Author Topic: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)  (Read 332949 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1275 on: March 18, 2017, 09:59:10 »
I will touch on a couple things only, I am relaxing in bed ;)

Some fatwas for the bedroom eh?

1).
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First thing, some thing you touched on is one 'toned down' sermon in english, for the masses and one far more radical for "devout" in a different language. One simple flaw in this, in many many Mosques is.. we all do not speak the same language ;)

Here's some stuff I pulled from an undercover video taken over 4 months. Fluent English.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0mm5KCMI]
Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham UK. .
1:39- "I don't believe them because they are Kuffar and lying is a part of their religion" (some irony there)
2:30- Christians, Jews, America, UK, France,Germany  "Come against the religion of Islam"  (what does the Quran say to do with people who go against Islam again?_
2:50- American convert to Islam- "We want to do away with man made laws"
4:09- Speaker doesn't agree with violent terrorists, but he's closer to them then the criminal kaffir.
4:39- If a Muslim doesn't follow their strict rules "bury him with the Kaffir"
4:51- "Muslims shouldn't be happy living in anything other than a total Islamic state"

I'll stop there but there's almost an hour of this stuff.

Green lane mosque also has a secret chat room set up where other sermons get broadcasted to a select group of followers. Any guesses on what they talk about?

Sorry Abdullah, because of videos like this I'm not buying the "extremely isolated instances" mantra.

2).
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Second thing, you imply that Muslims do not self report. Anecdotally I can tell you that is not the case
If that is what I came across as implying then that's mistaken. Luckily Muslims do self-report. From reporting their peers down to reporting their own family members (as incredibly hard as I imagine that is). I think there's considerable obstacles that come with "self-reporting" such as the threat of violence and ostracization.  I think in many cases too people don't see things talking about killing unbelievers as hate speech because they've become accustomed to hearing it.

3).
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Thirdly, this more eccentric? Idea you have that we are like a sleeper cell just waiting for the code word to rise up and take over... gosh darn it, you figured us out, the games over, you win 😂I wish you could understand how ludicrous this sounds man
I don't think I was implying that at all. You're kind of moving the goal posts there.  I've said numerous times I think the flash to bang of how quick followers of Islam go from every day people to violent outraged mobs is much quicker and pronounced than any other religion.


4).
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Fourthly, context. Sorry, but I do not trust anything, at all, unless I know the complete context. Just like a guy pointing and firing a firearm at another person, context matters. If a guy is robbing a bank and does it, he is a murderer and deserves the gallows. But if he is a soldier under fire, it is something completely different. So until we know who, when, why, where etc something was said or done, their is absolutely no point in making any judgements on it. Especially with Islam you need to understand, who, were, when, why and how it was traditionally or classically, implemented and contrast that to this day and age and compare it to the legal framework of the sharia, before passing judgement.

This simply seems like a convenient way to justify unacceptable by todays standard speech to me.
"Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like' I don't think they're talking about which direction to drive there.

5).
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Fifthly, you asked about my opinion on something to do with Islamic sharia. Well my opinion is worth mud on these matters, I am in now way, shape or form eligible to pass an opinion on them.

Now I find that very strange. Why aren't you able to pass an opinion on them Abdullah?  An opinion is just an opinion after all. With the amount of Mosques you've visited, your Islamic contacts all over the world, all the reading and reasearch you've down and your self-professed love of the academic side if Islam I would think you're in an exceptional position to offer an opinion.  But, I've noticed you often respond to questions like this by attempting to send the question asker elsewhere to read up on someone elses words. Other websites.

If I was a suspicious sort.... I would wonder if this was a subtle attempt to spread the word of Islam  >:D
But really, I find it quite strange.



6).
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But here is a read up on taqqiya, but I swear I have covered it before already.. or maybe not, a lot of Islamophobes scream taqqiya and it is quite annoying, to be honest.
What's your definition of an Islamophobe, Abdullah?



7).
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I am sticking to my guns that Muslims do self report as the FBI said
No disagreement here


8).
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lets just say I am up to 3 or 4 death threats now 😂. Next step since Facebook is not shutting it down is the RCMP.
You'll have an easier time getting FB to shut down the page if you report them for being right wing.

9).
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Also I did not ignore your bmq example on purpose, i just forget about it and do not feel it is apples to apples here
I'll wait for it to sink in  ;)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:27:59 by Jarnhamar »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1276 on: March 18, 2017, 12:41:55 »
Words from a Canadian Ex-Muslim.

http://www.sedaa.org/2017/03/where-is-the-solidarity-with-ex-muslims/
Quote
If you prick us, do we not bleed?

In the Merchant of Venice, Shakespeare wrote those words for a Jew to say, but today, those words will come from the mouth of an ex-Muslim.

I normally try to stay positive and veer far away from the victimhood narrative, as I was raised to think of myself as a victim when I was a Muslim. I was taught that the big, bad non-believers all hated us and wanted us dead and don’t care about us and that we should hate them back, we should never trust them, and indeed, that we should kill them.

But growing up in Canada, I saw no evidence of that. My teachers weren’t Muslim, but they were kind and loving.
More at the link.


On the Author
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Yasmine is a Canadian citizen of an Arab background. She has written a memoir about her journey out of Islam, ‘Some of my best friends are Jewish, and other confessions of an ex-Muslim’.

She endured decades of physical and mental torture. She was forced into a marriage with a member of Al Qaeda, after he was bailed out of prison by Osama bin Laden himself.  She wore a niqab, and lived in a home/prison with paper covering all the windows. Yet, somehow, with nothing but a high school diploma and a baby in tow, she got out.





Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1277 on: March 18, 2017, 15:10:17 »
1) Muslims represent, 4.5% of the UK's population coming in around 2.7 million adherents and you found one mosque. Now if you were finding hundreds of Mosques spewing extremist crap, then I would give you a leg to stand on. But yes the bad, is very bad and it exists, but it does not mean the majority of Muslims are bad.

2) Sorry I misread you there, my bad. But I highly doubt we are desensitized to hate speech, any Imam who talks about killing the kuffar, gets noticed and reported. I have access to two tafsirs of Quran and the verses people use to legitimize killing the non-believers are not explained that way in the Tafsirs and Qurans i have seen. But yea, if you take it out of context it is easy to get there. But I assure you stuff like this is not widespread. I am on the road right now ill try to find something later to back my stuff up.

3) Twice I misread you, again I am sorry. I think the so called 'flashbang' has more to do with cultural, political or social issues then religious issues. Otherwise the Muslim countries that do not have these flashbang issues, would. Also looking to the riots in the US and protests etc.. I think I have something to stand on.

4) Oh the things I will never get you to agree on 😂 but I understand your viewpoint and I can respect that but I do not agree.

5) If you ask my opinion on things not to do with sharia principles, guidelines or laws. Ill give you an opinion. But if you ask my opinion on those things, it is the equivalent of asking a first year engineering student to design you plans for a thermo-nuclear reactor or some such nonsense, i simply do not have a strong enough grounding and I am not confident enough to give opinion. Until and unless I get that well rounded education, I won't give opinions.

I hope that suffices.. but then again, if you became Muslim, I just have to say, i would probably find myself extremely amused at the irony lol. But alas I assure you I am not doing that.

6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe. My definition, which i have never articulated is basically.. Anyone who has a fear or phobia of Islam but lacks even the most rudimentary knowledge of Islam and actively combats Islam out of ignorance. You, I find you to be a critic of Islam, because you seem to actually know some things about Islam. So I guess knowledge and how actively you fight against Islam makes the difference. If you are ignorant but do not do anything either, I would not consider that person an Islamophobe.

7) 99 more points to go 😂

8) I agree with that sadly.

9) once my gut falls off and I finish BMQ, I will get back to you 😂
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1278 on: March 18, 2017, 20:36:56 »
AbdullahD, I am one that for the most part stays on the sidelines. However I appreciate both jarnhamar and yourself discussing this topic in a civil manner. It helps people like myself gain insight into the various topics.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1279 on: March 19, 2017, 13:05:43 »
Quote from: AbdullahD

5) If you ask my opinion on things not to do with sharia principles, guidelines or laws. Ill give you an opinion. But if you ask my opinion on those things, it is the equivalent of asking a first year engineering student to design you plans for a thermo-nuclear reactor or some such nonsense, i simply do not have a strong enough grounding and I am not confident enough to give opinion. Until and unless I get that well rounded education, I won't give opinions.

I find this very contradictory given the following quote from you back in July of last year where you appear comfortable and confident discussing Shira law, including how your opinion that people "misinterpret" it, which to me means you must have a solid understanding of it.


Now their are things that are covered by Islamic law and the sharia.. and things that are not. There are things that are considered obligatory and things that are considered encouraged or neutral or disliked. The sharia gets a lot of hate, because people misinterpret it and force people to do things (which i may add is forbidden).

I am a believer that the Sharia is comprehensive, but not exhaustive. Ie within the sharia you can find tips for how to get deals suchs as getting three quotes for a price before buying.. but it is not obligatory to follow these guidelines and the sharia wont explain to you why GMC products are so much better then Ford's.

The sharia's main goal is to get everyone to paradise, outside of this main goal there is a lot  of lee way. Heck the sharia will teach you sex etiquette but it is hardly obligatory to follow it all lol, so yea it is comprehensive and the more you follow it the closer to God you can become but! You dont need to follow every single thing.


As you can see above it seems you are confident in telling us what Sharia's main goal is and feel it is comprehensive. Not something suggested by a neophyte.
But now you don't have an opinion on anything relating to it? I'm sure you understand my confusion  ???


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6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe.

Thanks Abdullah I appreciate that though I wouldn't have been insulted had you said otherwise. According to many definitions even disliking the religion of Islam makes me an Islamophobe.
As far as fear goes if I have a fear of something it's that that Canada will begin looking like Germany, Sweden, France etc.. while our leaders live in gated communities with armed security waving to the rest of Canada telling us everything is fine (that's possibly crossing over into another topic though).



With that, I believe I've said all I can on the subject and I'm just going in circles. I will bow out for the time being until I can offer something more substantial.

 

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1280 on: March 19, 2017, 13:44:45 »
My first quote was dealing with a specific thing, you wanted my opinion on, something that scholars need to give fatawa on. And something I lack the ability to reproduce from memory.

My second quote are general statements that I believe to be true and can attribute to different scholars directly. So I can trust myself their. Mufti Aasim Rashid, Mufti Menk, Mufti Abu Layth, Mufti Atabek Shukrov etc etc for the misinterpret one. Moulana Mazhar, Moulana Islamullah etc for the Sharia being comprehensive. Regarding the sharias main goal is to get someone to paradise, just about every scholar I have ever talked to.

But something as complex as taqqiya or other such things or things even outside my madhab, I can not answer because I simply don't have a solid enough grounding.

