Author Topic: Priority Hiring in Fed Pub Svc (info, news, hints, tips, etc. - merged)  (Read 72554 times)

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Offline bubba

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2006, 10:25:59 »
Who's really running the workplace on the bases ,i don't think it's the union.I worked on base at PET when i got out.I applyed but never got called untill my neighbour asked if i was intrested in a job there,i should say.He was military not union plus he did not work for human resourses on base,but i would say he had some connections(coughcough).This man walked out on Fri in uniform returned on Mon in civies same job differint title.Is this fare i don't think it is,was there a competition to see who the best PERSON was.I never found out,should there be fair competition in mil vs civi l think it should be that way.Heres somthing to ponder is it fair to collect a full mil retirement pension then go to work on base fulltime with so many unemployed younger people out there.Regular workers call it double dipping what do you guys think.Also to you union haters untill you worked nonunion you will know why theres unions.Unions have lost alot of there power because of govt. legislation.PBI this could be why your grandad became dissalusioned, when he worked the unions were solid now they have takin to many steps back.Our govt hates unions this is my opinion . As long as the cost of living keeps rising SO SHOULD WAGES unfortunatly big buisness an govt don't like this idea. Look how long it took the military to get a pay hike.                            
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline muffin

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2006, 13:52:33 »
Heres somthing to ponder is it fair to collect a full mil retirement pension then go to work on base fulltime with so many unemployed younger people out there.

Bubba - the military we are referring to here have to apply for the jobs just like everyone else. They used to be excluded from those eligable to compete and now they are included. They have to test just like everyone else.

I too started working here as a Cpl and am now a Civi... but I had to compete for this job 3 times. (Casual, Term AND Indeterminate).

I know a number of ex military who collect their pensions and work for DND. They joined when they were 17-18 like the majority, and released after 25 years .. they have teenage children, mortgages and college to pay for and cannot manage with just the pension alone.

I have been working here for 8 years now, and the hiring policies have changed at least 3 times I can think of.. they change often in the PS.

The only people who are given a fast track into PS jobs are those who were released medically, and they are just moved to the front of the line. It still does not guarantee them the job.

muffin
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Offline bubba

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2006, 21:31:28 »
Muffin i don't disagree with a guy workin and on pension especially since the pensions do not cover the cost of living.IE CPL MCPL SGT pensions arn't that big the higher the rank the better they are.I like the fact that the jobs have opened up to fair compitition.Without unions we would not have things like a safe workplace,pensions,health benefits,weekends,overtime etc etc.Unions do have its share of malingerersjust like every other organization ie military,police,govmt,etc etc.We are alot better off with unions than without.I also think that a soldier who is hurt in the line of duty should go to to the front of the line.
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2006, 21:49:21 »
Unions destroyed the shipbuilding, steel, and mining industries in Britain in the '60s by pricing the labour out of the market, so my dad packed us up and we came to Canada in '68. We lived in B.C, and watched the unions destroy the lumber and fishing industries by pricing the labour out of the market.  In the '90s, the unions have kicked the guts out of the Canadian auto industry, and the steel industry.  How, you may ask?  Sing along with Kat, now..... by pricing the labour.......falalalala........Anyone seeing a trend here?
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Centurian1985

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2006, 22:51:41 »
Got a call three weeks ago from a local CF base.  Have been out for almost 16 months now, and the 3B priority service finally called to let me know that a clerks position for three days a week was open.  Was very pleased to tell the HR staff clerk that a) my qualifications qualified me for a managerial position in HR so I was not interested in a clerk position, and b) I was already working as an HR consultant for triple what the CF was offering me so I really didnt need the offer anyway. 

