Author Topic: Driver's License suspension  (Read 29671 times)

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Offline Philippe.Boisseau

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Driver's License suspension
« on: April 04, 2011, 12:07:03 »
Hello,

I applied for RMC a few months ago and did all the tests I had to do and was recently merit listed. I called this morning to make sure they received my latest report card from school and they told me they did.

What my recruiter also told me is that before further actions were taken with my admission, somebody had to call me concerning my security check (which was fine last week). He told me that they found "something" and that someone was going to call me today or tomorrow about it.

I had my license suspended 4 months ago for driving under the influence. I HAVE NOT been judge guilty and I am currently contesting the charges.

I am thinking they are going to call me to ask me about my license getting suspended but I wanted to ask if anyone had similar problems or knew about this case.

Offline JMesh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 12:12:20 »
On a criminal records check, charges currently before the courts (which you stated your's are - you are currently contesting the charges) normally show up, so it's likely in relation to that.

Also, if you're not a currently enrolled member of the CF, please lose the rank as an avatar. There are many people on here who've worked hard to get where they are and to earn the insignia. And yes, it actually does matter quite a bit to many of the people on this site.

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 12:12:40 »
Call the Recruiting centre and talk to them about it, they will tell you what will apply to your specific case. A DUI won't look good though, just IMO.


Also, untill you are actually in the CF, you may want to change your avatar as you are not yet a OCdt.

Offline Philippe.Boisseau

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 12:35:12 »
Call the Recruiting centre and talk to them about it, they will tell you what will apply to your specific case. A DUI won't look good though, just IMO.


Also, untill you are actually in the CF, you may want to change your avatar as you are not yet a OCdt.

Just did, thanks for the tips. Looking for more info if anyone has any. Going to call the RC soon.

Offline Sapperian

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 14:11:07 »
I HAVE NOT been judge guilty and I am currently contesting the charges.

Guilty or not, if it is before the courts it is a legal obligation. As far as I understand you must be free of all legal obligations before enrolling. This doesn't necessarily mean you are guilty as even being a witness to a crime needing to testify is considered a legal obligation. It is just easier for all parties involved not to have to deal with anything of that nature.

That being said, I am neither a recruiter nor a lawyer so take it with a grain of salt if you so desire, but I am fairly certain my information is accurate.
Please take the above with a grain of salt.

Offline Precept

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 14:17:39 »
Guilty or not, if it is before the courts it is a legal obligation. As far as I understand you must be free of all legal obligations before enrolling. This doesn't necessarily mean you are guilty as even being a witness to a crime needing to testify is considered a legal obligation. It is just easier for all parties involved not to have to deal with anything of that nature.

That being said, I am neither a recruiter nor a lawyer so take it with a grain of salt if you so desire, but I am fairly certain my information is accurate.

I'll stand by you on this one. I was asked about Legal Obligations (pending charges, witness to an event, and even Jury Duty) during my interview and again when they called with my Offer. They won't process an application if you have any.

Offline Philippe.Boisseau

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 15:52:45 »
I'll stand by you on this one. I was asked about Legal Obligations (pending charges, witness to an event, and even Jury Duty) during my interview and again when they called with my Offer. They won't process an application if you have any.

Talked with the RC ealier today. So basically they're putting my admission file on hold until I am done with the legal process. So when I am done with this in early september they want me to get back to them with the court papers and verdict. Then they can proceed to next step with my file.

I know not much people are in my situation but if it can help anybody... Also, you guys were right, they will not go on with your case if you have ANY legal obligations.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 17:07:15 »
Just looking for OP to follow up on what happened with this if he still uses the forum..I realize this is an old thread, but nonetheless, one on almost exactly my same situation...let me explain.