If you want Islamic sex etiquette get a book by Mufti Ibn Adam Al Kawthri I think it is. Neat book 😂

I am not a debater usually, so maybe I do not convey what I mean very well on occasion and to be bluntly honest, sometimes I give opinion when I really should not. So sometimes I am strict on it, other times i slip up, but generally speaking I dislike strongly giving and have severe worries about giving opinions on the sharia. But that does not mean I won't screw up, if you see my occasionally screw up and give opinion, just know I do not like it.

Ps also i know my explanation is weak, i am noticing that now and trying to build a better guideline on how I handle these issues in the future. To be honest, this site, is the only place, in the world, were I have to worry about this. So I lack a more defined framework regarding it, but I am working on it and will try to stick to the framework I develop so i do not become a hypocrite.
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Online jollyjacktar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1281 on: March 19, 2017, 21:15:15 »
Gunman wannabe at Orly Airport yesterday, said he was there to die for Allah.  Fuckwit got his wish.

Shared under the fair dealings provision of the copyright act, full story, photos and video at link below.

Quote
Autopsy finds drugs, alcohol in Paris airport attacker
Gunman shot at Paris airport was 'under the influence,' father says
Thomson Reuters Posted: Mar 19, 2017 11:45 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 19, 2017 8:56 PM ET

Police questioned and released relatives of a man shot dead at a Paris airport, as investigators continue to search for clues and an autopsy and toxicology tests found drugs and alcohol in his system.

Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said late on Saturday that the man, named as 39-year-old Ziyed Ben Belgacem, had shouted he was there to "die for Allah" when he tried to seize the gun from a woman air force member on patrol at Orly airport on Saturday morning.

After throwing down a bag containing a can of petrol and putting an air pistol to the head of the soldier, he was shot three times by her colleagues.

More than 230 people have died in France in the past two years at the hands of attackers allied to the militant Islamic Islamist group the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). These include coordinated bombings and shootings in November 2015 in Paris when 130 people were killed and scores injured.

With the country in the throes of a highly charged election campaign before a two-round presidential election in April and May, the attacks fuelled the political debate about security.

Belgacem, who had been in and out of prison for theft and drug offences according to judicial sources, was already on the authorities' radar. They said he became a radicalized Muslim when he served a prison term several years ago for drug-trafficking.

He had been reporting regularly to police under the terms of a provisional release from custody for theft and he did not have the right to leave the country.

Several hours before he was killed, Belgacem had shot and wounded a police officer with his air pistol after a routine traffic stop north of Paris before fleeing, officials said.

Later he entered a bar in Vitry-sur-Seine, on the other side of Paris about 10 kilometres from Orly, and opened fire with his air gun without hitting anyone. He also stole a car before arriving at the airport.

Regret after police stopped car

Belgacem's father, who was initially detained by police but then released, denied his son had been involved in terrorism.
"My son has never been a terrorist. He has never prayed: he drinks. And, under the influence of alcohol and cannabis, this is what happens," the father, whose name was not given, told Europe 1.

He said he had received a phone call from his son in which Belgacem referred to shooting the police officer, saying: "I ask your forgiveness. I screwed up with a policeman."

The Paris prosecutors' office said toxicology tests conducted as part of an autopsy found traces of cocaine and cannabis in Belgacem's blood.
He also had 0.93 grams of alcohol per litre of blood when he died Saturday, the prosecutors' office said. The legal limit for alcohol while driving in France is 0.5 grams per litre.

A police search of his flat found cocaine, said Molins, the Paris prosecutor.

A brother and cousin of Belgacem were also questioned by police and then released on Sunday, the judicial source said.
'Our government is overwhelmed,' says Le Pen

Belgacem was born in Paris, according to the prosecutor. French media said his family was of Tunisian origin.
Presidential candidates responded swiftly to the incident.

Conservative François Fillon said that France was in a "situation of virtual civil war" and spoke out against a proposal to lift a state of emergency in place since the November 2015 attacks.

Far-right candidate Marine Le Pen, running on an anti-immigration, anti-EU ticket, said the Orly attacker could have caused a "massacre."
"Our government is overwhelmed, stunned, paralyzed like a rabbit in the headlights," she told an election rally.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/paris-orly-airport-man-shot-by-soldiers-1.4031797

Online jollyjacktar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1282 on: March 23, 2017, 12:46:05 »
Quote
A Montreal mosque is facing a police complaint and rebukes from the larger Muslim community after a video of an imam delivering a sermon in which he asks for Jews to be killed surfaced online.

The sermon took place at the Dar Al-Arqam Mosque in the city's Saint-Michel neighbourhood on Dec. 23, 2016.

The video was posted to the mosque's YouTube channel three days later. The imam in the video is Jordanian cleric Sheikh Muhammad bin Musa Al Nasr — he was reportedly an invited guest of the mosque.

In the video, the imam says in Arabic, "O Muslim, O servant of Allah, O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
Part of the phrase references an Islamic hadith, which interprets the words and actions by the Prophet Muhammad.
CBC independently verified the speech and its translation.

Spike in calls about hateful comments since mosque shooting, Montreal police chief says

CBC Montreal has reached out to the Dar Al-Arqam mosque for comment and was told no one was available.
Accused of inciting violence

The video was brought to the attention of B'nai Brith Canada, which filed a complaint with Montreal police on Monday.

The organization said it is totally unacceptable that a mosque would allow this to go on.

"This is inciting violence, and this is inciting radicalization," said Harvey Levine, regional director of B'nai Brith in Quebec.

"It's against the law and has to be stopped," he said, adding that the complaint was filed with the Montreal hate crimes unit.
 
Harvey Levine, regional director of B'nai Brith in Quebec, urged police to act more quickly.

