Author Topic: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)  (Read 320285 times)

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1275 on: March 18, 2017, 09:59:10 »
I will touch on a couple things only, I am relaxing in bed ;)

Some fatwas for the bedroom eh?

1).
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First thing, some thing you touched on is one 'toned down' sermon in english, for the masses and one far more radical for "devout" in a different language. One simple flaw in this, in many many Mosques is.. we all do not speak the same language ;)

Here's some stuff I pulled from an undercover video taken over 4 months. Fluent English.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0mm5KCMI]
Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham UK. .
1:39- "I don't believe them because they are Kuffar and lying is a part of their religion" (some irony there)
2:30- Christians, Jews, America, UK, France,Germany  "Come against the religion of Islam"  (what does the Quran say to do with people who go against Islam again?_
2:50- American convert to Islam- "We want to do away with man made laws"
4:09- Speaker doesn't agree with violent terrorists, but he's closer to them then the criminal kaffir.
4:39- If a Muslim doesn't follow their strict rules "bury him with the Kaffir"
4:51- "Muslims shouldn't be happy living in anything other than a total Islamic state"

I'll stop there but there's almost an hour of this stuff.

Green lane mosque also has a secret chat room set up where other sermons get broadcasted to a select group of followers. Any guesses on what they talk about?

Sorry Abdullah, because of videos like this I'm not buying the "extremely isolated instances" mantra.

2).
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Second thing, you imply that Muslims do not self report. Anecdotally I can tell you that is not the case
If that is what I came across as implying then that's mistaken. Luckily Muslims do self-report. From reporting their peers down to reporting their own family members (as incredibly hard as I imagine that is). I think there's considerable obstacles that come with "self-reporting" such as the threat of violence and ostracization.  I think in many cases too people don't see things talking about killing unbelievers as hate speech because they've become accustomed to hearing it.

3).
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Thirdly, this more eccentric? Idea you have that we are like a sleeper cell just waiting for the code word to rise up and take over... gosh darn it, you figured us out, the games over, you win 😂I wish you could understand how ludicrous this sounds man
I don't think I was implying that at all. You're kind of moving the goal posts there.  I've said numerous times I think the flash to bang of how quick followers of Islam go from every day people to violent outraged mobs is much quicker and pronounced than any other religion.


4).
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Fourthly, context. Sorry, but I do not trust anything, at all, unless I know the complete context. Just like a guy pointing and firing a firearm at another person, context matters. If a guy is robbing a bank and does it, he is a murderer and deserves the gallows. But if he is a soldier under fire, it is something completely different. So until we know who, when, why, where etc something was said or done, their is absolutely no point in making any judgements on it. Especially with Islam you need to understand, who, were, when, why and how it was traditionally or classically, implemented and contrast that to this day and age and compare it to the legal framework of the sharia, before passing judgement.

This simply seems like a convenient way to justify unacceptable by todays standard speech to me.
"Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like' I don't think they're talking about which direction to drive there.

5).
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Fifthly, you asked about my opinion on something to do with Islamic sharia. Well my opinion is worth mud on these matters, I am in now way, shape or form eligible to pass an opinion on them.

Now I find that very strange. Why aren't you able to pass an opinion on them Abdullah?  An opinion is just an opinion after all. With the amount of Mosques you've visited, your Islamic contacts all over the world, all the reading and reasearch you've down and your self-professed love of the academic side if Islam I would think you're in an exceptional position to offer an opinion.  But, I've noticed you often respond to questions like this by attempting to send the question asker elsewhere to read up on someone elses words. Other websites.

If I was a suspicious sort.... I would wonder if this was a subtle attempt to spread the word of Islam  >:D
But really, I find it quite strange.



6).
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But here is a read up on taqqiya, but I swear I have covered it before already.. or maybe not, a lot of Islamophobes scream taqqiya and it is quite annoying, to be honest.
What's your definition of an Islamophobe, Abdullah?



7).
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I am sticking to my guns that Muslims do self report as the FBI said
No disagreement here


8).
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lets just say I am up to 3 or 4 death threats now 😂. Next step since Facebook is not shutting it down is the RCMP.
You'll have an easier time getting FB to shut down the page if you report them for being right wing.

9).
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Also I did not ignore your bmq example on purpose, i just forget about it and do not feel it is apples to apples here
I'll wait for it to sink in  ;)
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 10:27:59 by Jarnhamar »

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1276 on: March 18, 2017, 12:41:55 »
Words from a Canadian Ex-Muslim.

http://www.sedaa.org/2017/03/where-is-the-solidarity-with-ex-muslims/
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If you prick us, do we not bleed?

In the Merchant of Venice, Shakespeare wrote those words for a Jew to say, but today, those words will come from the mouth of an ex-Muslim.

I normally try to stay positive and veer far away from the victimhood narrative, as I was raised to think of myself as a victim when I was a Muslim. I was taught that the big, bad non-believers all hated us and wanted us dead and don’t care about us and that we should hate them back, we should never trust them, and indeed, that we should kill them.

But growing up in Canada, I saw no evidence of that. My teachers weren’t Muslim, but they were kind and loving.
More at the link.


