Author Topic: All Things MATA/PATA (merged)  (Read 80038 times)

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Offline Greenmachine2517

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #50 on: July 26, 2012, 17:23:38 »
So, is this to mean the CBI I have will be very little to no use for my situation? Sorry for my minimal knowledge on all of this, but there is next to nothing for publications regarding retroactive pay and parental leave... I'm trying to find what seems to be pertinent info.

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #51 on: July 26, 2012, 17:26:01 »
So, is this to mean the CBI I have will be very little to no use for my situation?

204.015 has nothing to do with your situation.

Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #52 on: July 26, 2012, 17:26:40 »
http://admfincs.mil.ca/admfincs/subjects/cfao/049-04_e.asp

This should help.

Basically, the CO has to sign off on your promotion.  If they don't they have to provide you with a reason.

Quote
PROMOTION AUTHORITY
4. Subject to paragraph 5, the approving authority for:

promotion to Pte(B), Pte(T), acting lacking/corporal (AL/Cpl), acting/corporal (provisional) (A/Cpl(P)) and Corporal (Cpl) is the member's commanding officer (CO);

Quote
ACTION BY COMMANDING OFFICER RESPECTING PROMOTION
11. For promotion to Cpl, AL/Cpl or A/Cpl(P) and for nominations to accelerated promotions and from acting to substantive rank, form CF 743A, UER (Unit Employment Record) Qualification Record Sheet, shall be completed and distributed as described in Annex G.

12. A recommendation by a CO for promotion, or for qualification leading to promotion, shall be construed to mean that the member has, in all respects, demonstrated the necessary potential, and that the CO is prepared to retain and develop the member in the higher rank.

13. When a CO has recommended the promotion of a member in a Personal Evaluation Record (PER) or by any other means, it is imperative that any change in circumstances that could affect the member's suitability for promotion be reported immediately to NDHQ/DGPCOR by message.

14. When a promotion to Pte(T) or Cpl is denied, the CO shall inform NDHQ/DGPCOR of the circumstances and specify the intended period of delay, and inform the member of the action taken.


WRT LWOP:

Quote
LEAVE WITHOUT PAY
24. LWOP granted on enrolment shall not count as qualifying time for promotion. Effective 1 Jun 86, all other LWOP of 120 days duration or less shall count for promotion. LWOP of a duration of greater than 120 days may count as qualifying service in total or in part as specified by the approving authority of the leave. When a promotion instruction contains the name of a member who is on LWOP, the CO shall advise NDHQ/DPCAOR of the circumstances including commencement and termination dates. NDHQ/DPCAOR will advise the CO whether the promotion will stand, will be cancelled, or will be deferred.


Hope this helps a bit.
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Offline Greenmachine2517

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #53 on: July 26, 2012, 17:51:07 »
Thank you Strike!

Just to be clear though, I have already received the promotion... it's just the retro pay I'm trying to get situated.

If I understand correctly, where the leave days were more than 120 consecutive days, it's up to NDHQ/DPCAOR to decide if those days will count as qualifying service.

My first child was also born since I have been in and there has been no repercussions from that... So, why this is such a big issue, I'm not sure. I've never had any disciplinary issues or medical restrictions... It's just a little boggling.



Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #54 on: July 26, 2012, 17:54:39 »
Thank you Strike!

Just to be clear though, I have already received the promotion... it's just the retro pay I'm trying to get situated.


Yes, but the time in all goes towards promotion dates, EPZ and all that noz.  What you need to do is ask why your promotion date was delayed to when it was.  If it wasn't the, quite simply, your pay should be back-dated.  Read through all of the CFAO in the link provided.  If it's DWAN only then let me know and I'll PM you the whole thing.
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Offline Greenmachine2517

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #55 on: July 26, 2012, 20:40:26 »
Hey, thanks for the link, but it is on the DWAN only. I would greatly appreciate it if you'd PM it to me.

Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #56 on: July 26, 2012, 21:18:52 »
Hey, thanks for the link, but it is on the DWAN only. I would greatly appreciate it if you'd PM it to me.

Won't be able to do it until Tuesday now. I'm on leave 'till then.
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Offline Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2012, 02:15:43 »
I am trying to get some straight answers from my orderly room, but it feels as if I'm getting the run-around...