Montreal police confirmed they received a complaint, but would not provide any more information.

Mosque should apologize, says Muslim council

The president of the Muslim Council of Montreal, Salam Elmenyawi, wants to know why the imam was invited. He says the mosque should apologize.

He added that the Dar Al-Arqam Mosque is not one of the more than 40 institutions the council represents.

Imam Ziad Asali of the Association of Islamic Charitable Projects told CBC Montreal's Daybreak Thursday that he was also mystified as to why the cleric was invited to preach.

"I do not understand how this person was invited to come and give a sermon and spread this hatred in Montreal against any community," he said. 

The hadith is one of more than 100,000 that are written in many books, some of which are considered authentic, while others are not, said Asali.

"To use the themes of the Prophet to spread hatred is actually something that is disrespectful towards the Prophet himself," Asali said.

There are mosques in Montreal, the imam said, that embrace a more extremist message.

"These people, not only do they show hatred towards non-Muslims, they even show hatred to us Muslims," he said.

Other complaints

Levine said this is the second complaint against a Montreal-area mosque filed with the Montreal police's hate crime unit in just over 40 days.

He said the police are still investigating that first instance but says they are not taking action soon enough.

"This is totally unacceptable. We want to know why the hate crimes unit has not done something to date yet. This person should be arrested and charged for hate crimes," said Levine.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/imam-sermon-montreal-mosque-1.4037397

Abdullah, this appears to be a clear cut case of hate speech from the pulpit of a Montreal mosque from just before Christmas last year.  A complaint to police about this has been made and is apparently the 2nd complaint in the past 40 days.  This makes me ponder, despite your personal experience of never coming across it yourself in a western mosque, is this then just an eastern NA problem?  Or, is it catch as catch can where you maybe have been fortunate to have missed crap head days at whichever house of worship you were visiting or are the eastern branches of your faith up to no good at times. 

It is heartening to read in the story that there have been objections raised from within your community against this POS from Jordan's sermon.  But the fact that it was posted in video, on the website of this particular mosque after the fact, does suggest to me to be an official sanction of such filth from the powers that be there.  That, isn't cool or acceptable to me by any religious/non religious organization.  I hope the authorities take some affirmative action instead of quailing at the though of offending someone.

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 12:50:24 by jollyjacktar »

Offline Flavus101

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1283 on: March 23, 2017, 13:26:35 »
And yet some are confused when people say enough with this coddling of the muslim religion. We aren't afraid to condemn Catholics, Protestants, Jews, etc. When you elevate one group above the rest it is only a matter of time before they believe that they are superior and can do what they wish without repercussion.

I hope charges come swiftly and the "leadership" of that localities religious institution is removed.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1284 on: March 23, 2017, 13:39:45 »
And yet some are confused when people say enough with this coddling of the muslim religion. We aren't afraid to condemn Catholics, Protestants, Jews, etc. When you elevate one group above the rest it is only a matter of time before they believe that they are superior and can do what they wish without repercussion.

I hope charges come swiftly and the "leadership" of that localities religious institution is removed.

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1285 on: March 23, 2017, 14:17:08 »
Just heard of a Muslim threatening other Muslims at a Mosque in London, Ontario, 20 March 2017.  Never made the MSM.

http://www.lfpress.com/2017/03/19/suspect-arrested-after-threatened-shooting-at-london-muslim-mosque
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Offline Kat Stevens

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1286 on: March 23, 2017, 18:42:32 »
And yet some are confused when people say enough with this coddling of the muslim religion. We aren't afraid to condemn Catholics, Protestants, Jews, etc. When you elevate one group above the rest it is only a matter of time before they believe that they are superior and can do what they wish without repercussion.

I hope charges come swiftly and the "leadership" of that localities religious institution is removed.

It's not a matter of time at all. Islamic extremists, and not so extreme-ists, have always felt it's destiny that they dominate the earth. This just reinforces their belief.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

“In peace there's nothing so becomes a man as modest stillness and humility; but when the blast of war blows in our ears, then imitate the action of the tiger; stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, disguise fair nature with hard-favor'd rage.”

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1287 on: March 25, 2017, 02:47:26 »
Abdullah, this appears to be a clear cut case of hate speech from the pulpit of a Montreal mosque from just before Christmas last year.

Maybe, maybe not. I followed the CBC link, tried googling this Sheikh and tried to find an english version of this video and failed to find anything to give me a wider understanding of what this sheikh was saying. The most I found was this. But it did not help.

Now without any context as to what the sheikh was saying and why, I have to make assumptions. The best I can tell is they are Quoting a Hadith about the end of times, that is traditionally found in the books of tribulations. Source

This Hadith, if it is the one he was talking about, details a prophetic war of Muslims vs the misguided Jews. Misguided being the operative word, a group of Jews will and do exist that follow Judaic beliefs as correctly as they can, this hadith is not talking about them as per my knowledge. This hadith is talking about Jews who have been misguided away from Judaic beliefs and follow the Dajjal (anti christ in christian terms). The full tafsir I can not recall right now, I do not know if Muslims or Jews start the war etc but I do know this hadith is not used by the Sharia (of the four traditional Madhabs) to legitimize anti-semitism or to encourage people to hurt or malign our Jewish brethren. It is used in part, to show the chaos of the end of times.

So if his talk was about the craziness of the end of times, it is not hate speech, in my opinion. But! If he used this hadith to legitimize hating our Jewish brethren, lock him up. Also, reading Deuteronomy or Numbers in the bible, should widen the view a bit. If this is hate speech, then what is in the bible is too. It is not what is written it is about how it is interpreted, how things get understood is extremely important.

