Author Topic: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]  (Read 58305 times)

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Offline Ostrozac

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2013, 17:48:16 »
I have received a heads up that my next posting is likely an RSS position. Now, I am in the unfortunate position of not only having limited and dated knowledge of the reserves, but also that none of my peers in my current unit have served in RSS positions. I used the search engine, and while there is much explanation on this site of what life is like as a reservist, there is little discussion of the role of the RSS in the whole process.

I did serve in a reserve combat arms unit in the 90's, briefly, before joining the reg force, but my memories of US rain jackets, AVGPs and militia districts is, I know, quite dated. I don't even remember the difference between Class B and Class B (A)!

Does anyone with Regular Support Staff experience have any lessons learned or observations about the job that they would like to share?

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2013, 18:23:10 »
Solely depends on your unit. But as an extreme model I've seen RSS expected to work all week, most weekends, every Thursday night and then pick up all the assigned summer teaching jobs that none of the Cl A pers will touch with a 10 ft pole. Your mileage may vary though.

Offline Tetragrammaton

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2013, 11:41:36 »
As stated, it depends on the type of unit and to an extent which RSS position you are going into.

Generally, the difference between Class B and BA is the duration of the contract, with Class BA being for permanent positions and typically 3 years.  Its important to know that the full-time staff of a typical reserve unit is only 6-7 personnel (RSS = Adjutant. Chief clerk, QM Sgt/MCpl, Ops WO; Cl-BA = Finance Sgt, RMS clerk, one other Cl-BA in various positions). This means that various tasks and jobs, that are outside of what is defined by your position end up in your in-box. While part-time class A pers are called in for various work during the week, when this doesn't happen, it invariably falls to the full-time staff.  Things are made that much more difficult if there are vacancies in the full-time positions.

The reserves train most weekends and one local training night per week, so the full-time staff (RSS and permanent reservists) are, quite logically, expected to be there. This does not however imply that you will be required to attend every LHQ night and training weekend. Depends on the nature of the training and your role at the unit. I would assume most employing units realize that working any member 60+ hours will simply lead to a eventual burn-out. Often if required to work a weekend, the full-time staff is given the Monday off. Not a 1:1 return but better than nothing.

In my perspective, I've seen a lot of RSS staff over the last few years and the one's who were truly miserable were because they simply didn't want to be there. Often this was their last posting and they were counting the days until retirement, didn't want to work weekends or Tuesday nights, and couldn't see any personal benefit in working with the reserves. The chief clerks realize quickly that the admin is a little different, the quartermaster staff realize they have little support staff and that the supply job in a reserve unit is very different from what they may have done before. The adjutants probably have the least difficulty transitioning to working for the reserves. 

Communication with the chain of command is key and would likely resolve most problems in most cases. 

« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:44:44 by Tetragrammaton »

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2013, 11:55:36 »
The adjutants probably have the least difficulty transitioning to working for the reserves. 

I am not sure I agree with this;  with a Cl A CO, the Adjt position can be extremely busy, handling day-to-day stuff with Bde, etc.  The other key positions (eg Regt 2 I/C, Regt Ops O, etc) are also mostly Cl A.  The Adjt quickly become more than "just" the Adjt in some cases (I'd like to sat "most" based on what I'd seen in my Res time).  I also recall the RSS Os being tasked with a handful of secondary duties, such as U Sec O.  If they had a hat-rack, it would have needed quite a few hooks, IMO.

Also, I've seen Adjt's double-hatted with the duties above within RHQ *and* farmed out to the F Ech as well, as Battle Captain, etc during the Trg year...only to be sent to the MTSC/LFA TC/*insert name of TE* for the summer trg cycle....then onto the ARCON...repeat cycle.

Some CO's have recognized the hard work and amount of hours RSS folks put in on the Armouries floor and given them CTOs/Shorts/etc and I've also seen others not do it.  I spent a few years at a CBG HQ and attended more than 1 COS and/or Bde Comd O Gps where these issues were brought up, resulting in direction from HHQ to COs.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 11:58:41 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Milhouser911

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #79 on: September 26, 2017, 16:02:06 »
Good afternoon everyone.

I'm a reg force member in a reserve CSS posting, looking to wrap my head around the idea of coming in for Thursday night training nights after a regular day's work.  This is mostly smoke-pit chatter, since I understand that the powers that be will administer it however they choose, but for my own entertainment I'd like to know if this concept has any weight.

Regular working hours are 0900-1600, and we must return to work from 1900-2200.  It seems to me that this would clearly constitute "irregular hours", or possibly a return call to work.  The way I understand it, this would necessitate either a meal (if we were working the entire time) OR mileage for the second trip to work.  The CFDTI is a little short on definitions, so it's definitely open to interpretation. 

Does anyone care to weigh in? The relevant section appears to be CFDTI 5.24.

Thanks for your input.

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #80 on: September 26, 2017, 18:59:16 »
Do you put in a full day on Friday's?

IIRC the RSS staff and Class "B" were done at noon on Fridays.....