Went on to a lengthy conversation with the clerk and learned a bit more about how the system worked. 
1) Demonstrated that the system is not very fast.  The emphasis is finding positions for those former service members who have not been able to find employment anywhere since they were released.  In other words, you want another federal job? Tough cookies.  You're better off applying under a seperate screening and hiring system.   
2) Despite a multitude of federal departments across Canada and a consistent level of job turnover, it is curious that the only federal department who had an opening after 16 months was the CF.  (WTF? this is complete BS) Apparently former CF personnel are not popular with non-CF federal departments, who would prefer to have ex-DFO working for DFO, and ex-RCMP working for RCMP, etc.   
3) Despite years of proven and successful managerial skill and experience, you cannot be employed in any managerial role in a federal department unless you have a degree.  This is because the civil service pay grades are tied to the military pay grades, including education requirements.

Sorry to pass on bad news but it keeps reinforcing the message that if you want to get a good job after you release (or get released), your best 3 choices are to start your own business, find work with a friend, or get a degree damn quick. Your degree doesnt have to be important or relevant to any business.  Get yourself a 3 year coaster program and grab a BS in sociology or babylonian pottery.  They dont care what your grade average was or what courses you took, all that matters is that you got a degree, because your degree automatically guarantees that you are intelligent, can manage people, and are able to accomplish tasks.

Offline GAP

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2006, 22:59:24 »
That sucks...there's got to be some way to break this garbage up, but I don't have a clue
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline bubba

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2006, 08:37:56 »
Lets all sing the non union song with Kat and be workin poor. :crybaby:
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2006, 09:48:58 »
Lets all sing the non union song with Kat and be workin poor. :crybaby:

Or, blindly follow the union policy of demanding too much money for too little work, to the point where your factory moves to Mexico.  Simple choice really, and one I tried to impress on my son, to little effect; $15/hr for 40 hrs/wk X 52 wks/yr  beats $0/hr any time.  I guess I'd rather be working poor than destitute unemployed.  Hey, here's an idea!  After your mine/factory/whatever relocates offshore because of labour costs, you can come to Alberta where the streets are paved with gold (oh, and the unions are, by and large, under control).  Unions served their purpose in the bad old days of kids in coal mines and the 90 hour work week, but the greed got the better of them.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline GAP

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2006, 10:09:00 »
+1
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline ArmyRick

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2006, 10:45:35 »
I agree with you, Kat.

My parents are unioun die hards (they are both retired now). Its too bad, when they formed unions back in the day there was blatant abuse of employees.

However here in Ontario  ::) There is a real **** deal going on. If a man works in afactory he get paid a lousy $10 an hour and work his freaking tail off. I personally think that unskilled but heavy manual labour should have a regulated minimum of around $15 an hour (lets say minimum wages is what $8 an hour?)
I am NOT a privileged white man by virtue of being male or white. I am privileged because I am alive and exercising my right to be who I am!

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2006, 10:50:23 »
It's a crap deal Rick, for sure.  No different than the army though, the higher you go, the less actual PHYSICAL work you do, the better the bank balance come payday.  It's always been cheaper for a company/army to ruin a mans body than work his brain.  Stay in school, kids...
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline bubba

