Author Topic: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)  (Read 23573 times)

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Offline Danjanou

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WARNING: thread split potential

We were discussing this very question at work the other day. Someone raised the idea that the Legion and/or similar agencies could step into the void. Private homecare and eventual PCH care would seem a logical evolution. It might not be as low cost as the Veterans Affairs care, but it could be done economically.

Thoughts?

This was brought up at a Service Officer meeting in Aurora in Feb and it was agreed that branches in the GTA and 905 belt would start a letter writing campaign to MS to change the rules at Sunnybrook which will also revert to the Province after the last Second World War or Korean vet passes. Hopefully it will be brought up at Dominion Convention in June.
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This was brought up at a Service Officer meeting in Aurora in Feb and it was agreed that branches in the GTA and 905 belt would start a letter writing campaign to MS to change the rules at Sunnybrook which will also revert to the Province after the last Second World War or Korean vet passes. Hopefully it will be brought up at Dominion Convention in June.
My knowledge of nursing home/long term care rules in Ontario is very rusty (+10 years old), but even if that happens, a vet would only get preference as long as there wasn't someone in greater need of care?  The "vet" card would break a tie, so to speak, between two folks needing the same level of care, but it wouldn't be a trump card?  Again, I'd love to hear from anyone with up-to-date knowledge of provincial LTC rules/regs on this.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 15:49:36 »
My idea was that these home would be owned and operated by the "Legion et-al" but conform to the provincial standards. That way, the veterans should have priority over other non-veteran applicants.

I can't speak for Ontario, but in other jurisdictions privately run PCH with a defined mandate can't be forced to admit residents where it does not support said mandate.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 16:41:46 »
My idea was that these home would be owned and operated by the "Legion et-al" but conform to the provincial standards. That way, the veterans should have priority over other non-veteran applicants.

I can't speak for Ontario, but in other jurisdictions privately run PCH with a defined mandate can't be forced to admit residents where it does not support said mandate.
If "privately run" means zero provincial or federal subsidy dollars to operate the place, I'm thinking you can have whoever you want. 

Methinks, though (and I stand to be corrected), that the rules for homes receiving provincial $ wouldn't allow "group x" priority ahead of "medical need" priority.  If there's a centralized list of people waiting for long-term care, if candidate A needs a certain level of care, and candidate B needs slightly less care but is a vet, my understanding of the rules is that candidate A has to have first crack at any available bed.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 17:13:09 »
You're probably right, and therein lies the primary flaw in the idea. If the goal is to give veterans greater access, but no preference for veterans is established, then the possibility of veterans being shut out of these PCH looms large.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2016, 17:16:01 »
If the Legion ran nursing homes like some branches run their buildings...
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Offline Danjanou

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2016, 09:50:31 »
If the Legion ran nursing homes like some branches run their buildings...

yup. The Legion set up the Tony Stacey Centre for veterans in Scarborough decades ago. Not sure exactly what happened but they apparently share control with the City and  Province and have little or no say on who gets in, less than a third of the beds are vets and vets spouses now. Legion still gets to pick up the tab for most of the operating  costs resulting in numerous fundraising and poppy donations yearly. Appears to be poorly run and having met some of the board members  from the Legion not surprised,. Not that they are bad people just lacking the skill sets to run it.

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2016, 13:54:24 »
yup. The Legion set up the Tony Stacey Centre for veterans in Scarborough decades ago. Not sure exactly what happened but they apparently share control with the City and  Province and have little or no say on who gets in, less than a third of the beds are vets and vets spouses now. Legion still gets to pick up the tab for most of the operating  costs resulting in numerous fundraising and poppy donations yearly. Appears to be poorly run and having met some of the board members  from the Legion not surprised,. Not that they are bad people just lacking the skill sets to run it.

I am not personally familiar with the Tony Stacey Centre and it's been a few decades since I had firsthand experience with funding of health care services in Ontario, however the internet is wonderful and I was able to find a variety of information that may be of interest and will specifically refute the statement that I've highlighted.  According to the Registered Charity Information Return (T3010) (as presented by Chimp from the information available at CRA) of their roughly $6.7m budget, the majority of funding (67%) is provided by government; the amount from charitable fundraising (i.e. from the Legion) is minimal (3%).  I assume that the rest is mostly from charges imposed on the residents.

To see what the facility has to say about itself:
http://www.tonystaceycentre.ca/about.html
Quote
In August 1976, Tony Stacey Centre for Veterans Care (then called Metro Toronto Legion Village) opened its doors as a retirement home for veterans, their spouses, dependants, silver cross mothers and the community.  In 1994 it changed from a retirement home to a long term care facility.

