. I hope he is joking!

The ranking boards are NOT used to determine PER scores. Supervisors are to assess their personnel as honestly as they can, with obvious room for adjustment pending input from higher supervisors. The ranking boards are only to determine a members section 6 ranking, which is more overall and more general assessment of how the member compares against all other members of their rank in the unit.

In theory,  you could have the "number 2" corporal at the unit having a higher PER score than the "number 1" corporal if everyone thinks he's superior but number 2's boss/chain of command tend to be more generous with their hard right bullets .
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Ideally supervisors go to the ranking board with draft scores and a 'brag sheet' to justify the scores, but they aren't fixed.  If you do them inside the reporting periods (due to opsched etc) it should be with the understanding that the scores/ranking can be adjusted if someone does something above and beyond or gets up to shenanigans, gets promoted, etc.  Some units do actually wait until end March to do the rankings; it really all depends on what's going on, and tends to roll down from higher direction for when things are getting submitted for review for higher authority (if required) or the formation level rankings.

Normally that's run through the PER monitoring organization who also does all the reviewing etc who are typically the POC for all things PERs including changes to scoring and ranking before it goes to the CO.


Offline Eye In The Sky

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You will want to have a look at paragraph 5b of CANFORGEN 010/17.

...and the CFPAS Help File...
The only time you have too much gas is when you're on fire.

Offline AirDet

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That CANFORGEN was given full distribution but the local pecking orders are still happening. I've already seen it and raised the flag. Old habits die very hard.
Just because an opinion differs doesn't make it any less valid. Remember those who gave their ALL to guarantee freedom of speech.

Offline Lumber

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That CANFORGEN was given full distribution but the local pecking orders are still happening. I've already seen it and raised the flag. Old habits die very hard.

What my fear is this; we have different departments with different supervisors who have different opinions on how to score PERS.

So, we do the ranking board, and we determine Cpl A is the top Cpl at the unit, and Cpl B is the second best at the unit. That will go in the Section 6.

However, Cpls A and B are from different departments. Cpl A's supervisors give a completely honest assessment of him, and as a result, he has a hard right, but not fully right, PER. Cpl B's department, on the other hand, has supervisors who give you a fully right PER just because they know you are good crap, without really looking at the word pictures and assessing each factor on its merits.

As a result, while the unit determined and agreed as a whole that Cpl A was the "superior" of the two Cpl, his PER is actually lower than the PER of Cpl B.
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!

Offline Old EO Tech

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What my fear is this; we have different departments with different supervisors who have different opinions on how to score PERS.

So, we do the ranking board, and we determine Cpl A is the top Cpl at the unit, and Cpl B is the second best at the unit. That will go in the Section 6.

However, Cpls A and B are from different departments. Cpl A's supervisors give a completely honest assessment of him, and as a result, he has a hard right, but not fully right, PER. Cpl B's department, on the other hand, has supervisors who give you a fully right PER just because they know you are good crap, without really looking at the word pictures and assessing each factor on its merits.

As a result, while the unit determined and agreed as a whole that Cpl A was the "superior" of the two Cpl, his PER is actually lower than the PER of Cpl B.

Sometimes that is justified though, particularly if they are different trades with different scores required to merit nationally.  The question to ask is do this Cpl's deserve to be promoted?  If the answer is yes then the next question is what score is required to do that in there trade?  For example a MSE Op Cpl might only need a 14/2 5/1 and that will do the job.  But for an EO Tech he needs at least two years of 16/6 just to get in the top 5 of his trade....knowledge of national trends is required to situate the estimate.  But that EO Tech Cpl may still only be the #2 Cpl in the the unit and the MSE Op is #1....

Jon

Offline Lumber

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Sometimes that is justified though, particularly if they are different trades with different scores required to merit nationally.  The question to ask is do this Cpl's deserve to be promoted?  If the answer is yes then the next question is what score is required to do that in there trade?  For example a MSE Op Cpl might only need a 14/2 5/1 and that will do the job.  But for an EO Tech he needs at least two years of 16/6 just to get in the top 5 of his trade....knowledge of national trends is required to situate the estimate.  But that EO Tech Cpl may still only be the #2 Cpl in the the unit and the MSE Op is #1....

Jon

And that's what the problem is with the whole system. You should ever ask yourself "what scores does he need to get promoted", you should be reading over PDRs, divisional notes and anything else you have on the member, then reading the word pictures, the determining whether his performance more closely matches "Outstanding" or "Above Average".

If all we did was first determine "should they get promoted" and then determine "what score do they need to get promoted", and simply put that on their PER, then the entire CFPAS process and the PER have been made superfluous.

Which it has...

Which is why when you have an "honest" boss it kind of sucks.
“Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
― Dwight D. Eisenhower


Death before dishonour! Nothing before coffee!