 
Quote
A complaint to police about this has been made and is apparently the 2nd complaint in the past 40 days.

Aye, hopefully the police do a thorough job and mayhap we withhold our judgement until hate speech is proven.

 
Quote
This makes me ponder, despite your personal experience of never coming across it yourself in a western mosque, is this then just an eastern NA problem?  Or, is it catch as catch can where you maybe have been fortunate to have missed crap head days at whichever house of worship you were visiting or are the eastern branches of your faith up to no good at times. 

There are more Muslims then I on this site, they can maybe back up or debunk my position. Snippets of a conversation, does not, in my books, make a complete case against someone.

Quote
It is heartening to read in the story that there have been objections raised from within your community against this POS from Jordan's sermon.  But the fact that it was posted in video, on the website of this particular mosque after the fact, does suggest to me to be an official sanction of such filth from the powers that be there.  That, isn't cool or acceptable to me by any religious/non religious organization.  I hope the authorities take some affirmative action instead of quailing at the though of offending someone.

If someone can find the full video, translated, I can form a better opinion on if I agree or not. But right now, I do not have enough to work with to demonize a person, I am sorry. I am sure, if someone only used one paragraph of something I said, they could easily demonize me.. so until I get more information I am withholding judgement.

This Imam Ziad Asali guy, was being a bit spineless though, even the most rudimentary search would show hadiths like this as being Sahih ie perfectly accepted. He should have used his time in the spotlight to give the accepted tafsir of these hadiths, instead of deflecting it and not addressing the issue. Heck for all we know, this Jordanian Sheikh was trying to convince youth that anti semitism is not an Islamic ideal and was explaining the tafsir's of these hadiths. If the Prophet sws wept at the funeral pocession of a Jewish person and personally attended the Death bed of another Jewish person, it should do a lot to lend weight to the arguement that Islam does not encourage anti-semitism

Ill end with an opinion piece, weakly written 😂
http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/opinions/shameless-anti-jewish-propaganda-is-based-on-false-hadith/2013/04/09/

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1288 on: March 28, 2017, 14:54:52 »
How an apocalyptic tradition played into the hands of anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim hatemongers
A Jordanian cleric visiting Canada recently misleadingly cited a hadith without context or explanation, which rightly triggered condemnations from the Muslim community as well as numerous headlines around the world. A hadith is an oral report transmitted from the Prophet Muhammad, and can be incredibly complex as one needs to evaluate all the chains of transmission of a particular statement recorded in a hadith in order to arrive at an appropriate conclusion of what the particular hadith is actually talking about. In this case, a single phrase was cited, one describing rocks and trees calling out to Muslims, “There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”

This is not the first time that this text has been used to foment anti-Semitic sentiment within the Muslim community. Muslim leaders and scholars must forcefully denounce such rhetoric and clarify Islam’s unequivocal condemnation of all forms of anti-semitism, racism, discrimination, and xenophobia. Of course, Islamophobes pounced on the opportunity to trigger alarm bells and generate a new wave of propaganda accusing Muslims of genocidal ambitions towards Jews, and to claim that Islam is inherently anti-Semitic and a threat to Western civilization.

Explanation of the misquoted hadith
A story about a supernatural apocalyptic battle between good and evil

When we look up different narrations of the Hadith in question, we find out that the phrase being quoted is actually part of a larger narrative in the genre of eschatology (the part of theology dealing with the end times and the Day of Judgment), describing the return of Jesus and the apocalyptic battle between Jesus and the Dajjal (Antichrist). [1] In this battle that will take place between the armies of Jesus and the Dajjal, several miracles are said to occur including that the Dajjal will melt when Jesus sees him, and that inanimate rocks and trees will speak and identify soldiers of the Dajjal (Sunan Ibn Majah 4077).

This is a story about a battle between two groups of soldiers involved in war, one side of which is clearly unjust; it does not refer to innocent civilians. And it’s not actually a battle about ‘Muslims versus Jews’! As a matter of fact, Muslims believe that all righteous Christians, Jews, and Muslims will be following Jesus after he returns (Qur’an 4:159), while misguided Christians, Jews, and Muslims will be following the Dajjal. Indeed, other Hadith demonstrate that the vast majority of the Dajjal’s forces will actually be misguided Muslims (Sahih Bukhari 1881).

Jews are amongst the good guys in the Muslim apocalypse

Moreover, the vast majority of Jews will NOT be followers of the Dajjal, as hadith commentaries describe that the Dajjal’s followers will come from only two out of the twelve Israelite tribes, while most Jews will be righteous folk amongst the forces of good uniting with virtuous Christians and Muslims (Fayd al-Bari, Anwar Shah Kashmiri, 4/197). [2] After all, the Dajjal will be a murderous dictator who claims to be God, an anathema to all followers of the Abrahamic tradition as well as to all people of conscience.

Muslims do not believe that rocks and trees will be pointing out random innocent bystanders, but rather soldiers of the Dajjal - combatants who are themselves involved in killing innocent people. It is about these specific combatants in the Antichrist army that rocks and trees will say, “There is one hiding behind me, come and slay him!” The religious identity of the Dajjal’s soldiers includes evildoers from all backgrounds (including misguided Muslims). Other variants of the hadith state that the rocks and trees will simply say, “Here is a rejector of truth hiding behind me!” (Musnad Ahmad 3546), and do not use the word “Jew” to describe them.