Whaaaaat?  The run around from an orderly room? 

I knew I read a thread a while ago that sort of dealt with the same situation.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=103719.0   

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2012, 07:05:23 »
Hey, thanks for the link, but it is on the DWAN only. I would greatly appreciate it if you'd PM it to me.

Do you have a Forces network/email account?
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Offline DAA

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2012, 14:21:37 »
If I understand correctly, where the leave days were more than 120 consecutive days, it's up to NDHQ/DPCAOR to decide if those days will count as qualifying service.

Promotion to Cpl is based on Qualifying Service.  When you're on Maternity or Parental LWOP, the time counts towards the calculation of your EPZ date (ie; the date you are eligible for promotion to Cpl).  However, the effective date of promotion CANNOT be while you are on LWOP.  Therefore, if you reached 4 years of service while on LWOP, then the effective date of your promotion to the rank of Cpl would be the first day you return to work.
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Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #60 on: July 27, 2012, 20:10:21 »
Promotion to Cpl is based on Qualifying Service.  When you're on Maternity or Parental LWOP, the time counts towards the calculation of your EPZ date (ie; the date you are eligible for promotion to Cpl).  However, the effective date of promotion CANNOT be while you are on LWOP.  Therefore, if you reached 4 years of service while on LWOP, then the effective date of your promotion to the rank of Cpl would be the first day you return to work.

I don't recall reading any of that.  Do you have a reference that you could share?
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Offline jeffb

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2012, 08:07:52 »
It is also possible that your friend was advance promoted. She may not even be aware of that as the paperwork does not involve her. The only indication that a member would have that they have been advance promoted would be on parade. Different person, different situation.
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Offline wesleyd

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #62 on: July 30, 2012, 06:47:57 »
I am trying to get some straight answers from my orderly room, but it feels as if I'm getting the run-around... I went on parental leave in August 2011 and as of Sept 2011, I hit my 4yrs in and was eligible for my Cpls. I came back to work in May 2012 and received my promotion in June. I have received my pay statement for End July and was retro paid for June and July, however, I am being told that because I took parental leave, I am not due for the retro pay as of Sept.

Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, however... I have a female friend who joined the same day as me and we did BMQ together. She took parental leave for the same time frame as I did (Aug to May). She just got her retro pay dated as of Sept 2011, resulting in a VERY large pay difference.

My unit is telling me that my retro pay is only to the 1st of June... Why would that be??? And if she were to bring a copy of her MPRR with her to my orderly room with me so they can see her promotion effective date, should they not be required to make that change on mine?

Thanks for any help on this!

Get your promotion message, the effective date is when you will get paid from. Not when you were eligible. I am in a similar situation waiting for my WO,  Because of where I am posted I have been passed over and will not be promoted until late fall, even though I should have been made in April I will not get back pay for 7 months as my effective date will be in Nov sometime. Just because you are eligible does not mean you are guaranteed to get promoted the day of. Way back in the late 80's early 90's I remember guys that were eligible for promotion for three years but did not get promoted because there were no promotions. When they did get promoted they were back paid to the effective date, which was usually a month or so, not three years.

Offline DAA

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2012, 08:13:21 »
I don't recall reading any of that.  Do you have a reference that you could share?

PM me your DWAN email address and I will send it right over......
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Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2012, 17:02:07 »
PM me your DWAN email address and I will send it right over......

Just post the reference here.  I can check what it says when I get back to work tomorrow.
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Offline Shamrock

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #65 on: July 30, 2012, 19:57:28 »

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #66 on: July 31, 2012, 08:15:49 »
Just post the reference here.  I can check what it says when I get back to work tomorrow.

Okay, here goes.....extract from an email sent from DMCPG

Ref: ADM (HR) Mil Instr 20/04  http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/mpi-ipm/20-04-eng.asp
 
Thanks, I was aware of the CBI ref and agree it's specifically about pay increments but it's probably the best I could offer as well.  At ref is a Primary Reserve statement on the issue - See Section 3.11(d).  Excused Duty and Training (ED&T) is the P Res equivalent to the Reg F LWOP since they have no LWOP.  Unfortunately there's no similar statement anywhere that I can find for the Reg F.  QR&O 3.09 (3)(d) indicates periods of LWOP do not count for seniority.  That article will be amended in support of a new series of DAODs that will replace the various CFAOs dealing with Career Policy to include wording to the effect that, seniority does not accrue while on periods of LWOP except when it is taken for purposes of maternity/parental leave. 
 
