Author Topic: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??  (Read 20739 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PapaJuliet

  • Guest
  • *
  • 600
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21
ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« on: February 14, 2012, 01:27:33 »
Hi all,

I'm hoping someone could answer my question here. Is possible to transfer trades from ACSO to Pilot, and if it is possible, the likelihood of it. ACSO seems like a great trade, but I've always wanted to do pilot.

I've done the Glider and Power Pilot Scholarship courses through the Air Cadet program, finishing them both with top awards, marks and honours, and yet for some reason I did not pass CAPSS. 

I would need to earn a CPL to try CAPSS again, unless there is a way of bypassing it.  I've passed the ACSO test, so I have a few options in my mind:
-ROTP ACSO to complete my engineering degree, and perhaps do a trade transfer in the future
-Earn a CPL (which is very expensive) and try for CAPSS in a year or two
-Or to go through the civil route, which could include the cadet pilot programme with Cathay Pacific

More than anything though, I want to serve my country, which is why I'm determined to have a career in the CF.
If anyone could reply with some input or advice that would be great!!

Phil

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,377
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 02:32:03 »
It's possible to transfer from ACSO to Pilot.  But:

1.  ACSO has a 4-year Restricted Release period post-wings
2.  You would have to apply for Pilot anyway, along with the other people in the CF asking to switch. 

I'm not sure how likely it would be, but I do know of some who have done it.  You just can't do it right after getting your ACSO wings.
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

aesop081

  • Guest
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 04:56:22 »
I know 3 former Nav/ACSOs who later became pilots.

Dimsum, you know at least 2 of those 3.

Offline trampbike

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,660
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 118
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 16:46:32 »
-Earn a CPL (which is very expensive) and try for CAPSS in a year or two

It might not be as expensive as you think. You could find an aeroclub or an airplane owner that could sell you a big block of hours for a very decent price. While building your hours, make sure you optimize your flying so you only need the minimum hours in the air (always fly better than test standards and read a lot about flying).

You need only 35h of dual flying after your PPL to get your CPL (15 of which should be spent of instruments, assuming you only have done 5h of instrument time for your PPL). If you are serious and find a good instructor, you won't need more than that.

You do not have to do a ground course and pay the big bucks to write the TC exam. You can study by yourself and then get a letter of recommendation from an instructor (he might want to test you a bit or ask you to do a practise test at a FTU before he signs). Monitor your study time so you can show him that you spent at least 80h in your books.

Let's say you have 60h TT, here is what it could cost you:
35h of dual: 6000$
103h of PIC: 11 000$
2h test flight: 600$
Medical and written test: 300$

It can be done for less than 20 000$.
Apply for a loan and enjoy the ride!

Offline AGD

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,910
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 47
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 17:55:28 »
(15 of which should be spent of instruments, assuming you only have done 5h of instrument time for your PPL).

Assuming that those 5 hours of instrument time for the PPL is under the hood. If he did his PPL through cadets, there's a pretty good chance that 3 hours of instrument was acquired in the sim for obvious financial reasons. You can only count 10 hours of sim time toward the CPL. You also get another 5 hours under the hood as part of the night rating.

Also, make sure a lot of your PIC time counts as cross-country. Night cross-country PIC time is worth its weight in gold, actually. If you should ever decide to pursue an instrument rating or the ATPL by the civilian route, this will save you time and money.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 17:59:34 by AGD »

Offline PapaJuliet

  • Guest
  • *
  • 600
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 20:55:31 »
After some researching, the Victoria Flying Club offers a commercial pilot license for just over $10000:

http://www.flyvfc.com/flight_training/index.php?id=17&press=1&draw_column=1:3:2#CPL

Some of the cadets on my power course did their PPL training here. I did mine at Montair Aviation in Pitt Meadows.

Offline 2010newbie

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 6,401
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 351
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2012, 21:42:54 »
If you look closely, they are only showing 65 hours of flight time. That cost shown is not "all in". There's a little note stating "The table below does not take into account the hours students will have to accumulate over and above their compulsory training to reach the 200 hour minimum."

All flying schools/clubs will produce some sort of data sheet like this, but you need to read the fine print and fully understand what the CPL requirements are.

Offline AGD

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,910
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 47
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2012, 00:16:55 »
Here are the requirements, straight from the source:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/regserv/cars/part4-standards-421-1086.htm#421_30

Fun fact: You can count up to 50 hours of your glider time toward the 200 hours requirement.