As to why a LTC facility cannot exclude some and be exclusively for veterans - the simple answer is, if a facility wants to be subsidized by the government they have to abide by government regulations.  In Ontario, those regulations generally provide that admissions to subsidized LTC facilities are centrally coordinated.

As to how well the Tony Stacey Centre performs, there is some information available at CIHI, however the indicators of administrative and financial performance are not available for this particular facility.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2016, 13:59:14 »
As to why a LTC facility cannot exclude some and be exclusively for veterans - the simple answer is, if a facility wants to be subsidized by the government they have to abide by government regulations.  In Ontario, those regulations generally provide that admissions to subsidized LTC facilities are centrally coordinated.
Thanks for confirming that  :salute:
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2016, 14:09:24 »
I remember Metro Legion Village.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 14:17:00 by mariomike »
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2016, 16:28:30 »
Blackadder, thanks the next time the District comes hat in hand for more of my Poppy funds  for TCS I'll  point out some of your info.  From all I've heard including from former tenants the place is poorly run.  Mario that was it's old name as I recall.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2016, 17:39:32 »
Mario that was it's old name as I recall.

I don't know what it looks like now, but it seemed like a well-run place, as I remember.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 18:23:55 by mariomike »
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2016, 14:52:09 »
As to why a LTC facility cannot exclude some and be exclusively for veterans - the simple answer is, if a facility wants to be subsidized by the government they have to abide by government regulations.  In Ontario, those regulations generally provide that admissions to subsidized LTC facilities are centrally coordinated.
Taking that a bit further, we see a bit more backstory to the changes in this CBC story:
Quote
... During the First World War, the federal government operated 44 hospitals across Canada to give treatment to injured soldiers. As universal and provincial health care services evolved, Veterans Affairs Canada said the need for treatment declined. The number of facilities open to veterans reduced and in 1955 there were 18 remaining.

Then in 1966, the Government of Canada decided to transfer all of its federal health care facilities over to the provinces — a move that was only recently completed when Ste. Anne's Hospital was transferred to Quebec in April 2016. Part of the agreement was that Second World War and Korean War veterans would have the same priority access to these facilities.

Meanwhile, modern-day veterans have the same access to long-term care as the general public.

Minister of Veterans Affairs Kent Hehr said the system has evolved — and what's in place today is much better than the old model.

"In fact, veterans have access to over 1,500 places where they're getting care in their communities, where they can be closer to their families," Hehr told CBC News.

"Our veterans are overwhelmingly happy that they're there. They have access to care in their communities, not in some antiquated place far away from home. It's really actually working quite well." ...
Old system:  vets got dedicated beds with other vets.  New system:  more beds closer to home*, but no guarantee/priority for vets, or being with other vets.

* - I question this only because I know in my part of Ontario, waiting lists for ANY nursing home/long-term care bed can be loooooooooong.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2016, 15:07:49 »
As someone who works in the system, I respectfully submit that the Minister is full of cow dung. We have people taking up acute care beds in excess of six months because there's no long term beds. In fact, just inside the Wpg perimeter highway, we're 700 PCH beds short.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2016, 15:33:25 »
As someone who works in the system, I respectfully submit that the Minister is full of cow dung. We have people taking up acute care beds in excess of six months because there's no long term beds. In fact, just inside the Wpg perimeter highway, we're 700 PCH beds short.
So it's not JUST an Ontario thing, then. Then all he can REALLY say is that the new system is good for offering beds closer to home -- if there are any, I guess.
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2016, 15:51:13 »
* - I question this only because I know in my part of Ontario, waiting lists for ANY nursing home/long-term care bed can be loooooooooong.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 16:06:56 by mariomike »
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2016, 22:08:45 »
This video out of Halifax, on the CBC Facebook page:

Quote
Watch: A protest in Halifax at Veterans Affairs Canada over the government's handling of the Petter Blindheim case.
Blindheim is a 94-year-old Norwegian-Canadian war hero who has been denied long-term care at Camp Hill Veterans Hospital.


https://www.facebook.com/CBCNovaScotia/videos/10154457642951842/
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2016, 22:38:06 »
This story pisses me off greatly.  VAC are acting like a sack of dicks, it's not like he's not a second world war veteran or that they don't have bed space.  I hope karma comes to visit them when they're senior citizens.

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2016, 06:59:53 »
This story pisses me off greatly.  VAC are acting like a sack of dicks, it's not like he's not a second world war veteran or that they don't have bed space.  I hope karma comes to visit them when they're senior citizens.
This bit from a Halifax paper editorial ...
Quote
When our editorialist sat down for a brief interview with Kent Hehr on Monday, the federal minister of veterans affairs was clearly in a frame of mind to find a timely long-term care solution for Petter Blindheim.