With that said, option c from your previous e-mail is correct:
 
c.   effective date of promotion changes to the first working day following parental leave.  (PARENTAL LEAVE COUNTS AS QUALIFYING SERVICE BUT THE MEMBER CANNOT HAVE AN EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION WHILE HE IS ON PARENTAL LEAVE).
 
From your previous e-mail, there's an explanation in the chain regarding deferral  "The basis for deferral of the promotion is that a mbr on MATA/PATA leave is not fulfilling a service requirement requiring the higher rank. " New policy (due out in 2012) will allow that the mbr's seniority could be backdated to 25 Mar but the effective date of promotion would still be 27 Mar, the day the mbr returned from parental leave.
 
I hope this clarifies.
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Offline Strike

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Re: Parental Leave, Promotion & Retroactive Pay
« Reply #67 on: August 01, 2012, 11:06:14 »
So, I found this online:

http://cmp-cpm.forces.mil.ca/DHRIM/mhrrp/Ch17/engraph/ch17_e.pdf

which is basically a 'how-to' on administrating people who are pregnant or on MATA/PATA.

Paras 9.7-9.9 deal will promotions and pay scales while on MATA/PATA.

Quote
Promotion – MATA/PATA
9.7 Once a member has commenced LWOP for maternity or parental leave purposes, they are not rendering any service and should, therefore, not be entitled to promotion. However, promotions received while a member is on MATA/PATA may be deferred as long as they met all the prerequisites for promotion prior to commencing this leave and the promotion was previously approved, both for Reg and Res Forces. Of note, if a member is proceeding on PATA leave (vs MATA), his/her med cat doesn't change.

9.8 Promotion ceremonies are not considered to meet the exigencies of imperative military requirements. COs are cautioned that to recall a member from leave so as to promote the member amongst his/her peers will negatively affect the calculation of EI or QPIP benefits and MATA and/or PATA.
Promotions and Pay Incentives

9.9 A promotion affecting pay and allowances or a pay incentive awarded during the period used to calculate the member’s earnings prior to the CF member going on maternity or parental leave will affect the calculation of EI or QPIP benefits and MATA and/or PATA. The member’s URS is responsible to action any promotions and/or incentive awards in HRMS, except that for:

a.Reg F members, HRMS will trigger pay and CCPS will automatically calculate any changes to a rate of pay and re-calculate all allowances. The responsibility of generating an amended ROE remains with the member’s URS; and

b. Res F members, the Res F Admin HQ will need to enter the change in RPSR and issue an amended ROE if required. They must also advise DMPAP/Mil Pay Ops of the change of pay so that DMPAP may re-calculate the MATA and/or PATA.

I've highlighted the 'should' as anyone who has spent way too much time looking through regs and pubs knows that 'should' does not mean 'shall.'  Therefore, someone could conceivably be promoted while on MATA/PATA (and it has been done).  It would wreak havock when trying to recalculate benefits though, which is one of the reasons it's not recommended.
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Offline Strike

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All Things MATA/PATA (merged)
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2012, 17:59:29 »
So, currently on sick leave from delivering via c-section until 24 Oct when Mata is suposed to start. Now, the little one is still in the hospital being 2 months premature.

I've read QR&O 16.26 and 16.27 (on an iPhone so forgive me if I don't post the ref) and it's my understanding that, because my baby was in hospital prior to both Mata or Parental starting, the end dates of those leave will be extended accordingly. For example, if she's in for 4 weeks total then maternity and parental leave will end later so that the effect is that I still get a full year of having her at home.