Offline trampbike

  • Member
  • ****
  • 4,660
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 118
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2012, 12:31:03 »
All flying schools/clubs will produce some sort of data sheet like this, but you need to read the fine print and fully understand what the CPL requirements are.

Exactly. If someone decides to take the flight school path, he will end up paying way more than the aeroclub/block of hours on a private airplane path.

Thanks AGD, I forgot to mention the 50h glider time in my previous post. Then, if you do it right, you can definitely get your CPL for less than 20 000$.

Offline AGD

  • New Member
  • **
  • 1,910
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 47
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2012, 16:32:17 »
-Or to go through the civil route, which could include the cadet pilot programme with Cathay Pacific

Sorry, me again...if you go this route, don't expect to be jumping over to the CF any time soon. That cadet program is 61 weeks if you don't have a CPL and then you have to stick with them for a while (6 years, I think.) I'm going to guess that if you don't serve out your contract, you probably have to pay back a chunk of your training expenses. Also, they get swamped with thousand of applications from all over the world, so you can expect a rather long wait to get in.

Offline Gunshark

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 10,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 343
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2012, 14:21:54 »
Hey guys,

I'm also applying for Pilot position but haven't been scheduled for aircrew selection yet. I asked a recruiter the question about failing aircrew selection, and was told that "re-doing it" may mean something different in every case. If you only screwed up some small part, it might be quicker to fix. If you failed fundamentally, you would likely have to do more and it would take longer. This is what I've been told. This particular recruiter is with the Navy himself - I don't know if this affects his knowledge of the Air Force requirements - but he seemed nice and knowledgeable enough.

You guys have been told that a CPL is required in order to return to retake the CAPSS test? Seems harsh. What if I don't even have PPL? Would they ask me to get PPL instead of CPL?

I want to focus on passing the selection of course. But it doesn't hurt to have an idea of what to expect in case of failure. Thanks.

Offline Heff18

  • Member
  • ****
  • 5,350
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 137
  • Pilots: Looking down on you since 1909.
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 14:28:29 »
The way it's worked in the past is that you would need to upgrade your skills to the next level after an ASC failure.

No PPL -> PPL -> CPL -> ATPL.

Offline Gunshark

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 10,925
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 343
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 15:29:50 »
The way it's worked in the past is that you would need to upgrade your skills to the next level after an ASC failure.

No PPL -> PPL -> CPL -> ATPL.

Pretty crazy. Thanks for the input.

Offline EastCoast03

  • Guest
  • *
  • 410
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2012, 13:29:02 »
Does anyone know how the promotional opportunities compare between an ACSO and Pilot? are there as many opportunities for an ACSO to advance his/her career as there are for a pilot?

I'm currently being trained for an ACSO position (civvy u, just finished BMOQ last summer, going to SLT this upcoming summer) and I'm just worried about being stuck in a captain for life situation. This has made me consider attempting to VOT into a pilot position.

Offline MAJONES

  • Directing Staff
  • Member
  • *
  • 4,405
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 147
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2012, 15:42:32 »
That's a bit of a tricky question Eastcoast.  You will have to meet minimum requirements (OPME, AFOD, etc) for promotion in either field.  A lot of pilots actively avoid getting promoted because promotion means less flying time.  This means that the field is a bit more open for those pilots who do want to get promoted.
From what I've gleaned by talking with my Nav friends, promotion is a bit more competitive in their world because they are not so reticent to leave a flying position.

Offline Good2Golf

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 185,440
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,392
  • Dammit! I lost my sand-wedge on that last jump!
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2012, 19:45:36 »
Does anyone know how the promotional opportunities compare between an ACSO and Pilot? are there as many opportunities for an ACSO to advance his/her career as there are for a pilot?

I'm currently being trained for an ACSO position (civvy u, just finished BMOQ last summer, going to SLT this upcoming summer) and I'm just worried about being stuck in a captain for life situation. This has made me consider attempting to VOT into a pilot position.

There are a number of squadron COs and a few Wing Commander ACSOs out there...I would say there are relatively similar promotion opportunities between ACSO and PLT.

The most important thing to remember is never commit to do anything you aren't willing to do (i.e. if you don't ever transfer, you still have to be reasonably content with life as an ACSO).

Regards
G2G

Offline Dimsum

    West coast best coast.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 149,965
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,377
  • I get paid to travel. I just don't pick where.
Re: ACSO to Pilot Transfer??
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2012, 00:40:42 »
Well, former Chief of the Air Staff (now Comd RCAF) LGen Lucas was a Sea King ACSO.  So, I'd say career and promotion opportunities are there. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."