Author Topic: Driver's License suspension  (Read 29634 times)

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Offline DAA

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 20:50:12 »
OK I see what you're saying, but I'm hardly the first forces applicant with a record. Not sure where I'm minimizing it, it's a simple fact...I have a conviction on my record, there's no making it more or less important. I'm just saying, I'm clearly not the first and certainly won't be the last. Also, sure, I may have been convicted at trial, I actually had a very good potential defense in that my breath sample could easily have been contaminated by the prior surgery on my lip. I took responsibility because I wanted to, because I knew what I did was wrong, and that it would only be worse to waste tens of thousands of tax dollars on a trial when I knew I was guilty, even if I was found not guilty.

As for SeR, I'm sure thats what brihard meant, and I'm not arguing with him, but this seems to be becoming more about people ranting on the seriousness of drunk driving or why they think I haven't learned my lesson. Unless you're the one deciding if I'm in or out, none of that really matters. That's why I made the comment you referred to. My honest answer to the latter part of your post is that is judge neither solely based on their grades, or their criminal record, but more on their character. Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind. And before you lose it, yes, I get that having a record period shows you can make bad choices, I'm just saying everyone CAN and does make bad choices, not everyone gets caught, and an even smaller amount take responsibility when they do.

You're minimizing things by saying "I got caught where others didn't".  You can't use that as a defense for something that was wrong.  So I don't hear anyone who was caught robbing a bank or comitting a more henious crime saying..........
Again not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for. I got caught, and I took responsibility for it in court.

I can honestly say, that should you ever get called by the CF for an interview or any other employer for that fact, you will be ask the question.  And if you respond by saying "not to take away from the seriousness of what I did, but this is also a crime that many people have comitted and not been caught for"

Did you also know, that you may very well not be "admissable" for entry into the US or any other foreign country and that you may also not be "bondable" for civilian employment where such a requirement exists.

After being caught and taking responsibility is neither here nor there.

If you want to apply to the CF, go right ahead, it's your right.  Nobody here on this forum is going to be able to accurately judge and or assess your credentials for acceptance.
Got a question that you're afraid to ask online?  PM me!  I don't bite........

Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2013, 20:54:49 »
Someone who's had had to learn the hard way knows better than someone else who never has, and really, there's less reoffenders for what I did than there are first timers...thus, the young (say my age, 22) man/woman you described in comparison to me is statistically more likely to drink and drive than I am...just something to keep in mind.

 :facepalm:

No. See, most of us are simply smart enough from the outset not to commit criminal offences like that. Nobody's impressed that you've 'learned the hard way', because most people are never dumb enough to need to. That scores you zero points at all.

Take that rationalization and try to apply it to negligent homicide, fraud, or sexual assault. Would it impress you at all? I hope not.

You came into this thread wanting to know how your standing against other meritorious candidates will be in light of your criminal record: Nice simple answer for you; not good. As I said, have other plans ready to carry you through the next several years when this doesn't pan out for you.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline Artyman

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2013, 20:59:15 »
You made the choices to be a fuckup and now you're dealing with it. It doesn't matter if you only got cuaght and charged when others don't. Simply put, you ****ed up, deal with it and move on.
Blessed be the lord, my rock, who trains my hand for war, and my fingers for battle.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2013, 21:00:26 »
 Anyway, just for the person who down the road searches the same phrase I did and finds this, or for the rest of you with old information, "pardons" don't exist anymore. One can now obtain a "record suspension," which is effectively the same thing, though there are some important differences.

And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?

Well, we clearly understand each other, no sense talking in circles...

 I get your points, hopefully you get mine. You'd actually be surprised how many employers overlook DUI being on your record, including the ministry of community safety and correctional services here in Ontario. Not saying they're right or wrong for it, just saying in general.

Though it clearly isn't the best news, I appreciate you guys responding and regardless of what the first recruiter says, I'm never going to give up on this. Any further experiences or information anyone has would still be greatly appreciated

« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 21:37:07 by pointfiveoh »
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2013, 21:39:05 »
And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?t well, we clearly understand each other, no sense talking in circles.

All the deflection and obfuscation in the world doesn't change the fact that you were convicted of drunk driving, a criminal offense, and that you continue to try to minimize and negate the significance and severity of what you did. You're simply digging yourself deeper and bringing further contempt and scorn down upon yourself.