September 2012, I smashed my car into a pole, and got charged with DUI. I plead guilty (with a lawyer) at the "earliest opportunity" in the court system (aka next court date after getting disclosure) which I was told shows taking accountability (by my lawyer and the judge). I was thus sentenced to one year of "probation" for which my only conditions are to keep the peace, to complete community hours which I've already completed a third of, and to pay a fine which Ive made arrangements to pay this month. My major question is, because I know nobody can give me an exact answer, how likely is this to affect my application? I'm solid in all other areas (average credit, physically fit, college graduate, lots of work experience and references, etc..) but is this considered a "legel obligation" even if by the time I meet with a recruiter the fine will be paid and the hours completed? I would not need to meet with my PO until the end of my probation at that point, and since my interest is in the ROTP, this would not affect my ability to be deployed or anything since thats way down the line anyway...I wouldnt even be able to start school until the probation is over judging by university application deadlines.

If anyone has an answer or any type of similar experience with something like this, please share it! Obviously, no two situations are the same and nobody can give me a definitive answer, but I'm sure I can at least get an idea of what to expect from some replies. FYI for those of you in a bad mood today, Ive already read that criminal record can affect your application, Im just looking for lived experience applying with a DUI or someone who has applied to CF with a record, or even someone who thinks they have a good answer. If you've read all of this, you deserve my thanks already, so, thank you!
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Offline DAA

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 17:16:05 »
The proper term is "subject to a judicial obligation".   Hence, probation and the suspension of a drivers licence would fall into this category and make you ineligible for processing and or enrolment in the CF.  Once you have met your "judicial obligations" then you would be eligible for processing.  The next hurdle would be the Criminal Records Name Check and subsequent granting of a "Reliability Clearance" which is part of the processing.  Your previous indescretions would definitely come up and it would be addressed by an MCC at your local recruiting centre at that time.

So after you have met and completed all the judicial obligations awarded, then it would be up to your respective CFRC as to whether or not they would grant you a Reliability Clearance.
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Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 17:40:33 »
Alright, fairly clear, thanks for the quick reply, and I'll be sure to use the correct terms next time, haha. My next question is then, based on the fact the waiting periods seem to exceed the term remaining on my probation, and my license will be reinstated prior to then as well (though I dont understand why that matters, Im sure theres applicants who get in with no license to begin with), should I file my application documents and wait to speak with a recruiter, or should I wait until the probation period has totally completed? Wait until the last month? Obviously, like everyone else, Id like to get my application processed as quickly as possible, so I'm just trying to figure out the best time to begin all of this.

Also, if this is even an answerable question (maybe from someone who applied with a record before), how likely is this to get my application denied even if I should apply post-probation and license reinstatement? I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do. Basically I'm asking if I'm on a level playing field with people not scoring perfect in the other areas. Previous posted mentioned it'll be up to a recruiter, I get that, again just looking for an idea of what to expect based on others experiences and knowledge. Thanks again everyone!
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 18:05:06 »
Not like you robbed a bank or molested anyone? What if that pole you hit was a minivan and you wiped out a family? DUI isn't not just an "aww schucks" offense. You'll never have an even playing field until you get a pardon, you have been convicted of a crime, no matter how you look at it.

Offline medicineman

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 18:20:54 »
Alright, fairly clear, thanks for the quick reply, and I'll be sure to use the correct terms next time, haha. My next question is then, based on the fact the waiting periods seem to exceed the term remaining on my probation, and my license will be reinstated prior to then as well (though I dont understand why that matters, Im sure theres applicants who get in with no license to begin with),

What matters isn't whether you have a license or not, but that you lost your license and why it happened...the military takes a dim view on DUI these days.

I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do. Basically I'm asking if I'm on a level playing field with people not scoring perfect in the other areas. Previous posted mentioned it'll be up to a recruiter, I get that, again just looking for an idea of what to expect based on others experiences and knowledge. Thanks again everyone!

Like Puck Chaser said, you'll  likely need a pardon, since IIRC, DUI is actually a Criminal Code offence - they don't care how many pushups you can do or how many letters are after your name at the time of application, but they do care about CCoC offences.

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Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 18:29:46 »
I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do.

Lots of people play sports. Lots of people have gone to college, and many even to university. Lots of people get good grades. Lots of people aren't flaming retards. The great majority of people aren't criminals.

