Author Topic: The Khadr Thread  (Read 451946 times)

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Offline shawn5o

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2225 on: July 17, 2017, 15:03:02 »
Unless those 26 years of service were in the JAG branch or as a member of the supreme court than they really dont

BrdGunner - I guess opinions and viewpoints don't matter, right? And speaking of JAG branch, wasn't it quiet on Omar?
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Offline Colin P

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2226 on: July 17, 2017, 15:52:07 »
G2G, your insight in this thread is a welcome addition.

How much do you want to bet the next political hot potato that rears its ugly head is the Kurdish question?

We've aligned ourselves with a group that is actively going against our political position of a unified Iraqi state. 

People need to stop focusing on the minutiae and start looking at the real issues.

Frankly we should have kept silent on the Kurdish question or had the balls to make the right decision to back them. The Kurds have had the dirty end of the stick since at least the fall of the Ottomans and the fact that they tried to make it work with Iraq is impressive. Iraq failed the Kurds once again, why would the kurds ever trust them, particularly with such heavy Iranian influence?

Any ways the Shiites are still going to have their hands full with the Sunni tribes, if they go full nutbar again, then perhaps KSA might feel obligated to provide a "safe zone" in the Anbar region.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2227 on: July 17, 2017, 16:12:31 »
By a 5-4 ruling. And the SCC does make mistakes

Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades though.  Whether or not they made a mistake is kind of beside the point.  They're the final arbiter of such things, and they've already decided.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2228 on: July 17, 2017, 16:18:56 »
Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades though.  Whether or not they made a mistake is kind of beside the point.  They're the final arbiter of such things, and they've already decided.

You're absolutely right and I think we need to move on. Here's hoping great harm falls upon him.
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Offline FJAG

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2229 on: July 17, 2017, 17:04:06 »
BrdGunner - I guess opinions and viewpoints don't matter, right? And speaking of JAG branch, wasn't it quiet on Omar?

Neither the JAG nor any legal officers had any role in this matter one way or the other.

Legal services to CSIS and all other agencies involved came and comes from the Department of Justice.

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Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2230 on: July 17, 2017, 17:28:39 »
Oh! oh! Trump might notice:

Quote
The federal payout to Omar Khadr had received meagre attention in the U.S. media – until now.

The Wall Street Journal has published a scorching op-ed written by opposition MP Peter Kent that’s now gaining traction elsewhere.

The former journalist had penned a piece titled, “A Terrorist’s Big Payday, Courtesy of Trudeau.”..

By Monday afternoon [July 17] the issue was the No. 1 story on the Fox News website...
https://www.theglobeandmail.com///news/politics/omar-khadr-payout-gets-larger-us-media-attention-as-tory-mp-pens-op-ed/article35711859/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe

Fox News:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/07/17/omar-khadr-canada-pays-ex-gitmo-detainee-who-killed-us-soldier-millions-but-soldiers-widow-may-never-see-dime.html

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Offline Retired AF Guy

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2231 on: July 17, 2017, 19:57:35 »
Close only counts in horse-shoes and hand grenades though.  Whether or not they made a mistake is kind of beside the point.  They're the final arbiter of such things, and they've already decided.

[A slight derail] Correct me if I'm wrong, (and I'm not referring to the SCC decision on Khadr, but SCC decisions in general) but the SCC is not the "final arbiter of such things," its Parliament. [Back on to topic]
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Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2232 on: July 17, 2017, 20:01:32 »
[A slight derail] Correct me if I'm wrong, (and I'm not referring to the SCC decision on Khadr, but SCC decisions in general) but the SCC is not the "final arbiter of such things," its Parliament. [Back on to topic]

Parliament has (partial) authority to change the Constitution and full authority to change the law.  The SCOC interprets it as written. 

Offline Loachman

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2233 on: July 17, 2017, 20:06:33 »
http://www.weeklystandard.com/a-jihadist-hits-the-jackpot/article/2008843

A Jihadist Hits the Jackpot

Why did Canada shell out millions to an al Qaeda killer?

Jul 24, 2017 | By Candice Malcolm

When former president Barack Obama initiated efforts to implement his pledge to close Guantánamo Bay and transfer its detainees to U.S. and foreign prisons, he started a cascade effect that has boosted the global jihadist insurgency. The most recent example of the impact of Obama’s foreign policy comes from just across the 49th parallel. On the Fourth of July, news broke that an Obama acolyte - Canada’s Prime Minister Justin Trudeau - would offer a historic settlement and official apology to a former Guantánamo Bay inmate. Trudeau’s Liberal government secretly awarded C$10.5 million to Omar Khadr, a man convicted of war crimes and the murder of an American soldier; Guantánamo’s youngest detainee is now 30 years old and living in Edmonton, Alberta.