Am I correct in my thinking? I have to go in to work to sort out some of this admin and want to make sure I have my references down. The last time I went the clerks were under the impression that my year away from work started from her birth date even though she is in the hospital. I know that the public service doesn't start the year of Mata/Pata until baby is at home according to another parent who's little one is also in the NICU here.
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Offline Kirsten Luomala

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Re: Mata/Pata start and end dates
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2012, 20:14:02 »
Although my premie daughter was born 10 years ago and things could have changed since then, my mata and pata started from the time she was born.  Same for the next 2 children.  Your sick leave which is standard for all pregnancy's only affects our pay not the time you'll spend away from work unless you sick leave was prior to delivery which is another separate issue. However I could be wrong as it has been a number of years since my girls were born.

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Re: Mata/Pata start and end dates
« Reply #70 on: October 09, 2012, 20:23:15 »
Back home now and have the relevant references, with the paras in question highlighted.  (Some of the formatting may be off due to trying to cut and paste on an iPad.)

16.26 - MATERNITY LEAVE

(1) (Application) This article applies to an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force or the Reserve Force on Class "B" or "C" Reserve Service.

(2) (Definition) In this article, "maternity leave" means a period of leave without pay and allowances granted to an officer or non-commissioned member for maternity purposes. (20 July 2006)

(3) (Eligibility) An officer or non-commissioned member who has been pregnant for at least 19 weeks is entitled, on request, to maternity leave for a period of up to the sum of the applicable periods of entitlement referred to in CBI subparagraph 205.461(4)(a) (Maternity and Parental Allowances) and paragraph 205.461(7). (20 July 2006)

(4) (Start and End of Period) Subject to paragraphs (5), (7) and (8), the period of maternity leave shall not start more than 8 weeks before the expected date of birth and shall end not later than 18 weeks after the date of the end of the pregnancy. (20 July 2006)

(5) (Extension) The end date of the period of maternity leave shall be extended by any of the following periods: (20 July 2006)

any period during which one or more new-born children are hospitalized, if the officer or non-commissioned member has not yet started the period of the maternity leave; and (20 July 2006)

any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member, having started but not ended the period of the maternity leave, returns to duty while one or more new-born children are hospitalized. (20 July 2006)
(6) (Military Requirements) When an officer or non-commissioned member has started but not ended maternity leave, a commanding officer may direct that the member return to duty because of imperative military requirements.

(7) (Maternity Benefits Extended) If a period of maternity benefits received under the Employment Insurance Act, or a provincial law or scheme, is extended in accordance with the Employment Insurance Act or the provincial law or scheme because the officer or non-commissioned member returns to duty under paragraph (6), the end date of the period of maternity leave granted shall be extended by the period that the maternity benefits are extended under the applicable law or scheme. (20 July 2006)

(8) (Limitation) A period of maternity leave extended under paragraphs (5) or (7) shall not end later than 52 weeks after the date of the end of the pregnancy.

(M) (20 July 2006)

16.27 - PARENTAL LEAVE

(1) (Application) This article applies to an officer or non-commissioned member of the Regular Force or the Reserve Force on Class  "B" or "C" Reserve Service.

(2) (Definition) In this article, "parental leave" means a period of leave without pay and allowances granted to an officer or non-commissioned member for parental or paternity purposes relating to one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted. (20 July 2006)

(3) (Eligibility) An officer or non-commissioned member is entitled to parental leave, on request, if the member: (20 July 2006)

has the care and custody of one or more new-born children of the member; (20 July 2006)

starts legal proceedings under the laws of a province to adopt one or more children who are placed with the member for the purpose of adoption; or (20 July 2006)
obtains an order under the laws of a province for the adoption of one or more children. (20 July 2006)
(4) (Period of Leave) The period of parental leave is up to:
(20 July 2006)

a period of 37 weeks; or (20 July 2006) (20 July 2006)
if the officer or non-commissioned member is entitled to a period of leave under article 16.26 (Maternity Leave), a period of the sum of the applicable periods of entitlement referred to in CBI subparagraph 205.461(4)(b) (Maternity and Parental Allowances) and paragraph 205.461(7). (20 July 2006)
(5) (Start and End of Period) The period of parental leave shall be taken within 52 weeks of the day on which the child or children of the officer or non-commissioned member are born or the day on which the member first became entitled to parental leave under subparagraph (3)(b) or (c).
(20 July 2006)