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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #81 on: September 26, 2017, 19:46:58 »
Good afternoon everyone.

I'm a reg force member in a reserve CSS posting, looking to wrap my head around the idea of coming in for Thursday night training nights after a regular day's work.  This is mostly smoke-pit chatter, since I understand that the powers that be will administer it however they choose, but for my own entertainment I'd like to know if this concept has any weight.

Regular working hours are 0900-1600, and we must return to work from 1900-2200.  It seems to me that this would clearly constitute "irregular hours", or possibly a return call to work.  The way I understand it, this would necessitate either a meal (if we were working the entire time) OR mileage for the second trip to work.  The CFDTI is a little short on definitions, so it's definitely open to interpretation. 

Does anyone care to weigh in? The relevant section appears to be CFDTI 5.24.

Thanks for your input.

It's been quite a time since I was an RSSO but way back when there were still dinosaurs roaming the armories, my people worked an 0800 to 0400 day. The regiment had an admin night on Tuesdays from 1900 to 2200 and paraded every second Saturday and Sunday from 0800 - 1600.

We worked the same hours as the reservists and I gave my people compensatory time off by having Wednesdays as a late start day at noon and every Monday off which gave my folks a continuous alternating one-day weekend and three-day weekend. Stat holidays were factored in as well. They seemed to be satisfied with that.

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Offline FSTO

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2017, 12:30:27 »
Before I left QUEEN, we switched to training every other Saturday and admin nights on Thurs (we used to Parade on Tuesday night, admin night did not change). The FTS had a choice of Friday or Monday off. Everyone was happy with the arrangement.

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2017, 23:33:11 »
Good afternoon everyone.

I'm a reg force member in a reserve CSS posting, looking to wrap my head around the idea of coming in for Thursday night training nights after a regular day's work. 

Speaking as a Class A guy with over a couple of decades in the traces, I am still trying to wrap my head around that one too :)
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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2017, 01:03:25 »
Milhouser911, I suggest you call or e-mail the incumbent RSS/FTUC at your new unit to get a feel for the weekly battle rhythm.

I'm a Class A Ops O with two Reg F NCMs and a Class A Trg O in my Ops/Trg shop.  My two Reg F work an "adjusted work week" with a sometimes floating day off in lieu for parading Tuesday and Thursday evenings.  When it comes to making up for weekends, we're pretty collaborative in working it out among the four of us.  (The Class A Trg O and I are shift workers and are usually on opposite shifts so one of us is there at any given time as "top cover" for my NCMs).  So far it's been working quite well in my unit.  I trust my NCMs to not "game the system" and they don't let me down.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #85 on: September 28, 2017, 09:07:10 »
Good afternoon everyone.

I'm a reg force member in a reserve CSS posting, looking to wrap my head around the idea of coming in for Thursday night training nights after a regular day's work.  This is mostly smoke-pit chatter, since I understand that the powers that be will administer it however they choose, but for my own entertainment I'd like to know if this concept has any weight.

Regular working hours are 0900-1600, and we must return to work from 1900-2200.  It seems to me that this would clearly constitute "irregular hours", or possibly a return call to work.  The way I understand it, this would necessitate either a meal (if we were working the entire time) OR mileage for the second trip to work.  The CFDTI is a little short on definitions, so it's definitely open to interpretation. 

Does anyone care to weigh in? The relevant section appears to be CFDTI 5.24.

Thanks for your input.

0900 to 1600?! Lucky you.

Every unit is a little different. At my unit, for example, the office is open 0800-1600 every day, we have a Training night every Tuesday from 1900-2200, an Admin night every Thursday from 1900-2200, and 1 training Saturday each month. Full-time staff is required to be present for all of these.

However, we get fairly good compensation in return. First, half the full-time staff gets every Monday off, and the other half gets every Friday off, no questions. We don't track anything; if you're full time staff, it's automatic. Further, if there is a holiday on the Monday/Friday, then we get the Tuesday/Thursday off instead (in addition to the holiday - hurrah for 4 days weekends). Finally, the schedule I described in my first paragraph is only during our training year from the beginning of September to the end April. During the summer months from May to August, we have no training Saturdays, no training Tuesdays, and Admin nights are only once every other week, but we still get every Monday or Friday off (summers are a nice break). 

Now, your actual question was about getting TD benefits for being recalled to work. I can't guarantee that you someone with enough time and effort wouldn't be able to make a case, but in 99% of situation, I don't think you're going to win. Being recalled, in the spirit of why it was included in the CFTDTIs, means that you were recalled for an abnormal reason. You went home expecting to stay home, but had to go back to work. Fair enough. However, for your RSS job, that is simply your assigned work schedule that the CO has set; it's not unexpected. At least that's my take on it.

Or, the CO could make your schedule on those days 0800-2200 so that you don't go home and come back. The CAF HATES spending TD money, so I;d say count your blessings.
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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #86 on: September 28, 2017, 09:25:46 »
Quote
Further, if there is a holiday on the Monday/Friday, then we get the Tuesday/Thursday off instead (in addition to the holiday.....