Therefore, this hadith describes a future battle between warriors and can only occur after the return of Jesus; in no way can this hadith be interpreted as a prescription to go out and harm civilians or peaceful members of any faith community. The Qur’an explicitly condemns violence against civilians and non-combatants, stating “Whoever kills a soul it is as if he has slain all humanity,” (5:32) and, “So if they withdraw and do not fight you, and offer you peace, then God gives you no way against them,” (4:90). War is only permitted in defense against aggression or to aid the oppressed, as in the case of Jesus fighting against the Dajjal’s forces.

The question of Anti-Semitism and the Armageddon
All three Abrahamic faiths (Islam, Christianity and Judaism) have well-established traditions about a prophesied Messiah who will engage in a battle against the forces of evil in the end times, whether it be the return of Christ who will battle all the nations of the earth, or the coming of the Masiach ben Yossef who will destroy the Edomites and enemies of Israel. [3] All three groups have had to explicate these esoteric eschatological passages in order to steer clear of antagonism towards other communities. In 2012, A DNC County Chairman resigned after he said, “The Christians just want us to be there so we can be slaughtered and converted and bring on the second coming of Jesus Christ.” [4] The Bible describes the Armageddon in painful terms regarding the enemies of Christ/Israel (See: Zechariah 14:12). [5] It’s necessary for people of all faiths to not allow their texts about the end times to be hijacked in a way that validates hateful speech or actions in the present. All Abrahamic faiths have eschatological teachings that are esoteric and require careful critical interpretation. The mainstream leaders of all faith communities have consistently emphasized tolerance and respect for others.

Islam denounces all forms of anti-Semitism and racism
The Prophet Muhammad taught his companions to respect people of all faith backgrounds and to care for everyone. He said, “Donate in charity to people of all faiths” (Musannaf Ibn Abi Shaybah 3/177) [6] and he personally used to donate money regularly to sponsor a Jewish family in his community. [7] When the Prophet saw the funeral procession of a Jew passing by, he stood up out of respect. When some companions pointed out that the deceased was not Muslim, he rebuked them stating, “Is it not a human soul?” (Sahih Bukhari 1250). The lesson here is to respect all humanity. Some Jews converted to Islam and yet others, like the Rabbi Mukhayriq, continued to practice Judaism and still remained on good terms with the Prophet (Seerah Ibn Hisham 1/518). Even when the Prophet passed away, he had his armor mortgaged to a Jewish person (Sahih Bukhari 2759), a narration that shows he maintained good relations with Jews until his death. As the Qur’an says, “(God) does not forbid you from dealing kindly and justly with anyone who has not fought you for your faith or driven you out of your homes: God loves the just,” (60:8). According to Al-Tabari, one of the earliest commentators, this verse encourages good relations with “all the sects, creeds, and religions,” (Tafsir al-Tabari 60:8). These Qur’anic teachings have inspired Muslims throughout the ages. During World War II, the Grand Mosque in Paris rescued Jews fleeing the Nazis and provided them with a safe haven and means of escape. This is the legacy that Muslims must recall and revive.

In addition to respecting other faiths, Islam prohibits harming others and places great emphasis on Muslims maintaining positive relationships with those outside the faith. The Prophet Muhammad issued a stark warning about persecuting others, “Whoever harms a non-Muslim at peace with us will never smell the fragrance of paradise, although its fragrance can be found a distance of forty years of travel,” (Sahih Bukhari 6516). On the Day of Judgment, the Prophet himself will argue on behalf of persecuted non-Muslims and against the Muslims who persecuted them, “If anyone wrongs a non-Muslim at peace with us, violates his rights, burdens him with more work than he is able to do, or takes something from him without his consent, then I will be his advocate on the Day of Resurrection.” (Sunan Abi Dawud 3052). This stunning indictment should make any Muslim think twice before hurting anyone.

Yaqeen Institute will be releasing a full research paper studying the relationship between Muslims and Jews during the lifetime of Prophet Muhammad and during Islamic history by the end of April 2017.

These guys say the Cleric 'misleadingly' quoted this hadith and it is not the first time it has been used to forment anti-semitism in Islamic communities. No source yet, but good read none the less.

Abdullah

Ps Yaqeen Institute website https://yaqeeninstitute.org
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1289 on: March 28, 2017, 16:03:37 »
So then, he's a ******* dickbag who shouldn't be let back into the country as far as I'm concerned.  He's trying to stir crap up and we don't need his kind of trash here.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1290 on: March 28, 2017, 18:00:54 »
So then, he's a ******* dickbag who shouldn't be let back into the country as far as I'm concerned.  He's trying to stir crap up and we don't need his kind of trash here.

Yup.

I don't buy into the BS that he was somehow taken out of context. He's standing up in front of a crowd talking about killing jews. Considering how literal many muslims take this crap he's insighting violence IMO.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1291 on: March 30, 2017, 12:43:05 »
Shared under the fair dealings provisions of the copyright act.

Quote
Calgary mosque tainted by 'dark element' of radicalization to close doors this week

Imam feels relief at new start after cluster of radicalized young men left to fight with terrorist groups

By Devin Heroux, Nazim Baksh, CBC News  Posted: Mar 30, 2017 5:00 AM MT| Last Updated: Mar 30, 2017 5:00 AM MT
A Calgary mosque that became a focus in terrorism investigations after several men who prayed there left to fight abroad is closing its doors Friday — a move that leaves its imam and community with a sense of relief.

Nearly three years ago, CBC News revealed the identities of Salman Ashrafi, Damian Clairmont and others who left Canada to fight with jihadi groups in Syria and Iraq. All had attended prayers at the 8th and 8th mosque in downtown Calgary — whose name originates in its location at 835 8th Ave. SW. Many were killed abroad.