It's an old axiom of military strategy to never reinforce failure...
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline SeR

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2013, 21:43:05 »
And, for a laugh, who in this thread has NEVER committed a crime or done something that could have led to being charged (ie speeding, public intoxication, opening a drink in a store even if you paid for it after, "sampling" grapes, etc)? Let's be honest men now, nobody is a saint, lol...many things you've done in your life could have landed any number of you in my shoes, and many of those same offences are looked upon as on par with what I did in the law books. Don't believe me? See for yourself,dont take it from me, look it up. Jaywalking could land you in prison if someone a swerves to avoid you and kills someone doing it. Let me guess, were gonna crucify jaywalkers now?

Now you're just being stubborn and trying to convince yourself that your crime is insignificant. There's quite a difference between speeding and driving under the influence. If there wasn't, the consequences would be the same.

For the record, speeding isn't even a criminal offense (unless your 50 km/h over the limit). Drunk driving is.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 21:47:31 by SeR »

Offline JesseWZ

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2013, 22:08:40 »
Hi POINTFIVEOH

I'm an MP, Military Police Cpl at a fairly large and busy base. I've attended numerous calls for DUIs, public intoxication (which in the CF is a chargeble offense), domestic violence involving alcohol and others. In fact, I think if you take away the mundane calls (building insecurities, lost Military ID) more than 60% of my files involve alcohol.

If you can't figure out why no one around here seems to take a liking to you, it's because the CF is a small community. The PMQs (if you ever live in them) are usually a smaller community still. No one likes you because you are the guy that can't take responsibility for his actions, and no one wants you to hit their kids, spouses or parents.

Most impaired drivers we stop have been charged, or stopped at the very least numerous times. Almost never is it a persons first time driving impaired, and very rarely it is their last.



And for anyone else who is curious:

Probation, statuatory release, community service, and parole are a part of your sentence. They are all considered a judicial obligation.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 22:19:44 by JesseWZ »
I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard... I will be seen and not heard...

Offline Artyman

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2013, 22:10:48 »
So if someone you knew got killed by a drunk driver its not so bad. Come on now. Driving drunk is 100% on you. No one else. And the fact that you think its ok and that you should even be looked at over someone without a dd charge makes me sick
Blessed be the lord, my rock, who trains my hand for war, and my fingers for battle.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2013, 22:22:53 »
Sigh...I'm giving up on this thread lol thanks for your removal of my mp points and your commentary everyone. Whenever I do makeit into the forces, iI'd like to meet you in person soyou can all tell me the same thing over and over again without considering my point. There's no minimization, deflection, or whatever you wish to call it in what I'm saying. What I did was wrong, no doubt about it, if you want to pretend to be saints that's all you. I know how I feel about what happened, I know I could've left a 3 year olds brain splattered across the pavement or had their mothers head smoking in my radiator. Me knowing that doesn't change that it was wrong, just like you thinking I'm minimizing doesn't change the fact I'm not. If anyone has any actual advice for me or can share an experience of theirs or a friends, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks gentlemen, and please, keep your judgements about me to yourself. Kudos to brihard and duncam for the only useful info in here, even though the former seems not to like me very much LOL
"Nothing to lose, something to gain, never give up, never back down."

Offline SeR

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #34 on: April 03, 2013, 22:28:06 »
Whenever I do makeit into the forces If I make it into the forces.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 22:30:49 by SeR »

Offline Artyman

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #35 on: April 03, 2013, 22:34:22 »
Sigh...I'm giving up on this thread lol thanks for your removal of my mp points and your commentary everyone. Whenever I do makeit into the forces, iI'd like to meet you in person soyou can all tell me the same thing over and over again without considering my point. There's no minimization, deflection, or whatever you wish to call it in what I'm saying. What I did was wrong, no doubt about it, if you want to pretend to be saints that's all you. I know how I feel about what happened, I know I could've left a 3 year olds brain splattered across the pavement or had their mothers head smoking in my radiator. Me knowing that doesn't change that it was wrong, just like you thinking I'm minimizing doesn't change the fact I'm not. If anyone has any actual advice for me or can share an experience of theirs or a friends, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks gentlemen, and please, keep your judgements about me to yourself. Kudos to brihard and duncam for the only useful info in here, even though the former seems not to like me very much LOL

If you can't take a little heat on here because you made ****ed up decisions you're going to have a hell of a time when you get to cflrs. Goodluck.
Blessed be the lord, my rock, who trains my hand for war, and my fingers for battle.

Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #36 on: April 03, 2013, 22:45:22 »
Sigh...I'm giving up on this thread lol thanks for your removal of my mp points and your commentary everyone. Whenever I do makeit into the forces, iI'd like to meet you in person soyou can all tell me the same thing over and over again without considering my point. There's no minimization, deflection, or whatever you wish to call it in what I'm saying. What I did was wrong, no doubt about it, if you want to pretend to be saints that's all you. I know how I feel about what happened, I know I could've left a 3 year olds brain splattered across the pavement or had their mothers head smoking in my radiator. Me knowing that doesn't change that it was wrong, just like you thinking I'm minimizing doesn't change the fact I'm not. If anyone has any actual advice for me or can share an experience of theirs or a friends, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks gentlemen, and please, keep your judgements about me to yourself. Kudos to brihard and duncam for the only useful info in here, even though the former seems not to like me very much LOL

Please do not mistake me for disliking you; I don't. I have too little to work off of to determine whether you're personally likeable or not, and besides that it's irrelevant. It's simply my opinion as a soldier and a leader that you are not fit to be an officer in the Canadian Forces because at this stage in your life you serve a poor example and do not reflect our professional values and ethos, and I would not be comfortable seeing my soldiers under your command nor being there myself. My viewpoint on this is strictly a professional one, not a personal one, and I would be perfectly willing to say it to your face if you insisted on that in order to take my words seriously.

Despite the very broad and varied membership here, I think very few of us will be able to relate any experiences, either personal or from friends, of people who have been admitted to ROTP and commissioned as officers coming off of recent criminal convictions for DUI. You can draw your own conclusions as to why that may be the case.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #37 on: April 03, 2013, 22:55:51 »
Well, what kind of officer would I make if I gave up early because a bunch of guys on the internet told me I don't stand a good chance? 5 months, 5 years, either way, I will see you guys in the forces one day, and like it or not, should some of you be NCMs when I'm done all the pre-req schooling, you might just end up working for me  ;D
"Nothing to lose, something to gain, never give up, never back down."

Offline garb811

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2013, 23:06:30 »
pointfiveoh:

Rather than the circular argument you keep making, have a read of how serious the CAF treats Alcohol Misconduct and the consequences it has for serving members.  Then stop and think for a second about why it is you, who have done the exact same thing, should be enrolled into the CAF when you have already proven your inability to use alcohol responsibly.

DAOD 5019-7, Alcohol Misconduct


Offline Artyman

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2013, 23:10:06 »
Well, what kind of officer would I make if I gave up early because a bunch of guys on the internet told me I don't stand a good chance? 5 months, 5 years, either way, I will see you guys in the forces one day, and like it or not, should some of you be NCMs when I'm done all the pre-req schooling, you might just end up working for me  ;D

We don't work for you. We serve under you. I advise that you EARN the respect of those under you. We may follow your orders, but what we ncms do, reflects how you look. And you can bet your *** that we won't help you if you think you're better then us.
Blessed be the lord, my rock, who trains my hand for war, and my fingers for battle.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #40 on: April 03, 2013, 23:29:48 »
pointfiveoh:

Rather than the circular argument you keep making, have a read of how serious the CAF treats Alcohol Misconduct and the consequences it has for serving members.  Then stop and think for a second about why it is you, who have done the exact same thing, should be enrolled into the CAF when you have already proven your inability to use alcohol responsibly.

DAOD 5019-7, Alcohol Misconduct


See, now that's some useful information. Thanks man.

And artyman, I hope to some day have a team of dedicated soldiers to work with. Men and women who do what they do becsuse they want to do it, not becase their officer is a nice and respectable guy. I'd most certainly hope to earn their respect as opposed to demanding it, but if I do find someone like yourself associated with me in our duties, Ill have no issue demanding it. I do wish that wouldn't be the case, though. Oh, and if I thought I was better than you at any point, I can safely assure you it has nothing to do with what rank you hold in the military. My apologies about using the incorrect wording.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 23:35:29 by pointfiveoh »
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #41 on: April 03, 2013, 23:44:40 »
I'd most certainly hope to earn their respect as opposed to demanding it, but if I do find someone like yourself associated with me in our duties, Ill have no issue demanding it.