The case of Omar Khadr is as provocative as it is unusual. Khadr was born in Toronto, a Canadian citizen, but his Egyptian-Palestinian family spent most of Khadr’s childhood in Pakistan. Khadr was brought up under the guidance of a mother who preferred her children be raised not in Canada but in an al Qaeda training camp and a father intent on grooming his seven children to participate in jihad. The father, Ahmed Said al-Khadr, was a senior al Qaeda officer and financier described by his wife as an “old friend” of Osama bin Laden. The Khadr family once lived in the bin Laden compound, and the al Qaeda leader himself attended the wedding of the eldest Khadr daughter, Zaynab - an unabashed Islamist who has expressed her own support for the 9/11 mastermind. Another son, Abdurahman Khadr, who took a different path than Omar and has worked with American intelligence agencies, told PBS he grew up “in an al Qaeda family.”

By the age of 15, Omar Khadr was in Afghanistan, attending jihadist training camps and meeting with senior al Qaeda figures, including bin Laden. He had taken part in a number of operations meant to kill or injure U.S. forces. He was captured following a gunfight between plain-clothed terrorists and U.S. Delta Force soldiers at an al Qaeda compound near Khost, Afghanistan. After the battle, American army medics were sent in to tend to any survivors, and Khadr threw a grenade that killed one of those medics, Sgt. First Class Christopher Speer.

Khadr himself faced life-threatening injuries from gun wounds; he survived only because he was treated by U.S. medics who made it through the firefight.

Khadr was airlifted to Bagram, the largest U.S. military base in Afghanistan, where he received further medical attention and was subject to initial questioning. Here Khadr stated that “he felt happy when he heard he had killed an American” and signed a statement of facts confessing to the murder of Sgt. Speer. Khadr later claimed the confession was the result of torture and coercion, but a military judge ruled that Khadr signed the statement after he learned investigators had found a videotape showing him building IEDs. Khadr was transferred to Guantánamo - his home for the next decade - where he was held, interrogated, and prosecuted in a military tribunal. He was found guilty in 2010 of five counts of war crimes, including the murder of Sgt. Speer.

Rather than letting him serve the 40-year sentence handed down by the military tribunal, however, Khadr’s lawyers negotiated a plea deal, and the Obama administration reportedly began pressuring Canada to accept custody of Khadr.

Years later, it was revealed through Hillary Clinton’s leaked private emails that she and her staff had personally intervened and encouraged Canadian officials to repatriate Khadr.

In 2012, Khadr was transferred to a maximum-security prison in Canada, and by 2015, he was released on bail by the country’s notoriously liberal court system. Meanwhile, Khadr and his lawyers had filed a civil lawsuit against the government of Canada, alleging that it had failed to uphold his rights as a Canadian citizen. The country’s Supreme Court ruled in 2010 that the Canadian government had indeed infringed upon Khadr’s rights when it sent its own interrogators to Guantánamo to question, as the court’s opinion put it, “a youth detained without access to counsel, to elicit statements about serious criminal charges while knowing that the youth had been subjected to sleep deprivation and while knowing that the fruits of the interrogations would be shared with the prosecutors.” Khadr first sought C$100,000 in damages in his civil suit; he later raised the amount to C$20 million. The Supreme Court ruling, however, said nothing about financial compensation, “leaving it to the government to decide how best to respond” and noting that the “remedy sought” by Khadr was “an order that Canada request his repatriation.”

The question therefore remains: Was Trudeau’s Independence Day decision a deliberate provocation and an anti-American gesture or simply an unassuming, if not naïve, attempt to right an extraordinary wrong? The answer to this question depends largely upon one’s view of Omar Khadr. Some see him as a traitor who defected to fight alongside the enemy, an al Qaeda terrorist and a convicted war criminal, while others see a victim, a brainwashed son and a former child soldier.

Those who defend the Trudeau government’s payment to Omar Khadr rely upon two essential propositions. First, they assert, Khadr was a child soldier and should therefore be treated differently from other terrorists captured and detained at Guantánamo. And second, Khadr’s advocates say that his confession and admission of guilt were the result of torture and routine rights violations, and should not be upheld as a true guilty plea.

A close examination of the facts, however, shows that both assertions are myths that do not hold up to basic scrutiny.

Offline Loachman

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2234 on: July 17, 2017, 20:08:50 »
The SCOC interprets it as written.

Yes, it does.

Every single time.

Really, it does.

Honestly.

Without fail.

"Activist courts" is fake news.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2235 on: July 17, 2017, 20:09:58 »
Yes, it does.