The imam, Navaid Aziz, told CBC News the community plans to begin anew, although it hasn't finalized its new mosque location. There's a sense of relief about finally leaving a place that became synonymous with radicalization, Aziz says.

"It was a place I taught and gave lectures. I performed people's marriages. We celebrated people's births in this mosque," said Aziz.

"Then there was this dark element that lingered over it, that overshadowed and overpowered all of these amazing experiences over something I had no control over, something I had nothing to do with.

"Once that negative incident happened, that was so powerful, that outshined all of the positivity. That's how I viewed 8th and 8th."

Aziz recalls a time he wanted to lock himself in a room and not come out. But now he's stepping out of the mosque and into the community.

In mid-March, Aziz organized the Stronger Together conference in Calgary. Hundreds of Muslims attended to address challenges facing the community.

It's a far cry from April 2012, when Aziz arrived from Montreal. There was no handbook or training manual for what he was about to encounter

In early 2014 Calgary began dominating headlines as Canada's jihadi hotspot.

Aziz felt the community wanted someone to take responsibility for the men radicalizing in a room connected to the mosque. So he did, even though he says it was impossible to know for sure what was going on

"I saw them a couple of times, but I never saw anything first-hand that would arouse my suspicion. In front of me nothing ever happened," Aziz said.

"I could never infiltrate that circle," he said. "Eventually, I find out that they're gone."

Clairmont, Ashrafi, Tamim Chowdhury, Ahmad Waseem and brothers Gregory and Collin Gordon — who converted to Islam and became known to members of Calgary's Muslim community as Abdul Malik and Khalid — left  Canada months apart. They were all killed fighting under the banner of ISIS

There have been no confirmed reports of the death of Farah Shirdon, another member of the 8th and 8th mosque. Shirdon, who was enrolled in the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology in Calgary until at least 2012, got worldwide notoriety when he appeared in an ISIS video released in 2014.

Before burning his Canadian passport, Shirdon, in full view of the camera lens, issues a threat to Canada, the U.S. and "all oppressors."

"We are coming and we will destroy you by the will of God," Shirdon says on the video.

He faces six criminal charges related to his alleged support of ISIS
 
Aziz says he knew Shirdon better than the other men who ended up with ISIS.

"When you think of that moment of where he takes the Canadian passport, tears it up and throws it into the flames, for me that is such a scene out of a Hollywood movie. It was such a dark moment for me," said Aziz.

While intelligence officers and police were looking for the cause of this radicalization, Aziz says he too was once a target.

"I was interviewed regularly after that time," Aziz said. "I would have trouble getting back into the country, getting held two or three hours by CBSA [Canada Border Services Agency] saying my file was flagged.

"I understood where it was coming from but I didn't appreciate the lack of clarity."

Aziz says he wishes he could have had a conversation with officials.

Instead, Aziz says, he co-operated with authorities for months. Police finally came around and saw him as an asset, he says. He went from being an alleged radicalizer to becoming the Muslim chaplain for the Calgary Police Service.

"I said I would love to do it. I want to help people. I want to make the world a better place," says Aziz.

Aziz says the experience at the 8th and 8th mosque has taught him valuable lessons. Today he says he is able to identify signs of radicalization in an individual before it is too late.

Many Muslims were in denial — but that's changing: former CSIS analyst

A former Canadian Security Intelligence Service analyst says security agencies were looking for partners in the community to stem the flow of men joining ISIS — but many in the Muslim community were in a state of a denial that it was happening.

Phil Gurski, who was a strategic analyst with CSIS for more than 30 years, says he wishes Aziz was as engaged then as he is now.
■Talk more politics, less religion, say critics

"He's trying to work with the police, with the authorities to say 'OK, can we work with these people, can we get to these people before it's too late?'" Gurski said.

"That denial has largely left because they know it's happening. We are not trying to say it's systemic, and it's certainly not existential, but it is happening," said Gurski.

Aziz hailed as key ally to fight extremism

CBC News has spoken with Nader Khalil, an RCMP outreach co-ordinator, and Const. Kim MacDonald of the Calgary Police diversity resource team, who say Aziz has emerged as an important ally in the fight against extremism in Calgary.

Muslim parents come to him with their concerns. Security agencies, government officials and interfaith groups say they're leaning on Aziz to help reshape the perception of Muslims in Calgary.

AUTHOR BIOS:

Nazim Baksh is an investigative producer with CBC News based in Toronto. He has won numerous awards over the years for his work on The National, The Fifth Estate and the CBC's documentary unit among more. Since 9/11, he has worked extensively on issues of national security and violent religious extremism.

Devin Heroux reports for CBC News and Sports. He's now based in Toronto, after working for the CBC in Calgary and Saskatoon

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-mosque-radicalization-8th-and-8th-1.4042692

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1292 on: April 03, 2017, 23:21:42 »
Awareness created about Islam
About 113 people attended a Saturday information session hosted by the Vernon Muslim Association
RICHARD ROLKESat Apr 1st, 2017 1:15pmNEWS
 
 
 
 
 
Misconceptions about Islam were tackled head-on.

About 113 people attended a Saturday information session hosted by the Vernon Muslim Association partly as a result of recent mosque killings in Quebec and violence around the world.

“It’s incumbent on every person, and especially Muslims, to stand up and speak out,” said Muhammad William Saleh, who led the discussion.

And Saleh’s first target was the Islamic State, which has created upheaval in Iraq and Syria.

“It couldn’t be anything further from an Islamic state,” he said of the terrorist group.

“This is nothing more than a power grab.”