You made a bloody stupid decision which should add will affect your life negatively for some time. The fact that you appear to not grasp the gravity of your error, nor to take seriously the potentially catastrophic damage you could have done to the lives of others, tells me that we can do without you. I'm particularly stunned that you actually think that at this stage in your life given your extremely recent history and ongoing legal issues that you would be a favourable candidate for ROTP, for commissioning, and most importantly for being entrusted with the lives and well being of soldiers under your command.

You may at some point in the future be just the kind of person we're looking for, but you have considerable maturing to do first. I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.
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Offline Ducam

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 18:43:19 »
I just went through the process and admitted my current legal status from the get go.

I got a blowing over charge back in 2010. Finally settled the case in 2011 with a conditional discharge with 1 year probation which included a driving suspension and community hours as well as all the usual mandatory things like keep the peace and be of good behaviour.

I know you mentioned having one year probation so I am assuming you were given a conditional discharge and not a conviction. Difference being a conviction requires a pardon and a conditional discharge is sealed once three years from the date of your sentencing is complete.

I applied once finished probation and had my licence back and I was just very honest and up front about everything they asked about it.

Don't hold anything back.

But I am very sure that you need to wait things out until your probation is complete because it is a legal obligation due to you having to see a parole officer. Can't very well do that if you are shipped to BMQ.

During your waiting time for your probation to end I would suggest finding ways to beef your resume.
Volunteering is a great way to show that you are a model citizen, full time job in a position of authority shows leadership and responsibility, single courses at a college or university show initiative in betting yourself and improving your resume.

Been there and done that. No you didn't rob a bank but a crime is a crime and you have to pay the piper.

Offline PAdm

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2013, 18:45:57 »
I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.

Nicely said and a very fair assessment!  The public has to appreciate the enrolment bar has long since been raised.  We are a professional force, not one desperate for any beating pulse.
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Offline SentryMAn

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2013, 19:06:09 »
I went through this 15 years ago.
It's not an easy road and you will need to pad your resume/file a good bit to overcome the decision to drive while impaired.

If you are convicted and hold a criminal record I would suggest to get a pardon(as I have) for the conviction.

The stupidity in your post, well there's no cure for that and only time might change your thoughts.

I STRONGLY urge you to volunteer at MADD events or at some type of organization that deals with accident victims, their families etc.

When you truly think about what the outcome of your actions could have been that night, the lives effected by hopping in that drivers seat, you'll start to appreciate what others are posting here.

As it is now, I personally do not think you understand what has happened.


Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2013, 19:18:06 »
Lots of people play sports. Lots of people have gone to college, and many even to university. Lots of people get good grades. Lots of people aren't flaming retards. The great majority of people aren't criminals.

You made a bloody stupid decision which should add will affect your life negatively for some time. The fact that you appear to not grasp the gravity of your error, nor to take seriously the potentially catastrophic damage you could have done to the lives of others, tells me that we can do without you. I'm particularly stunned that you actually think that at this stage in your life given your extremely recent history and ongoing legal issues that you would be a favourable candidate for ROTP, for commissioning, and most importantly for being entrusted with the lives and well being of soldiers under your command.

You may at some point in the future be just the kind of person we're looking for, but you have considerable maturing to do first. I would not want myself or my soldiers to have to work for you at this time.

I think you and the others above may have misunderstood what I meant. I agree with you, I made a very stupid decision. I could have hurt or killed someone, not to mention myself. I feel incredibly bad about it and have since it happened, even moreso now that I've learned it will likely have a negative impact on my opportunities with the forces. So, please, don't think that I feel what I did is insignificant, it's not, I simply meant that the law is pretty clear on the fact that DUI is not as serious as bank robbery and child molestation. Also, I don't think I'd be a favorable candidate, which is why I'm here asking these questions and asking for the knowledge and experience of those who know more than I do about this subject, such as yourself. I agree also that I have maturing to do, and hope to better myself with or without a place in the forces...I'd just much rather do it with. If you asked me to lead your soldiers at this exact point in my life, I'd tell you I didn't feel I was ready for the responsibility, because I'm not. Would I be ready wit more education, more years gone by in my life, and a solid amount of training in the army? I'm almost sure of it, that's why I'm interested.