On the Author
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Yasmine is a Canadian citizen of an Arab background. She has written a memoir about her journey out of Islam, ‘Some of my best friends are Jewish, and other confessions of an ex-Muslim’.

She endured decades of physical and mental torture. She was forced into a marriage with a member of Al Qaeda, after he was bailed out of prison by Osama bin Laden himself.  She wore a niqab, and lived in a home/prison with paper covering all the windows. Yet, somehow, with nothing but a high school diploma and a baby in tow, she got out.





Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1277 on: March 18, 2017, 15:10:17 »
1) Muslims represent, 4.5% of the UK's population coming in around 2.7 million adherents and you found one mosque. Now if you were finding hundreds of Mosques spewing extremist crap, then I would give you a leg to stand on. But yes the bad, is very bad and it exists, but it does not mean the majority of Muslims are bad.

2) Sorry I misread you there, my bad. But I highly doubt we are desensitized to hate speech, any Imam who talks about killing the kuffar, gets noticed and reported. I have access to two tafsirs of Quran and the verses people use to legitimize killing the non-believers are not explained that way in the Tafsirs and Qurans i have seen. But yea, if you take it out of context it is easy to get there. But I assure you stuff like this is not widespread. I am on the road right now ill try to find something later to back my stuff up.

3) Twice I misread you, again I am sorry. I think the so called 'flashbang' has more to do with cultural, political or social issues then religious issues. Otherwise the Muslim countries that do not have these flashbang issues, would. Also looking to the riots in the US and protests etc.. I think I have something to stand on.

4) Oh the things I will never get you to agree on 😂 but I understand your viewpoint and I can respect that but I do not agree.

5) If you ask my opinion on things not to do with sharia principles, guidelines or laws. Ill give you an opinion. But if you ask my opinion on those things, it is the equivalent of asking a first year engineering student to design you plans for a thermo-nuclear reactor or some such nonsense, i simply do not have a strong enough grounding and I am not confident enough to give opinion. Until and unless I get that well rounded education, I won't give opinions.

I hope that suffices.. but then again, if you became Muslim, I just have to say, i would probably find myself extremely amused at the irony lol. But alas I assure you I am not doing that.

6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe. My definition, which i have never articulated is basically.. Anyone who has a fear or phobia of Islam but lacks even the most rudimentary knowledge of Islam and actively combats Islam out of ignorance. You, I find you to be a critic of Islam, because you seem to actually know some things about Islam. So I guess knowledge and how actively you fight against Islam makes the difference. If you are ignorant but do not do anything either, I would not consider that person an Islamophobe.

7) 99 more points to go 😂

8) I agree with that sadly.

9) once my gut falls off and I finish BMQ, I will get back to you 😂
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Offline Flavus101

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1278 on: March 18, 2017, 20:36:56 »
AbdullahD, I am one that for the most part stays on the sidelines. However I appreciate both jarnhamar and yourself discussing this topic in a civil manner. It helps people like myself gain insight into the various topics.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1279 on: March 19, 2017, 13:05:43 »
Quote from: AbdullahD

5) If you ask my opinion on things not to do with sharia principles, guidelines or laws. Ill give you an opinion. But if you ask my opinion on those things, it is the equivalent of asking a first year engineering student to design you plans for a thermo-nuclear reactor or some such nonsense, i simply do not have a strong enough grounding and I am not confident enough to give opinion. Until and unless I get that well rounded education, I won't give opinions.

I find this very contradictory given the following quote from you back in July of last year where you appear comfortable and confident discussing Shira law, including how your opinion that people "misinterpret" it, which to me means you must have a solid understanding of it.


Now their are things that are covered by Islamic law and the sharia.. and things that are not. There are things that are considered obligatory and things that are considered encouraged or neutral or disliked. The sharia gets a lot of hate, because people misinterpret it and force people to do things (which i may add is forbidden).

I am a believer that the Sharia is comprehensive, but not exhaustive. Ie within the sharia you can find tips for how to get deals suchs as getting three quotes for a price before buying.. but it is not obligatory to follow these guidelines and the sharia wont explain to you why GMC products are so much better then Ford's.

The sharia's main goal is to get everyone to paradise, outside of this main goal there is a lot  of lee way. Heck the sharia will teach you sex etiquette but it is hardly obligatory to follow it all lol, so yea it is comprehensive and the more you follow it the closer to God you can become but! You dont need to follow every single thing.


As you can see above it seems you are confident in telling us what Sharia's main goal is and feel it is comprehensive. Not something suggested by a neophyte.
But now you don't have an opinion on anything relating to it? I'm sure you understand my confusion  ???


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6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe.

Thanks Abdullah I appreciate that though I wouldn't have been insulted had you said otherwise. According to many definitions even disliking the religion of Islam makes me an Islamophobe.
As far as fear goes if I have a fear of something it's that that Canada will begin looking like Germany, Sweden, France etc.. while our leaders live in gated communities with armed security waving to the rest of Canada telling us everything is fine (that's possibly crossing over into another topic though).



With that, I believe I've said all I can on the subject and I'm just going in circles. I will bow out for the time being until I can offer something more substantial.

