Author Topic: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet  (Read 70069 times)

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Offline bridges

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2012, 13:50:59 »
Is there an engineering study on file to justify this expenditure of public funds?  Moreover, is this a proper and authorized use of government IT resources?  The correct manner to solicit bids and then purchase a non-slip manhole cover (is "manhole" even politically correct?) would be to take the aforementioned engineering study, draft a stastement of requirements and post it on MERX.

Followed by a grievance and lawsuit by OPSEU aganst the DND/CF for taking work away from unionized city/NCC employees

[and others who've posted similar scenarios]

The bureaucrats don't have to do a thing... we're so well-trained, we put up our own roadblocks now.    ;)
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2012, 14:15:17 »
While all the paperwork is being typed up for action on Vimy centennial day (which if the issuance of the 1812 bicentennial pins is any indication, will take place in 2020); some enterprising young troop(s) could take a page from Mythbusters and spray truck bed lineer on the offending manhole cover one night. The alternative would be to get a mixture of paint and sand and apply the home made "no slip" surface; however you have to time this so the mixture has a day or two to dry.

In either case make sure the colour matches the original fairly closely; a bright yellow or international saftey orange manhole cover might arouse some comment, and public works will probably remove it right away and replace it with a "regulation" one until the paperwork is staffed and vetted.....
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Offline bridges

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2012, 14:48:49 »
...while creating a distraction for the RCMP officers who are parked right there? 
"Only a person of liberal mind is entitled to exercise coercion over others in a society of free men."   -General Sir John Winthrop Hackett, GCB, CBE, DSO & Bar, MC

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2012, 15:08:12 »
Get sued for not putting a tender out to various companies to allow them to bid on said manhole cover.

Come up with a set of tests the product needs to pass.

All products fail test.

Test is rewriten.

More bids, more testing.  One company finally wins.

Company takes additional 6 years to design the product and deliever it.

Long term solution indeed.

Sounds like you're buying an LSVW or four.....
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Offline cupper

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2012, 19:01:55 »
OK, so my first question opens up a can of worms.

But maybe we are looking at this all wrong.

We could develop a solution in house, and address the real problem, that CG's are getting hurt using bayonets.

Maybe we need to replace the real bayonet with a rubber bayonet. ;D

Or one made of stainless steel that has a dull edge and with a big ball on the end to prevent stabbing (I've actually seen ceremonial bayonets like this in museums). :nod:
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2012, 19:09:30 »
No, no. You have it wrong as well.

The solution, clearly, is a one day awareness course, complete with consultant presenter and video, on bayonet and manhole cover  safety and regulations. All CF members who may come into contact with a bayonet or parades will be required to complete this training NLT October 1st. This is to be top priority for all commanders.

Offline cupper

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2012, 19:22:41 »
or we could go back to wearing chain mail and steel breast plates and helmets.

(But then the Armoured Corps might get all up in arms.)
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Offline cupper

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2012, 19:24:42 »
Better still, have the CG march to the driveway entrance, then load them on trucks and drive across the manhole, then dismount and continue on their merry way.

Problem solved.
It's hard to win an argument against a smart person, it's damned near impossible against a stupid person.

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aesop081

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2012, 19:29:08 »


Problem solved.

Yes but then, another problem.

Who drives the trucks ? MSE Ops or Armoured Recce ?

Offline Michael O'Leary

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2012, 19:33:11 »
Surely there's a simpler way. Couldn't we just lay an AVLB across the hazard each day?    :D

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2012, 19:52:14 »
Surely there's a simpler way. Couldn't we just lay an AVLB across the hazard each day?    :D

Nope, all AVLB bridges now condemned, chassis suitable as driver trainers only.
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2012, 20:21:17 »
3PPCLI did a Freedom of the City parade in the summer of 87, a couple of months after we got the C-7s. After the CO finished pounding on City Halls door with his sword, we did a fix bayonets, and buddy somehow jabbed his left  thumb on the bayonet, and as we marched back to Workpoint, he was spraying everyone within 10 feet in blood (we were wearing the new tan DEUs).