Every single time.

Really, it does.

Honestly.

Without fail.

"Activist courts" is fake news.

It really is 'fake news', as interpreting laws within their foundational context, as well as the modern context in which we live, is also part of their job.

Offline Loachman

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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2237 on: July 17, 2017, 20:35:09 »
It really is 'fake news', as interpreting laws within their foundational context, as well as the modern context in which we live, is also part of their job.

And their job is just that, a job.  They're not anointed by a divine being, being human have faults, can make mistakes and forget themselves at times.  They don't make the law, Parliament does.  Lastly,  what they say is just another opinion too.  Just like assholes, everyone has one.  And some, are ******* opinions...

You may be overawed by them, many aren't, including me.  Meh...

Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2238 on: July 17, 2017, 21:06:19 »
And their job is just that, a job.  They're not anointed by a divine being, being human have faults, can make mistakes and forget themselves at times.  They don't make the law, Parliament does.  Lastly,  what they say is just another opinion too. 

That's true.  Their opinion is wholly more informed than yours...or mine.  The law is their area of expertise.  I'm sure you wouldn't want them wading into yours.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2239 on: July 17, 2017, 21:07:48 »
There's a difference between "interpreting" and distorting to achieve an end desired by a handful of unelected social-engineering elites:

http://www.macdonaldlaurier.ca/supreme-courts-judicial-activism-corrupting-rule-law-crowley-globe/

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/andrew-coyne-supreme-court-euthanasia-ruling-marks-the-death-of-judicial-restraint/wcm/e908dd8e-1a8a-4f4e-9ab0-73379aa26bd5

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/who-is-judging-the-judges/article23069380/

The funny thing about those 'articles' - each of them are also opinions.  And again, each of those opinions are held by people an order of magnitude less qualified than the justices.

Offline Loachman

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2240 on: July 17, 2017, 21:09:19 »
The law is their area of expertise.

And that does not make them infallible or immune to bias.

Justice and what the courts say are not always the same thing.

Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2241 on: July 17, 2017, 21:13:11 »
BrdGunner - I guess opinions and viewpoints don't matter, right? And speaking of JAG branch, wasn't it quiet on Omar?

Opinions and viewpoints within someone's lane are fine and should be seen as an expert opinion to be sought.

While I know that the army receives legal training to a small extent, no one outside of the legal system/SCC is qualified or has the expertise to make the decisions.

It'd be akin to show a justice how to use a C7 and then having him brief the Bn Comd on how a BG attack went on based on his training.

So no- I categorically do not believe that 26 years of military experience, outside the JAG branch, counts in this regard.

Offline jmt18325

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2242 on: July 17, 2017, 21:14:04 »
And that does not make them infallible or immune to bias.

Justice and what the courts say are not always the same thing.

I agree - they're completely fallible.  They're simply more qualified to make the determination.

Offline FJAG

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2243 on: July 17, 2017, 21:17:28 »
Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

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Offline Remius

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2244 on: July 17, 2017, 21:27:53 »
Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

 :cheers:


I tend to agree.  No one is going to convince anyone here.  When it comes to Khadr, each side of this is pretty entrenched. 
Optio

Offline gryphonv

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2245 on: July 17, 2017, 21:59:50 »
Honestly guys. This s**t is getting lame.  :blah: Move on.

 :cheers:
Thank you.

We all established where we stand in this thread several pages ago. I doubt anyone here is going to change their opinion. I know I'm not in this regard. To me Khadr is a terrorist regardless of how or why or a confession. And there are those who don't feel that, or something else entirely


I'm all for seeing new news articles added here from all viewpoints and developing stories, but for the commenters, including myself, going back and repeating something over and over adds little to this going forward.

A few of us need to share a few beers and agree to disagree.

Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2246 on: July 17, 2017, 22:08:05 »
Good suggestion,  FJAG, this topic isn't worth the sweat off my balls.  I'm going to stay off this thread.   :salute:

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2247 on: July 17, 2017, 22:34:23 »
Then lock it and bury it.
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2248 on: July 18, 2017, 07:03:07 »
Traveling the Maritimes right now, and it seems that the whole matter has completely disappeared from their collective radar.  In travelling from ON to NB seemed to be a magical imaginary line where outrage turned instantly to apathy.  I have seen absolutely nothing in the Press in NB, NS, nor PEI on Khadr.  Any predictions that this will have a negative on the Liberal Red Voters in the Maritimes will likely be long forgotten in 2019; as they are already forgotten.
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: The Khadr Thread
« Reply #2249 on: July 18, 2017, 07:26:18 »
Then lock it and bury it.

Please do. And George is right - in 2019 it won't matter.
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