In fact, Mr. Hehr said that if the premier of Nova Scotia wanted Mr. Blindheim to be cared for at Camp Hill Memorial Hospital in Halifax or in a provincial facility, he would “write him a cheque gladly tomorrow.”

Last week, the premier did lend his support to Mr. Blindheim, saying he should be getting the care he needs and deserves as a veteran ...
... suggests the province doesn't want this vet in a provincially-funded bed, even if the feds pay.  This bit, on the other hand ...
Quote
... The decision was later reversed, but the family was then told he needed to meet "special conditions" to get into Camp Hill. One of the conditions, for example, is if he needed care he could not get in a regular nursing home due to a contagious disease.

On Monday, the family was told Blindheim did not meet the special conditions and he would not be admitted.

According to Blendheim, the family was told they should be pushing the province to see how quickly their father can get a bed in a community nursing home — which has a wait list of up to two years. Blendheim says Camp Hill currently has 13 empty beds and 16 of its beds are occupied by non-veterans ...
... suggests a "pigeonhole" problem:  he's not QUITE the right kind of sick for the fed bed, so even if we have empty beds, we can't take him.

WTF????
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2016, 07:53:41 »
From today's Chronicle Herald.  The Lieberals continue to show their true colours when it comes to Veterans, the same colours they showed when they created the "screw veterans charter".


Quote
Veterans, politicians speak out for 94-year-old man denied hospital bed
 
The Canadian Press

The plight of a decorated 94-year-old veteran seeking a bed in a Halifax veterans’ hospital has turned Liberal against Liberal, with Nova Scotia’s premier unleashing some mildly unparliamentary language to describe Ottawa’s behaviour on the issue.

Stephen McNeil resorted to unusually candid terms after a cabinet meeting Thursday while commenting on a ruling by Veterans Affairs against Petter Blindheim’s bid for a bed at the Camp Hill Veterans Memorial hospital.

“I’m trying to find an appropriate word that I can tell you on the news, but there has been more bureaucratic BS associated with this issue and the national government needs to do the right thing and treat this vet with the dignity he deserves,” the premier said.

“He (Blindheim) was good enough to stand beside our ancestors and defend this country. What he’s looking for is an opportunity to die in the same company of those men that he fought alongside to defend this country and the national government should provide him with that opportunity...

http://thechronicleherald.ca/canada/1373017-veterans-politicians-speak-out-for-94-year-old-man-denied-hospital-bed


Offline George Wallace

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #45 on: June 19, 2016, 09:24:51 »
There are several similar cases happening across the country.  In Ottawa Retired General Belzile was rejected for care at the Perley and Rideau Veterans' Health Centre.

In New Brunswick, this case has also garnered attention:

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.

Quote
Different veteran, same problem: N.B. veteran denied care in veteran’s hospital
CTV ATLANTIC
Published Friday, June 17, 2016 8:12PM ADT
Last Updated Saturday, June 18, 2016 11:12AM ADT

SAINT JOHN, N.B. -- Another veteran in the Maritimes is being denied access to federally-funded care because he completed his war service in a country outside of Canada.

Frank Rusling was a member of the Royal Navy for 10 years, a police officer for another 10, and spent the remaining 30 years of his career as a Canadian Pacific Police Officer.

However, that’s not enough to get the 94-year-old into a veteran’s care facility in Saint John.

“I’m rather surprised about it,” said Frank. “I was always of the understanding that the Canadian Forces and the British Forces were sort of under one umbrella.”

Frank and his wife, Elsie, were under the impression that since he served in the Second World War, and he’s a dual citizen in Canada, that he’d still be able to settle into Ridgewood Veterans Wing.

“It was always assumed that they were veterans, just like the Canadian’s were,” said Elsie. “They were supposed to be part of that, but we found out recently that he’s not eligible for those benefits.”

Elsie takes care of Frank, but she knows she won’t be able to do that for long. The couple says they’re not yet ready to put Frank in a home, but they would like a plan for when that day comes.

Elsie says when he does go, she wants him close by.

“If I had to go a distance to visit him, it would be impossible because I’m 86 myself,” she said. “I thought Ridgewood would be nice and handy, and I could visit often.”

Veterans Affairs says it can’t comment on specific cases due to privacy concerns, but they did send this statement:
“…[A] veteran's citizenship has no bearing on their eligibility for long term care facilities in Canada. While we always work to deliver the support a Veteran needs, it is not always possible to do so in a specific facility of a Veteran's choosing."

That’s the same argument used to deny another war veteran, Petter Blindheim, admittance to Camp Hill Veterans' Memorial Hospital in Halifax.

As for the Ruslings, they say they’ll continue to wait, in hopes Ridgewood Veteran’s Wing will be a place Frank can call home when the time comes.

With files from CTV Atlantic’s Ashley Blackford.





More on LINK.