Lucky you. Never seen that in Western Canada over many decades.

Summer, you will probably be tasked at the very least, to support Reserve Trg.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2017, 09:40:01 »
Lucky you. Never seen that in Western Canada over many decades.

Summer, you will probably be tasked at the very least, to support Reserve Trg.

Well, when you think about it, it makes sense.

Let's say the holiday is on a Monday. Those at the unit who normally have Fridays off now have both Friday AND Monday, and only work 3 days that week; they get a holiday AND their CTO.

For those that normally have Monday off, you give them Tuesday off as well, so that just like the other half of they full-time staff, they get a holiday and a CTO that week.

It's only fair. Most holidays fall on a Monday, and if you didn't do this, those of us who already have Monday's off would be treated unfairly compared to those who normally have Fridays off.

Further, forget fairness between the two halfs of the day staff, let's break it down. The reason we get Friday/Monday off during a regular work-week is so that we work a typical 40 hour work-week (if we didn't get these days off, then we'd be working ~48 work weeks because of the Tuesday and Thursday nights). When there is a statutory holiday, that is tantamount to the government saying "you only need to work 32 hours this week". So, for those who normally have Fridays off, and now get Monday off as well, they are working a 32 work week (12 hours Tuesday and Thursday, and 8 hours on Wednesday). If we did not give Tuesday off for those who normally have their day off on Monday, they'd be working 40 hours during a week when they're supposed to be only working 32. If that was the case, then what would be the point of the Holiday at all? (to be clear, when they get Tuesday off in these cases, they only get the day off, they are expected to come in that night).
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #88 on: September 28, 2017, 09:41:52 »
I suspect Lumber is RSS in a Naval Reserve Division, and what he describes is pretty close to what most such units do. During the summer, naval reservists train on the coasts or in Quebec city and no unit's RSS personnel has to help with any of this summer training. They just have to make sure the reservists get there, and deal with personnel that is RTU'd.

Naval reserve RSS gets to catch up on a lot of little things that slipped during the summer period.  ;D

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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2017, 09:45:53 »
Lucky you. Never seen that in Western Canada over many decades.

Thankfully, the CFLMP covers that now so people don't get the crap worked out of them. 

1.1.22 Shift Worker

A shift worker is a person who does not necessarily have a working day schedule of Monday to Friday with Saturday, Sunday and designated and/or statutory holidays scheduled as non-working days.

Section 2.8 Shift Work

2.8.01 Scheduling

The concept of a weekend for a shift worker is not restricted to Saturdays and Sundays.  Shift workers may follow a schedule that differs from a Monday to Friday working week, but it is a schedule nonetheless.  In scheduling the working days of a shift worker, the CO is responsible for specifically identifying both the working and non-working days so as to ensure that the amount of time off is equivalent to the weekends and statutory holidays provided to CF members working a Monday to Friday work-week.


My CBG HQ time (over a decade ago...), the HQ was a mix of Reg and B/As with a few CL A types mixed in.  Our Bde normal parade times for Cl A was Thurs nights and the first weekend of every month.  As the HQ, we worked those times as well but like Lumber mentioned, we were considered "shiftworkers" and given either Monday or Friday off;  this was, usually, left to the Branch Heads discretion by the COS/HQ CO (usually the same person) as to who took what days, the expectation being there would be someone to answer phones and do the business each 'G' did on both Monday and Friday.  Easter Weekend was a good one, 5 days off and no Ann Lve required.  BUT...I also would end up with a bunch of CTOs in the bank come December, so the Bde got its pound of flesh out of me and most others.  Our SAV/TAV schedules weren't dictated by our normal Mon or Fri day off, of course. 

We also had a *broken* work day on the training night;  HQ full timers were allowed to leave at 1500 and had to be back for 1845.  If we went home, it was our choice but I don't ever remember anyone getting meals of travel assistance for it.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 09:48:56 by Eye In The Sky »
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Re: RegF Support Staff (RSS) - Reserve Trg hours [Merged]
« Reply #90 on: September 28, 2017, 10:17:39 »
Quote
Well, when you think about it, it makes sense.

Agree absolutely. At the unit for example, we worked Tuesday to Friday 0800 to 1600, plus Tuesday nights, 1900- 2200 and one Sat/Sun weekend a month, sometimes two in the Fall/Spring. FTX weekend were Fri/Sat/Sun. Bde HQ (Mil Gp HQ) was the same. Staff who maned Mondays got Friday off but worked the Friday if Monday was a Stat. Good Friday everyone got off. Personally, I don't know any unit full timers who got CTO for Stats worked. It seemed that every Feb, I worked every weekend, but that was partly self imposed. If you worked at Bde HQ and the unit quite often it was 2 weekends per month in the Spring/Fall. with no extra CTO asked or given.

Years ago it was Tuesday and Thursday nights, then Tuesday/Wednesday nights. Thanksgiving and Victoria Day weekends were usually 3 1/2 day FTX's

If you were tasked/volunteered to run/sp Recruit Basic etc you worked more weekends.

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