You woefully misunderstand the difference between 'respect', and 'the lawful authority that a superior exerts over their followers by virtue of rank or appointment'. Respect can be demanded until one is blue in the face, but can only be given consensually. It differs from obedience or politeness in that regard. You should also recognize that a junior officer's future is determined by many factors, and that there is a quiet but real role played by the senior NCOs appointed directly below them. I would dismiss immediately the notion that you will ever be able to 'demand respect', because we have all seen it before, it's blatantly transparent when it's happening, and it doesn't work. Respect is either earned or it is not.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #42 on: April 03, 2013, 23:51:02 »
Which is exactly why I included the rest of my post in my post. Demanded respect is never "respect," just the feigning of it. That being said, everyone can be an ***hole. I much prefer the other, easier way.
"Nothing to lose, something to gain, never give up, never back down."

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2013, 07:43:17 »

............ I'd most certainly hope to earn their respect as opposed to demanding it, but if I do find someone like yourself associated with me in our duties, Ill have no issue demanding it.

Sorry.  With all the self-centered, self-importance, superior attitude displayed in you your posts so far in this thread, the above highlighted part of your post demonstrated to me that I personally would not wish to see you as an officer in any position within the Canadian military.  I personally would have little to do with you in any capacity, military or civilian.  To put it bluntly; your attitude sucks.  One can not demand respect.
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Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2013, 08:00:36 »
You guys ever heard of "constructive criticism?" If a thousand of you show up to this thread and speak on the subject of my attitude, my past decisions in life, whether or not I learned my lesson, or whether or not I understand a 2000 some-odd pound car can kill someone, I'm still not going to give up on this.I asked for advice, not your opinion of me. If you'd like to suggest how I should better my attitude or how I should go about improving my chances, I'm all ears, but I'm not gonna argue in circles with you guys. Remember that you who are in the forces have benefitted from being there, you are the angels you are partially because of your military training and experience, I haven't got that benefit yet, I'm here because I don't know jack s*** about this, from attitude to Zulu.

Reading over some of my posts, I can see why some of you have developed early bad opinions of me. I'd like to apologize for many of those posts as I simply let myself get annoyed with you guys about your comments (more so the ones about me as a person, or the DUI criticisms, and those of you who think I'm stupid enough to not know what I did was wrong). I'm not some self centered prick, and the last thing I want to be is that officer yelling at everyone that I'm sure nobody would miss if there were an "accidental explosion."

Anyway, please continue to share advice, information and experiences with us as I know I won't be then last to search this topic.
"Nothing to lose, something to gain, never give up, never back down."

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2013, 08:52:13 »
You got advice a page and a half ago. Your conviction will effect your application in a negative way until such time that you apply for and receive a pardon. You also cannot apply to the CAF if you have a current judicial obligation.

So sorry that you don't like hearing that you screwed up, but you put yourself out there. If you really want to be in the CAF, learn to deal with being told directly when you've screwed something up.

Offline George Wallace

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2013, 08:56:08 »
You guys ever heard of "constructive criticism?"

 ::)

I guess everything so far has flown miles over your head.  If you haven't picked up on any of the points yet, we really don't see much hope of your ever applying successfully to become a member of the Canadian Armed Forces, let alone an officer.

Perhaps it is best if you suck back and read more and post less. 
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2013, 09:02:58 »
If you get into the CF as say, an Armoured Officer and become a Lieutenant, are put into a Troop Leader slot, please come back after you "demand" the respect of the Tp WO, the Sergeant-Major, and the RSM and let us know how that worked out for you.   :nod:

I don't know about others, but this thread made me think of this training video.    ;D
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Offline pointfiveoh

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2013, 10:18:13 »
Alright, that's fair. That being said, I got the point it will affect my application pages ago, and even to some degree before I made this thread lol what I'm asking for is anyone else's experience with applying to the cf with a record, possibly for a criminal driving offence, and, even if they were initially denied, how they eventually got in. Be it a pardon, volunteering, whatever they did...I've only really got info from two people on their direct experience. Anyone elses information on the question is great too.
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Online mariomike

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Re: Driver's License suspension
« Reply #49 on: April 04, 2013, 10:28:03 »
<snip> what I'm asking for is anyone else's experience with applying to the cf with a record, <snip>

Some here.

Recruiting > "Criminal Record (merged)":
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,12896.0.html
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 10:38:33 by mariomike »