[Edit to fix code for quote.]
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 10:04:49 by George Wallace »
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #46 on: June 19, 2016, 09:58:05 »
I am sure that DVA and their political masters will always rarely miss an opportunity to come across looking like douchbags at almost every turn (fairly due or not, as optics are always the lead value).  You would think they would want to go that extra step to avoid shooting their feet with a shotgun in the court of public opinion.  Must be a death wish of some sort, like a moth to a flame.

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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2016, 18:27:26 »
The vets ombudsman pipes in on the long-term care debate - highlights mine ...
Quote
Long-Term Care (LTC) has become a hot topic in the media in recent days. The reporting is often emotionally-charged as it deals with meeting the end-of-life needs of elderly Veterans. Without wading into the specifics of the particular cases being struggled with today, these cases do highlight a systemic issue related to the care that Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) Veterans will require as they age over the next few decades. How do we shape tomorrow to meet the evolving needs of our modern day Veterans?

The current LTC programs were developed in the years following the Second World War when no publicly-funded health-care system was available. The CAF Veteran population’s needs are different than those of the War Service (WS) Veteran population that served in the 20th century. VAC estimates that in 2016, 702 CAF Veterans are receiving long-term care support from VAC, and this number is rising – an increase of 64 percent since 2012.

In 2014, my Office published a document entitled Veterans' Long-Term Care Needs: A Review of Assisted Living Options for Veterans. While the LTC program and the Veterans Independence Program (VIP) each address specific health-care needs for Veterans, a gap exists in cases where it is no longer medically advisable or safe for a Veteran to reside at home because of failing health or increasing care requirements. Many aging Veterans, however, are not unhealthy or disabled to an extent that would require them to be cared for in a long-term care facility, but their needs may also not be adequately met.

I believe that within the context of the overall review of VAC benefits now underway, VAC needs to take a serious look at all supports provided to aging Veterans to see if it is meeting their needs. An evidence-based continuum of care strategy needs to be developed that addresses the full spectrum of care needs as modern-day Veterans age. This strategy should consider programs that provide support and options to aging Veterans and their families. In addition to current programs such as VIP and LTC, I would propose that VAC starts looking at other initiatives. For example, the addition of an assisted living option and a family caregiver benefit that provides remuneration and training for family members who sacrifice their lives, careers and income to look after an ill or injured Veteran – both of which may better meet the health-care needs of Veterans.

Without a coherent strategy to ensure that VAC is meeting the needs of aging CAF Veterans, there will continue to be questions about the adequacy of support to a vulnerable, aging Veteran population. I hope that VAC takes advantage of this unique opportunity to shape tomorrow for Canada’s Veterans and their families.

Guy Parent
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2016, 13:52:40 »
One, in ...
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Petter Blindheim, the 94-year-old Norwegian Second World War veteran who’s been making headlines since being rejected from a veteran’s hospital, will finally be admitted into Camp Hill Veteran’s Memorial hospital in Halifax.

Nova Scotia MP Andy Fillmore’s office said Friday morning that they’ve confirmed Blindheim has been offered a bed at the hospital after an ongoing effort involving multiple levels of government.

(...)

Blindheim, a decorated war veteran, was originally denied admittance to the hospital on the grounds that he could receive adequate care at a provincial facility.

In a statement, federal Minister of Veterans Affairs Kent Hehr said the department has reached an agreement with the Nova Scotia Health Authority to expand access for veterans at Camp Hill ...
This, from the Minister's info-machine:
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“Since we became aware of the challenges faced by Veterans in accessing long term care in Nova Scotia, we have been working very closely with Nova Scotia Members of Parliament and the Nova Scotia Health Authority to find a solution that ensures the well-being of our Veterans and of our Allied Veterans.

    “Today, I am pleased to announce we have reached a new agreement with the Nova Scotia Health Authority to expand Veterans’ access to beds in the Camp Hill Veterans’ Memorial Building.

    “The Veterans Health Care Regulations are not currently compassionate or flexible enough to address the urgent needs of our Veterans, so as we undertake a review to better address long term care needs, this measure will provide the flexibility necessary to help Veterans and their families.

    “I wish to thank the Province of Nova Scotia and Nova Scotia Members of Parliament for their hard work and collaboration with us on this solution. It is a truly an important accomplishment for the Veterans.”
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Re: Future of Nursing Home & Long-Term Care for Vets (merged)
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2016, 18:38:08 »
Jun 24, 2016

Norwegian war hero to get care at Halifax veterans' hospital after months of struggle
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/norwegian-veteran-petter-blindheim-admitted-camp-hill-1.3650822
The family of a decorated Norwegian-Canadian war hero says that after months of struggle, Petter Blindheim, 94, will finally be admitted to a Halifax veterans' hospital for long-term care.
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