Author Topic: Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF  (Read 207383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 204,541
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,499
Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« on: October 05, 2002, 14:31:00 »
Does anyone agree with me in that a soldier who falsely accuses another soldier of sexual harassment (and if obviously caught) should they themselves be charged and dishonourably discharged from the military?

humint

  • Guest
Re: Sexual Harassment.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2002, 15:06:00 »
Well, I agree that something should be done. May be not discharged, but severely reprimanded.

Offline Ditch

  • Established 1998
  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 25,522
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,335
  • I routinely step in it, but like conflict...
Re: Sexual Harassment.
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2002, 17:12:00 »
In fact, under the whole SHARP (or whatever they call it this week) policy, there is a clause for malicious/false claims.  If a claimant falsely accuses another of harassment, he/she can be charged. If it was simply a case of misunderstanding, then there are no problems.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline bossi

  • "vae soli, vae victus"
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 2,590
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,765
  • The puck stops here ('War On Ice'!) Fight Smarter!
    • My pix (on MSN)
Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2001, 20:31:00 »
I saw a tiny bit of the Ombudsman's report on live TV today - not enough to be able to comment intelligently.
However, if this Toronto Star article is correct, then it is unfortunate that whomever destroyed the original letter will not be brought to justice (i.e. not only must justice be done, but it must be seen to be done).

Aug. 13, 02:00 EDT   
Report could tarnish military
Allan Thompson
OTTAWA BUREAU
OTTAWA - Canada's armed forces will likely get another black eye with today's release of a report by military Ombudsman André ?arin.

In 300 pages, the ombudsman reviews complaints by a communications officer who alleged he became subject to reprisal after accusing a senior officer of acting improperly.

Capt. Bruce Poulin was a speechwriter at army headquarters in 1996 when he wrote a memo to then deputy army commander, Maj.-Gen. Bill Leach, saying he saw another officer harass a female officer.

The officer Poulin accused of wrongdoing was Col. Serge Labb鬠who led the ill-fated 1993 Canadian Airborne Regiment mission to Somalia. On that mission, one Somali was mysteriously shot dead, another was tortured and killed and a coverup alleged. An investigation took place and the regiment was disbanded.

Poulin alleged Labbé ¨ad sexually harassed a waitress at a mess in the military college Labbé £ommanded that Poulin attended.

Eventually, military police cleared Labbé ¯f the allegations and dismissed the claim Leach had failed to properly investigate the charges initially.

Leach has since retired from the forces. Labbé £ontinues to serve.

In a July, 1996, memo - which Leach later said he never saw - Poulin said he saw Labbé ­aking unwanted sexual advances toward the young woman in the college mess.

Poulin says he hand-delivered his 1996 memo to Leach. Excerpts from Poulin's diary, later given to military police, suggest he also told then chief of defence Maurice Baril.

No probe was launched until Poulin's memo was leaked to the media in 1998. By then, Leach was a lieutenant-general and the army commander.

Military police then probed the allegations against Labbé®Â They separately investigated whether Leach mishandled the investigation but apparently waited several months before seeking a copy of Poulin's memo, which mysteriously disappeared.

Poulin was accused of leaking information to the media. In a news release, he said he found himself ``alone and isolated'' after his allegations became public. ``I had dared to question the behaviour of the `best colonel in the army' . . .'' he said.

Military documents already made public revealed several people recalled talking to Leach about Poulin's memo or remembered seeing the document in his office - though Leach said he had not read it.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2004, 20:52:47 by Bruce Monkhouse »
Junior officers and NCOs who neglect to guide the thinking of their men are shirking a command responsibility.
-Feb 1955 Cbt Forces Journal
Those who appreciate true valour should in their daily intercourse set gentleness first and aim to win the love and esteem of others. If you affect valour and act with violence, the world will in the end detest you and look upon you as wild beasts. Of this you should take heed.
-Emperor Meiji: Rescript to Soldiers and Sailors, 4 January 1883

Offline RCA

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 2,730
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 560
  • Grizzled Old Veteran
Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2001, 22:23:00 »
and the beat goes on

ethics my ***

Master Blaster, you called it.
Ubique

the patriot

  • Guest
Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2001, 21:19:00 »
Um, one count of Conduct Unbecoming of a Canadian Forces Member. Anyone, anyone?! I second, and third that motion (this isn‘t being given Royal Assent is it?!). :(