(6) (Extension) The end date of the period of parental leave shall be extended by any of the following periods: (20 July 2006)

any period during which one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted are hospitalized, if the officer or non-commissioned member has not yet started the period of the parental leave; (20 July 2006)

any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member, having started but not ended the period of the parental leave, returns to duty while one or more new-born or adopted children or children to be adopted are hospitalized; and (20 July 2006)
any period during which the officer or non-commissioned member, having started but not ended the period of the parental leave, is directed to return to duty by the commanding officer because of imperative military requirements. (20 July 2006)
(7) (Limitation) A period of parental leave

extended under subparagraph 6(a) or 6(b) shall end no later than 52 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3);
or
extended under subparagraph 6(c) or deferred under paragraph (8) shall end no later than 104 weeks after the day on which the officer or non-commissioned member first becomes entitled to parental leave under paragraph (3).
(8) (Military Requirements) A commanding officer may defer the start date of the period of parental leave if there are military imperative requirements.

(9) (Combined Periods - Parental Reasons) Subject to paragraph (10), if both parents are members of the Canadian Forces, the sum of the periods of parental leave to which the parents are entitled under this article, or the sum of the periods of parental leave under this article and any exemption from duty and training under article 9.10 (Exemption from Duty and Training - Parental Purposes) to which the parents are entitled, shall not exceed 37 weeks. (20 July 2006)

(10) (Combined Periods - Parental and Maternity Reasons) If both parents are members of the Canadian Forces and one parent is entitled to an exemption from duty and training under article 9.09 (Exemption From Duty and Training - Maternity Purposes) or is entitled to maternity leave under article 16.26, the sum of the period of exemption from duty and training under article 9.09 or maternity leave under article 16.26 to which a parent is entitled, and the periods of parental leave under this article and any exemption from duty and training under article 9.10 to which the parents are entitled, shall not exceed 52 weeks. (20 July 2006)

(11) (Transitional) The end date of the period of parental leave for an officer or non-commissioned member to whom section 4 of the Fairness for Military Families (Employment Insurance) Act applies is extended in the same manner as the period referred to in subsection 23(2) of the Employment Insurance Act as determined by the application of that section.
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Offline datrembl118

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PER after Parental leave
« Reply #71 on: January 23, 2013, 22:38:23 »
Is anybody know if after taking a year of parental leave, those a member still required a annual PER of just a PDR?

Offline Kirsten Luomala

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Re: PER after Parental leave
« Reply #72 on: January 23, 2013, 22:45:13 »
An annual PER.  If you worked less than 3 months of the year it will be an exemption PER reflecting parental leave and if you worked more than 3 months then its an annual PER.  This is all explained in the CPAS.

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Re: PER after Parental leave
« Reply #73 on: January 23, 2013, 22:47:07 »
IIRC, CFPAS doesn't say three months, it says an observable period.  If you come back after MATA/PATA and do 2 months of decent work, you should get a PER.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: PER after Parental leave
« Reply #74 on: January 23, 2013, 23:16:43 »
Depends upon whether or not they worked for an observable time period during the annual PER reporting period; if no, then they'd receive a PER Exemption (that form can be found within CFPAS) - all specific dates covering the entire reporting period are required to be entered etc with an explanation of why mbr was not observable for that time.

Last year, I belonged to my Unit for 4 months, but spent all but 1 week on embarkation or disembarkation leave.  No PER.  I did get an exemption PER that covered 01 Apr-06 Apr (exempt due to predeployment leave), 07 Apr- 17 Dec (exempt due to being deployed), 18-21 Dec (worked 3 X 1/2 days), 22 Dec - 21 Mar (exempt due to post-deployment leave), 22 -31 Mar - worked.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 23:23:09 by ArmyVern »
Hard by MCpl Elton Adams

If you or someone you love is having difficulty & would like to speak to someone who has been through a similar experience, who understands, & will respect your need for privacy and confidentiality, contact OSISS toll-free at 1-800-883-6094. You can locate the peer closest to you by logging on to www.osiss.ca, clicking on “Contact us” link & then choosing the “Peer” or “Family Support Network”. Help IS out there.