Some tension arose quickly as a woman took issue with Saleh’s interpretation of British and French colonialism and the impact globally.

“I can’t listen to this. What about the Ottoman Empire?” she said.

As she left the building, Saleh explained that oppression by European and American powers over the years, including propping up dictatorships, has shaped the perspective of individuals in those nations.

“They haven’t seen the good the west has brought to the world. If we are to speak about terrorism, we have to talk about why,” he said.

While some politicians, the media and religious leaders will point to passages of the Qur’an to describe all of Islam, Saleh says that isn’t wise.

“Context is huge. You can’t understand anything without context. A lot of verses are specific to events that happened to Muhammad,” he said.

“The people who are the problem are Muslims without intelligence. They have no understanding of their own religion. If we don’t speak out against these people, what good am I?”

Saleh insists that violence is not part of Islam.

“If the end goal is to have all of you become Muslim, will I achieve that by blowing up your kids? No. If violence is to spread our religion, what kind of religion is that to follow?”

Saleh also touched on the role of women and he says women covering up depends more on the culture of specific countries than it does with Islam itself.

“I have a highly educated wife. I’ve never asked her to cover her head. It’s a choice she’s made,” he said.

Some of Saleh’s comments were challenged and comparisons were made to Christianity.

“If a lot of North American converts to Islam don’t understand what it means, it’s open to interpretation,” said a woman.

However, another person in the audience countered that, “We’re here to learn how to move forward and not to debate what is best, the Qur’an or the Bible.”

A man in the crowd also presented his views.

“This is not a Christian country, this is a secular country. If you look at churches on Sunday, most people are not there,” he said.

Saleh insists that Islam’s roots include the new and old testaments of the Bible and Jesus Christ and Moses are considered important.

“But we believe the Qur’an is the last of those books,” he said.

For Saleh, the key to Saturday’s event was to bring people together and to start a conversation.

“We should never take what the media tells us. We should do our own research and get our own facts,” he said

Muhammad William is a very close friend of mine, our opinions on Islamic matters do differ a bit, but his knowledge far exceeds mine. He has done a number of functions like these and I respect him greatly for it.

Abdullah
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1293 on: April 07, 2017, 18:02:02 »
Stockholm Truck Attack Kills 4; Terrorism Is Suspected
Quote
STOCKHOLM — A man drove a stolen beer truck into a crowd of people in a popular shopping district in Stockholm on Friday afternoon and then rammed it into a department store, killing four people and injuring 15 others in an attack that unleashed bloodshed on the streets of another European capital.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/europe/stockholm-attack.html




[although in fairness the identity of the attacker hasn't been confirmed]

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1294 on: April 07, 2017, 18:45:17 »
Stockholm Truck Attack Kills 4; Terrorism Is Suspectedhttps://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/04/07/world/europe/stockholm-attack.html

I am certain it is just a tragic "truck hits shopping mall accident". Happens every day.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1295 on: April 07, 2017, 19:43:33 »
I am certain it is just a tragic "truck hits shopping mall accident". Happens every day.

Apparently this has the Swedish PM's attention:

Quote
Swedish PM: Everything indicates crash is terror attack
Swedish Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has said everything indicates that the Stockholm truck crash is "a terror attack".

The Swedish intelligence agency also described the truck crash as an attack not an accident.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-crowd-people-stockholm/

Terror in Sweden - although having met a Swede or two I am not sure what a terrorized Swede might look like.  I am not sure it is allowed.
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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1296 on: April 07, 2017, 20:48:32 »
Quote
A suspected terrorist targeted young children deliberately as he drove a hijacked lorry into a crowded shopping street in Stockholm, witnesses claimed last night.

Infants’ buggies were sent “flying through the air”, one Swedish broadcaster reported, as the vehicle zigzagged along the pedestrianised Queen Street shopping district and embedded itself in the window of a department store.

“It swerved from side to side. It didn’t look out of control, it was trying to hit people,” a second witness, Glen Foran, an Australian tourist, told Reuters. “It hit people, it was terrible. It hit a pram with a kid in it, demolished it.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/07/truck-crashes-crowd-people-stockholm/

Lovely.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1297 on: April 07, 2017, 21:29:19 »
Another, truck of peace.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1298 on: April 08, 2017, 16:24:24 »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4393590/Police-officers-Stockholm-attacked-STONES.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline
Quote

Police officers responding to the Stockholm terror atrocity were attacked by a gang of youths who pelted them with stones last night, Swedish policemen have said.

The attack happened last night near Rinkeby, part of the 'immigrant no-go zone' that gained notoriety when President Trump referred to it in a controversial speech in February.

It is thought that the officers were taking part in an operation to arrest a 17-year-old and his mother at an address linked to the 39-year-old prime suspect.

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1299 on: April 23, 2017, 18:46:24 »
These two shitbirds have stepped up to US target lists now.  Hopefully they'll get serviced one of these days soon.

Quote
Former Calgary man Farah Mohamed Shirdon 1 of 2 Canadians added to U.S. terrorist list
Farah Mohamed Shirdon and Tarek Sakr were named as 'Specially Designated Global Terrorists' by U.S.

The U.S. Department of State has added two Canadians to its most-wanted global terrorist list. 
Farah Mohamed Shirdon and Tarek Sakr were named as "Specially Designated Global Terrorists," according to a release from the State Department.

The designation "imposes sanctions on foreign persons determined to have committed, or pose a serious risk of committing, acts of terrorism that threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/farah-mohamed-shirdon-tarek-sakr-u-s-terrorist-designation-1.4081885