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2006, 11:44:49 »
Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought,when the unions are gone so is are standard of living.If the non union takes over you can kiss the wages you get now gone,guarenteed..I work alot in ALBTA its to bad the unions  gave up so much, theres alot more than just wages involved here.Theres things like work place safty,ongoing education,continued trades training,does the CLAC,Flint ,LEDCOR,care about that stuff i don't think so.Lets talk about wages union, nonunion theres still a set labour rate per man hour when the job is bid.Do you agree.So why do you want to bow down and let the coy pay as little as possible to you.The unions are organised to negotiate the rate under fair negotiating policies with govourment.Where as all the non union guys get is what the coy wants to give them take it or leave it.The none union coys put more mony in there bank off your work, right on. I work with alot of guys from BC its well known what happened out there once the govt allowed non union to bid on industrial contracts.The clac and its lower standard of tradesmen saved money initially,but there repair rate and injury rate cost the coys a lot more money in the end.The end cost of a job is all that matters on the bottom line.IMHO most people that don't like unions are guys who tried to get in and could not. So to end this reply for now don't take it personnly Kat,im sayin it the way i see it as do you.Its too bad that alot of skilled labour left your province because theres not many left to pass on the tricks of the trade to the young guys maybe thats part of the reason alot of big jobs left BC.
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2006, 12:12:18 »
Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought,when the unions are gone so is are standard of living.If the non union takes over you can kiss the wages you get now gone,guarenteed..I work alot in ALBTA its to bad the unions  gave up so much, theres alot more than just wages involved here.Theres things like work place safty,ongoing education,continued trades training,does the CLAC,Flint ,LEDCOR,care about that stuff i don't think so.Lets talk about wages union, nonunion theres still a set labour rate per man hour when the job is bid.Do you agree.So why do you want to bow down and let the coy pay as little as possible to you.The unions are organised to negotiate the rate under fair negotiating policies with govourment.Where as all the non union guys get is what the coy wants to give them take it or leave it.The none union coys put more mony in there bank off your work, right on. I work with alot of guys from BC its well known what happened out there once the govt allowed non union to bid on industrial contracts.The clac and its lower standard of tradesmen saved money initially,but there repair rate and injury rate cost the coys a lot more money in the end.The end cost of a job is all that matters on the bottom line.IMHO most people that don't like unions are guys who tried to get in and could not. So to end this reply for now don't take it personnly Kat,im sayin it the way i see it as do you.Its too bad that alot of skilled labour left your province because theres not many left to pass on the tricks of the trade to the young guys maybe thats part of the reason alot of big jobs left BC.

How am I not supposed to take "Your right out of er Kat with that train of thought" personally?  You're right, I've never had a union job, as I was a soldier from the age of 17 to 41.  After that I got a non union job the same day I walked out the main gate for the last time.  I got this job based on a certain expertise I have, and my boss pays me more than a unionized guy would get, as he knows that he can't afford to lose me.  And what killed the BC lumber industry in the '70s was the IWA policy of striking every year or two, holding the entire province for ransom.  I was raised in a mill town on the  west coast, don't lecture me on what caused the crash, I lived it.  To this day I cannot eat salmon, because when the IWA was on strike, which was most of the time, if we didn't fish, we didn't eat.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline muskrat89

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2006, 12:32:03 »
Companies are in business to make profits. Every individual has an opportunity to form a company, and go down the same path. If you think "the man" is sticking it to the little guy, go out and become "the man". It's a free country.

I did belong to a Union once. It confirmed all of my pre-conceived notions about Unions. I am willing to concede that one experience does noy make me an authority. I do know that most of the union guys I went to trade school with (millwright) no longer have their jobs - mines and mills, mostly.

I will also grant that, generally, if a company is treating their employees well, there would be no need, nor desire, to unionize. As someone mentioned, they did serve a purpose, once upon a time.

Besides that, let's debate the issue, and keep it civil...
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Offline karl28

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2006, 13:35:46 »
The Bigest problem today is especially in the Trenton and Belleville area is Temp agency allot of factories will hire through these temp agencies at a much cheaper cost but expect the workers to do the same as one of there Full time employees . When I was younger I had this experience working through a temp company making $8 an hour and the factory full timer was making 15 .
          I am currently employed at a call center doing tech support allot people don't think its a good job but my self I think its an excellent  I am making 10.75 an hour with benefits so I am not complaining in this area its good deal for unskilled workers and the company does try its best to make it a decent place to work for . My ultimate goal is join the army in a years time but if for what ever reason I cant than I will probably stay with this company for the rest of my life cheers hope that every one is  having a great weekend

Offline bubba

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2006, 16:20:40 »
Yeah its a good debate an i agree lets keep it clean.One thing alot of people don't know is that usually during negotiations the first concession the trade unions give up is its right to strike.Probally because of all the wildKating in the 70's,so no more tying up jobs.There are now conracts involved which mean fines.Imo i think alot of raw material jobs ie strip mining,forestry,fishing,etc left because either the resourse ran out or the damage to the envirement was to costly to repair.So coy goes bankrupt blames manpower and leaves ,leaving the prov to foot the bill for cleanup.Heavy industry from the 70 destroyed are envirement imo.And now with being part of the global community its hard to compete with forien workers who work for pennies and countries that could care a less about the envirement.Anybody watch the national geographic show how ships full of pcbs are scrapped in India.Any way time to get drunk later folks.LOL
attitude it ain't on the kit list,but ya better have one!!