 

Offline AbdullahD

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1280 on: March 19, 2017, 13:44:45 »
My first quote was dealing with a specific thing, you wanted my opinion on, something that scholars need to give fatawa on. And something I lack the ability to reproduce from memory.

My second quote are general statements that I believe to be true and can attribute to different scholars directly. So I can trust myself their. Mufti Aasim Rashid, Mufti Menk, Mufti Abu Layth, Mufti Atabek Shukrov etc etc for the misinterpret one. Moulana Mazhar, Moulana Islamullah etc for the Sharia being comprehensive. Regarding the sharias main goal is to get someone to paradise, just about every scholar I have ever talked to.

But something as complex as taqqiya or other such things or things even outside my madhab, I can not answer because I simply don't have a solid enough grounding.

If you want Islamic sex etiquette get a book by Mufti Ibn Adam Al Kawthri I think it is. Neat book 😂

I am not a debater usually, so maybe I do not convey what I mean very well on occasion and to be bluntly honest, sometimes I give opinion when I really should not. So sometimes I am strict on it, other times i slip up, but generally speaking I dislike strongly giving and have severe worries about giving opinions on the sharia. But that does not mean I won't screw up, if you see my occasionally screw up and give opinion, just know I do not like it.

Ps also i know my explanation is weak, i am noticing that now and trying to build a better guideline on how I handle these issues in the future. To be honest, this site, is the only place, in the world, were I have to worry about this. So I lack a more defined framework regarding it, but I am working on it and will try to stick to the framework I develop so i do not become a hypocrite.
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)
« Reply #1281 on: March 19, 2017, 21:15:15 »
Gunman wannabe at Orly Airport yesterday, said he was there to die for Allah.  Fuckwit got his wish.

Shared under the fair dealings provision of the copyright act, full story, photos and video at link below.

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Autopsy finds drugs, alcohol in Paris airport attacker
Gunman shot at Paris airport was 'under the influence,' father says
Thomson Reuters Posted: Mar 19, 2017 11:45 AM ET Last Updated: Mar 19, 2017 8:56 PM ET

Police questioned and released relatives of a man shot dead at a Paris airport, as investigators continue to search for clues and an autopsy and toxicology tests found drugs and alcohol in his system.

Paris prosecutor Francois Molins said late on Saturday that the man, named as 39-year-old Ziyed Ben Belgacem, had shouted he was there to "die for Allah" when he tried to seize the gun from a woman air force member on patrol at Orly airport on Saturday morning.

After throwing down a bag containing a can of petrol and putting an air pistol to the head of the soldier, he was shot three times by her colleagues.

More than 230 people have died in France in the past two years at the hands of attackers allied to the militant Islamic Islamist group the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS). These include coordinated bombings and shootings in November 2015 in Paris when 130 people were killed and scores injured.

With the country in the throes of a highly charged election campaign before a two-round presidential election in April and May, the attacks fuelled the political debate about security.

Belgacem, who had been in and out of prison for theft and drug offences according to judicial sources, was already on the authorities' radar. They said he became a radicalized Muslim when he served a prison term several years ago for drug-trafficking.

He had been reporting regularly to police under the terms of a provisional release from custody for theft and he did not have the right to leave the country.

Several hours before he was killed, Belgacem had shot and wounded a police officer with his air pistol after a routine traffic stop north of Paris before fleeing, officials said.

Later he entered a bar in Vitry-sur-Seine, on the other side of Paris about 10 kilometres from Orly, and opened fire with his air gun without hitting anyone. He also stole a car before arriving at the airport.

Regret after police stopped car

Belgacem's father, who was initially detained by police but then released, denied his son had been involved in terrorism.
"My son has never been a terrorist. He has never prayed: he drinks. And, under the influence of alcohol and cannabis, this is what happens," the father, whose name was not given, told Europe 1.

He said he had received a phone call from his son in which Belgacem referred to shooting the police officer, saying: "I ask your forgiveness. I screwed up with a policeman."

The Paris prosecutors' office said toxicology tests conducted as part of an autopsy found traces of cocaine and cannabis in Belgacem's blood.
He also had 0.93 grams of alcohol per litre of blood when he died Saturday, the prosecutors' office said. The legal limit for alcohol while driving in France is 0.5 grams per litre.

A police search of his flat found cocaine, said Molins, the Paris prosecutor.

A brother and cousin of Belgacem were also questioned by police and then released on Sunday, the judicial source said.
'Our government is overwhelmed,' says Le Pen

Belgacem was born in Paris, according to the prosecutor. French media said his family was of Tunisian origin.
Presidential candidates responded swiftly to the incident.

Conservative François Fillon said that France was in a "situation of virtual civil war" and spoke out against a proposal to lift a state of emergency in place since the November 2015 attacks.

Far-right candidate Marine Le Pen, running on an anti-immigration, anti-EU ticket, said the Orly attacker could have caused a "massacre."
"Our government is overwhelmed, stunned, paralyzed like a rabbit in the headlights," she told an election rally.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/paris-orly-airport-man-shot-by-soldiers-1.4031797