Duncam, that information is somewhat relieving, however, it was a conviction I recieved and not a conditional discharge. The fact you were honest about it anyway and were still accepted is good news on that note. Also, I do hold down a full time job in social services as well as working part-time in security (mostly large events/bodyguard services at this point). I have some volunteering under my belt, but maybe thats something I should into doing more of...do any particular places stand to recruiters more? College courses, should my finances permit, are also an idea I'd considered, especially since many are conducted online now. Any other suggestions? Thanks again to everyone, though not all the news made me smile, I appreciate knowing!
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Offline DAA

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2013, 19:19:00 »
Alright, fairly clear, thanks for the quick reply, and I'll be sure to use the correct terms next time, haha. My next question is then, based on the fact the waiting periods seem to exceed the term remaining on my probation, and my license will be reinstated prior to then as well (though I dont understand why that matters, Im sure theres applicants who get in with no license to begin with), should I file my application documents and wait to speak with a recruiter, or should I wait until the probation period has totally completed? Wait until the last month? Obviously, like everyone else, Id like to get my application processed as quickly as possible, so I'm just trying to figure out the best time to begin all of this.

Also, if this is even an answerable question (maybe from someone who applied with a record before), how likely is this to get my application denied even if I should apply post-probation and license reinstatement? I understand theres a lot of applicants, but it's not like I robbed a bank or molested a kid, and I'm sure many of them wont have the education, experience, physical fitness or whatever their case may be, that I do. Basically I'm asking if I'm on a level playing field with people not scoring perfect in the other areas. Previous posted mentioned it'll be up to a recruiter, I get that, again just looking for an idea of what to expect based on others experiences and knowledge. Thanks again everyone!

You can apply, every Canadian Citizen has the "right" to make application.  Chances are your application will not go anywhere and you will be advised that "Due to judicial obligations which you have declared.....etc, etc, you are currently not eligible for processing, blah blah blah"

Your other question can't be answered with any certainty until after you are "eligible" for processing and then should your file be forwarded to your local CFRC, it will be at the discretion of your MCC (Military Career Counsellor) and not a Recruiter.  And while some people like to "minimize" such offences as DUI and as kindly mentioned above, it is still an offence under the "Criminal Code of Canada" and does have repurcussions.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 19:21:09 »
I think you and the others above may have misunderstood what I meant. I agree with you, I made a very stupid decision. I could have hurt or killed someone, not to mention myself. I feel incredibly bad about it and have since it happened, even moreso now that I've learned it will likely have a negative impact on my opportunities with the forces. So, please, don't think that I feel what I did is insignificant, it's not, I simply meant that the law is pretty clear on the fact that DUI is not as serious as bank robbery and child molestation. Also, I don't think I'd be a favorable candidate, which is why I'm here asking these questions and asking for the knowledge and experience of those who know more than I do about this subject, such as yourself. I agree also that I have maturing to do, and hope to better myself with or without a place in the forces...I'd just much rather do it with. If you asked me to lead your soldiers at this exact point in my life, I'd tell you I didn't feel I was ready for the responsibility, because I'm not. Would I be ready wit more education, more years gone by in my life, and a solid amount of training in the army? I'm almost sure of it, that's why I'm interested.

Duncam, that information is somewhat relieving, however, it was a conviction I recieved and not a conditional discharge. The fact you were honest about it anyway and were still accepted is good news on that note. Also, I do hold down a full time job in social services as well as working part-time in security (mostly large events/bodyguard services at this point). I have some volunteering under my belt, but maybe thats something I should into doing more of...do any particular places stand to recruiters more? College courses, should my finances permit, are also an idea I'd considered, especially since many are conducted online now. Any other suggestions? Thanks again to everyone, though not all the news made me smile, I appreciate knowing!