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2006, 16:25:24 »
"....wildKating..."


 Very good, I see what you did there....that's hilarious!

  Resources ran out?!  Never seen a map of BC, I take it.  The forestry fell because the labour to produce it cost too much, and it cost too much because the IWA had the government of BC by the wrinklies, not the other way around, full stop.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2006, 16:28:43 by Kat Stevens »
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Casing

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2006, 19:27:01 »
I found this thread extremely interesting.... until it was hi-jacked with 'union' posts.  How about a split so we can keep this one on track?

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2006, 19:40:26 »
Well!

I was going to split it if I could find a defined Hijack, but there really isn't one.  Unions are involved in this matter.  The Civil Service Unions (more than one) are involved and complaining about Ex Service and Reserve Personnel being fast tracked into their jobs.  They fear the work ethic of ex-military personnel in their 'work environment'.  So there is no hijack to speak of.  We are discussing the fact that Unions are involved and that Unions may be the 'ruin of the country'.  It seems a natural line to follow and cover in the conversation
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Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2006, 19:45:48 »
I agree with George, the subjects intertwine but not the pro/anti union thing. :argument:



Lets keep the union talk in the context of the topic......
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2006, 00:14:58 »
More of a tangent than a hijack, but I apologize, won't happen again, just one of my hot buttons...
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline Casing

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2006, 12:27:33 »
Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I meant what Bruce said regarding pro/anti arguments.

Offline STONEY

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2006, 14:12:54 »
HI guys i thought i'd pass on my story for your edification. I was a serving member of the Forces (17years ) when i heard of a public service job that was coming up. I went to the Public Service Commision and found out the particulars of the job and filled out an application. I then went to see people who worked at the place i was applying for and found out what i should brush up on & study for the competition. I then competed for the job with written and oral & practical tests against 76 other people many of whom were also servicemen. I won the competition and was offered the job. I then requested my release from the forces and the direct transfer to the Coast Guard of my superannuation.  I transfered with all my time in the forces counted towards sick leave, annual leave  , vacation time , pensionable time and plus started at the highest pay scale for the position because of accrued seniority.  Also because my job was considered was considered essential ,to safety of life, i was not allowed to go on strike even though i was a union member, so i had the best of both worlds. I retired in 2005 but am now back at my old job again ,as a casual employee due to staff shortages so the saga continues.

Cheers Stoney.

Offline Navy_Blue

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2006, 15:14:39 »
To get back on topic here

I think this might be related

From what I here there are a few, well quite a few positions for electrical techs @ FMF Cape Scott.  Allot of our PO2's and PO1's have been given permission to apply.  They are hiring some this year and some next.  From what I'm being told out of 30+ applicants 28 are from the fleet.  The electricians in the Navy are a small trade.  Loosing even 10 to 20+ over the next two years could really change the dynamic and experience level of our techs.  So manning will definitely become a concern. 

From a purely government stand point it makes sense to allow these kind of transfers from mil to civi.  The government may get another 10 to 15 years out of the money they spent training these personnel.  So what if the unions don't like it.  Its not like they are going to start an anti union movement and undermine the unions efforts to get better pay and stop out sourcing.

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Offline Chewie

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Re: Soldiers get inside track on PS jobs
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2006, 19:33:25 »
 :salute: all the power to them in uniform past and present who seek such enployment.
             the fact of the matter is the unions don't like it and I've seen the response first hand
             proof is in the pudding and military members work for their money and noone likes
             to be shown up at work. especially a union member



andy