-the patriot- :cdn:

rcrman

  • Guest
Re: If somebody lied or covered up, shouldn‘t they be charged?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2001, 10:21:00 »
I smell B***S***! Something stinks and I am glad that the Ombudsman is now finding that out. Get the Frebreze going in the halls of NDHQ, crack some windows open...get that smell out of there for once and for all!!! Man yet again...coverups and "sweeping under of rugs". Hasn‘t the public heard enough of this crap? And we wonder why their isn‘t proper funding or public interest in the military these days. "Yes please, I‘ll take two black eyes once again...just like 1994/95 era"
I say air out these problems...and charge these top brass d***s who do absolutely nothing except advance their careers! Maybe some of these Generals who seem to have "horse-blinders" on while in key positions, while dealing with problems should look at their "Principles of Leadership" Cards and their Commission Officer Scrolls now and then!! Man that pisses me off! And hell yes everyone who signs the dotted line should/is accountable under QR&O and NDA, Code of Service Discipline, etc...Does Leach, like others have SELECTIVE AMNESIA???????? Does anyone know? Maybe it‘s just me?
 :skull: skull: :skull: skull: :fifty:

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Grubby ]

Offline lubi125

  • Guest
  • *
  • 260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13
Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2013, 15:19:36 »
Do excuse me if you find the title somewhat inappropriate or obscene.

So I recently dropped off my applications, but my parents and a person of great influence have been "warning" me of how I might get raped by other men whilst in the military, probably in the effort of deterring from joining the Army overall. I currently am applying in the Reserve for Field Artillery, considering I get through the application process, pass the tests and get to BMQ, is there truly a reasonable possibility this may happen? I've started even question if my choice was good after all and that it may actually happen that I get "rapped" or "gang raped" whilst in the military.

Forgive me if this sounds completely absurd to some, but they (or he) make it seem like it will happen to me.

Has anyone ever heard of such occurrences in the reserves or even in the CF in general?

Thanks !
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 15:25:03 by lubi125 »

Offline northernboy_24

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 1,596
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 79
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2013, 15:28:01 »
NO, full stop.  If it were to happen then the offending parties would be subject to the National Defence Act and the Criminal Code of Canada. They would be charged, tried and put in jail if convicted as every other citizen of Canada would if a similar offence occurred in a civilian organization.  Anything that is illegal in Canada is illegal in the Canadian Forces.  Whoever told you that is completely wrong and if it is a serving member of the CF then they need to get smacked and realize the damage they are causing the reputation of the CF and its members.

I really hope that they are just kidding with you.  If not then they need to grow up.

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 453,725
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,573
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2013, 15:29:46 »
Maybe it happens back in the motherland; not here.  Welcome to Canada.
I even read works I disagree with;  life outside  an ideological echo chamber.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    is back. Still says fitness, not drugs.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 225,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,472
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2013, 15:31:06 »
I guess the hundreds of women who post regularly on army.ca have just gotten used to being raped so they don't mention it anymore.
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline lubi125

  • Guest
  • *
  • 260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 15:32:03 »
Maybe it happens back in the motherland; not here.  Welcome to Canada.

Ah yeah thinking of it, that person of great influence I was talking about did do military service in China... but I was born in Canada.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 370,475
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 20,388
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 15:32:54 »
I can say during 11 years of Reserve service, I never even HEARD of such a thing, and you're going to hear a lot of the same from others.

I'm very curious:  where did your parents and this "person of great influence" get this idea?  First-hand experience?  "They say..."?  This actually happened to someone?  In Canada?  In the Reserves?  How do they "know" this allegedly happens?

Ah yeah thinking of it, that person of great influence I was talking about did do military service in China...
I see ....

“Most great military blunders stem from the good intentions of some high-ranking buffoon ...” – George MacDonald Fraser, "The Sheik and the Dustbin"

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline Beadwindow 7

  • Life is cruel, and I am but a small slice of life
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 42,265
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,126
  • ZBM2
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 15:35:05 »
The only thing that'll rape you in the CF in paperwork...I guess by that reasoning, an annual PRV could be considered a gang rape. But that's it....
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline SentryMAn

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 7,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 326
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 15:59:02 »
Wasn't there a movie out about the US Military that involved a Generals daughter getting raped on a training excercise or something?

I think these "people of higher influence" have been watching too many movies and other things. 

Offline Occam

    Go RRRRRRRREDBLACKS!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 88,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,934
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2013, 16:09:16 »
Wasn't there a movie out about the US Military that involved a Generals daughter getting raped on a training excercise or something?

Coincidentally enough, that movie would be "The General's Daughter".

Offline the 48th regulator

    When you smoke the herb, it reveals you.

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 43,445
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,902
  • Emancipate yourself from mental slavery.
    • Green Veterans Canada
Re: Rape/ sexual harassment in reserves??
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2013, 16:13:17 »
Locked.