Fair enough. Bear in mind also that Duncam is applying for NCM, whereas you're applying for an ROTP officer position. Those tend to be quite a bit harder to get into than noncommissioned combat arms trades. You have a considerable uphill struggle ahead of you, as the recruiting system is as much concerned with 'what is your potential NOW?' versus 'what potential might you have if you pay for you to go to university for four years?'. You likely won't look like a good bet next to many others. I would have backup plans to ROTP, both within and without the military.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 19:30:52 »
I went through this 15 years ago.
It's not an easy road and you will need to pad your resume/file a good bit to overcome the decision to drive while impaired.

If you are convicted and hold a criminal record I would suggest to get a pardon(as I have) for the conviction.

The stupidity in your post, well there's no cure for that and only time might change your thoughts.

I STRONGLY urge you to volunteer at MADD events or at some type of organization that deals with accident victims, their families etc.

When you truly think about what the outcome of your actions could have been that night, the lives effected by hopping in that drivers seat, you'll start to appreciate what others are posting here.

As it is now, I personally do not think you understand what has happened.

Well, hopefully your opinion changes after reading my above post...again I feel theres been a pretty big misunderstanding about what I meant. However, your idea about volunteering with MADD has given me an idea regarding the latter part of my above post, and maybe that would help to show a recruiter I've learned from what I've done and understand the magnitude.

Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court. I get that most people aren't criminals, but most people aren't applying to the army either, so I'm looking to learn about where I stand with my fellow applicants overall. Thanks everyone.

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Offline DAA

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 19:41:30 »
Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court.

There you go again......you are still minimizing the fact that you have been convicted, where others haven't.  And you took responsibility because you had no choice but to.

What's done is done and can't be undone for some time.  Now you have to just live with it.
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Offline SeR

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 19:42:11 »
Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court. I get that most people aren't criminals, but most people aren't applying to the army either, so I'm looking to learn about where I stand with my fellow applicants overall. Thanks everyone.

If you didn't take responsibility for it in the first place, odds are that it would have only been a matter of time before you were proven guilty, so that really doesn't change things at all.

When Brihard said that most people aren't criminals, he was referring to other applicants, so I don't really see why you mentioned that most people don't apply to the Forces.

Finally, no need to answer to this last comment. Put yourself in the position of a member of the selection board. Would you rather hire an applicant who has less extra curriculars and slightly lower grades, or would you rather hire the guy who has committed a crime and just finished probation?

Just something to think about.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 19:46:54 by SeR »

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 20:29:49 »
There you go again......you are still minimizing the fact that you have been convicted, where others haven't.  And you took responsibility because you had no choice but to.

What's done is done and can't be undone for some time.  Now you have to just live with it.

OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last. Also, sure, I may have been convicted at trial, I actually had a very good potential defense in that my breath sample could easily have been contaminated by the prior surgery on my lip. I took responsibility because I wanted to, because I knew what I did was wrong, and that it would only be worse to waste tens of thousands of tax dollars on a trial when I knew I was guilty, even if I was found not guilty.

As for SeR, I'm sure thats what brihard meant, and I'm not arguing with him, but this seems to be becoming more about people ranting on the seriousness of drunk driving or why they think I haven't learned my lesson. Unless you're the one deciding if I'm in or out, none of that really matters. That's why I made the comment you referred to. My honest answer to the latter part of your post is that is judge neither solely based on their grades, or their criminal record, but more on their character. Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind. And before you lose it, yes, I get that having a record period shows you can make bad choices, I'm just saying everyone CAN and does make bad choices, not everyone gets caught, and an even smaller amount take responsibility when they do.
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2013, 20:48:23 »
OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last.

Yep, and since the CF is full, your record is going to put you at the bottom of the pile. You and another applicant have the exact same file, but yours has a DUI. Guess who gets picked? You made a life choice, pled guilty and now have to live with that life choice. A pardon clears your record and you look like an average joe again. Considering we kick people out for alcohol misconduct, you want to start your career with one strike already against you?

Offline SeR

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2013, 20:48:54 »
Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has.

Or perhaps the person who never had to "learn the hard way" already knew better.  ::)

There's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am.

As far as the CF (or any employer) is concerned, they don't care if you are "statistically [less] likely" to re-offend. What they care about is that you have a criminal past, whereas other applicants don't.