Really.  No, Really, you think that your question was appropriate, considering you were born and raised in Canada??  Were you raised in a bubble?

dileas

tess

milnet.ca staff
I know that I’m not perfect and that I don’t claim to be, so before you point your fingers make sure your hands are clean.

Offline pbi

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 32,680
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,641
Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2014, 21:06:03 »
CBC.ca is carrying a take-up of a piece by Macleans (haven't read it yet) which alleges that the extent of sexual assault in the CAF has reached "epidemic" proportions:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/maclean-s-alleges-disturbing-levels-of-sexual-assault-in-canadian-military-1.2621333

The CBC piece mentions exactly TWO cases: one in Wainwright (the CO) and one in Pet (Cpl Gallagher). How is this an "epidemic"?

Has anybody seen the Macleans piece yet?
The Nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools. ...

The true measure of a man is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out...

Offline Schindler's Lift

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 18,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • http://goo.gl/1E5Ez0
Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2014, 21:12:22 »
It looks like MacLeans is set to release a cover story on the topic of sexual assaults in the CF.  From the tone of this teaser I'd guess they have concluded the issue has gotten no better over the years.  I havent seen what is coming out and I'm certainly not judging one way or the other.  I'm just letting others know so they can follow the story once its released.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/our-militarys-disgrace-a-preview-of-our-latest-cover-story/

Offline Shamrock

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 44,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,339

Offline Jungle

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 34,460
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,181
Re: Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2014, 22:08:38 »
This extract caught my attention:
Quote
Every day, five individuals in the Canadian military community become victims of sexual assault.

Five a day, everyday ?? That's close to 1900 every year... I know this stuff happens, like it happens in society, but I seriously doubt it happens in those numbers.
"I am a Canadian, free to speak without fear, free to worship in my own way, free to stand for what I think right, free to oppose what I believe wrong, or free to choose those who shall govern my country. This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold for myself and all mankind."
- John G. Diefenbaker. July 1, 1960. From the Canadian Bill of Rights.

Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 204,541
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,499
Re: Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2014, 22:15:03 »
This extract caught my attention:
Five a day, everyday ?? That's close to 1900 every year... I know this stuff happens, like it happens in society, but I seriously doubt it happens in those numbers.

I was just about to quote the same comment.  5 a day sounds like total bullshit.   
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 22:22:58 by ObedientiaZelum »

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    is back. Still says fitness, not drugs.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 225,870
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,472
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2014, 22:17:27 »
Every day, five individuals in the Canadian military community become victims of sexual assault, according to statistics obtained through Canada’s Access to Information Act.
The numbers show military police have received between 134 and 201 complaints of sexual assaults every year since 2000, which averages out to 178 per year.


Now, I'm no freakin' math genius......
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline recceguy

    A Usual Suspect.

  • "Look, I don't know if shooting penguins will help the environment or not. But I do know that the decision shouldn't be in the hands of people who just wanna kill for fun."
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Myth
  • *
  • 220,247
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 17,137
  • doddering docent to the museum of misanthropy
    • Army.ca
Re: Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2014, 22:20:47 »
This extract caught my attention:
Five a day, everyday ?? That's close to 1900 every year... I know this stuff happens, like it happens in society, but I seriously doubt it happens in those numbers.

And that would be only what's been reported. I guess that, in total, everyone in the military would be assaulted within a ten year period using their figures ::)

I'm not trying to minimize or cast doubt on anyone that's come forward. I appreciate their bravery to end this type of crime.

However, you would have to rethink MacLeans motives for the article, if straight out of the gate they appear to be sensationalistic about it and inflate their numbers for shock value

That's just a gut feel though. I'll have to read the whole thing before I convince myself of their motives.
At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats.
-P.J. O’Rouke-


DISCLAIMER - my opinion may cause manginal irritation.

Offline Hatchet Man

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 39,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,862
Re: Upcoming MacLeans Article - Sexual Assaults in the CF
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 22:21:16 »
CBC.ca is carrying a take-up of a piece by Macleans (haven't read it yet) which alleges that the extent of sexual assault in the CAF has reached "epidemic" proportions:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/maclean-s-alleges-disturbing-levels-of-sexual-assault-in-canadian-military-1.2621333

The CBC piece mentions exactly TWO cases: one in Wainwright (the CO) and one in Pet (Cpl Gallagher). How is this an "epidemic"?

Has anybody seen the Macleans piece yet?

Perhaps now that the war is over, it will be easier to take digs at the CF?  This has certainly been a big issue in the US, perhaps inventing a crisis out of two incidents the CBC is trying to get more people to tune in and thereby recoup lost advertising dollars [/conspiracy]