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2012, 06:42:29 »

Someone took a picture and a newspaper, the Ottawa Citizen, published it. Now, in fairness, it is news; my daily walk often takes me to the Hill when the Ceremonial Guard* is there and I have never seen a soldier "thunder in," much less injure him/herself.

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* Is the proper name Ceremonial Guard or, as it was many, many years ago, the Public Duties Detachment?

This is the second serious injury for this group.  Another soldier stab himself in the shoulder doing a shoulder arms during the final rehearsals earlier in the week.  It is going to be a long, hot summer.
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Offline bridges

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2012, 08:53:23 »
Metal cleats can be tricky to march in, or even just carry your breakfast tray in the mess without ending up on the floor.   Metal-on-metal - sounds like a recipe for falling down. 

Where's the manhole cover in relation to their path - I don't suppose it's possible to move their right-wheel a foot or two to the left?   
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Offline acen

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2012, 13:22:35 »
Heard through the grapevine: PWGSC was out putting non-slip paint on the offending manhole covers yesterday (28 Jun). Hopefully this will improve the situation.

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2012, 17:44:19 »
speedy recovery troop
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Offline LineJumper

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2012, 00:41:28 »
Perhaps a request to 765 to have a Lineman remove the offending manhole cover for the duration of the ceremony?

(Edit to add)

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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #67 on: July 04, 2012, 10:28:12 »
Metal cleats can be tricky to march in, or even just carry your breakfast tray in the mess without ending up on the floor.   Metal-on-metal - sounds like a recipe for falling down. 

Where's the manhole cover in relation to their path - I don't suppose it's possible to move their right-wheel a foot or two to the left?   

This.  I came back to post when I had the epiphany of the fact that it was most likely the metal "clickers" that so many put under their boots.  What authority is given for that?  I'm not sure I recall anything in the dress manual about them.  If a CF98/accident report was done that should definitely be something to look at as a "cause" if it was the case.
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2012, 11:04:51 »
This.  I came back to post when I had the epiphany of the fact that it was most likely the metal "clickers" that so many put under their boots.  What authority is given for that?  I'm not sure I recall anything in the dress manual about them.  If a CF98/accident report was done that should definitely be something to look at as a "cause" if it was the case.

More likely a 663 Safety Report as well.
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #69 on: July 04, 2012, 11:51:03 »
This.  I came back to post when I had the epiphany of the fact that it was most likely the metal "clickers" that so many put under their boots.  What authority is given for that?  I'm not sure I recall anything in the dress manual about them.  If a CF98/accident report was done that should definitely be something to look at as a "cause" if it was the case.

They were a standard part of getting your boots done for years. It was just what was done. No need for authority. During Basic, you took one pair of boots and one pair of shoes to the shoemaker and had them double soled, double heeled and cleated. No idea what they do now.

I've had my boots done this way since the mid sixties, and still do. Many of our troops also have them. Our kit shop even sold cleats at one point, because they were hard to find.
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2012, 11:57:38 »
A quick perusal of the drill manual and the dress manual didn't reveal any CF authority / direction to modify boots like this.  Of course, someone will claim it's tradition, so common sense be damned.
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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2012, 12:03:44 »
They were a standard part of getting your boots done for years. It was just what was done. No need for authority. During Basic, you took one pair of boots and one pair of shoes to the shoemaker and had them double soled, double heeled and cleated. No idea what they do now.

I've had my boots done this way since the mid sixties, and still do. Many of our troops also have them. Our kit shop even sold cleats at one point, because they were hard to find.

From what I hear, apparently they're not permitted for wear anymore because they pose a slip, trip, and fall hazard on some floor surfaces depending on the materials used (paints, primers if any etc.). Also, being not permitted for wear around aircraft especially through smaller airports on smaller domestic lines which require you to walk across the pavement out to the stairs in order to board (although I don't know how often one would do so, in DEU with cleated boots). This is true when I was a cadet moons ago, but Is this true for the CF or not? I don't know, just what I heard on the grapevine of end-of-day grumblings before dinner  :P that it affected all services and branches. If someone in the know could clarify, that'd be super.

P.S. I love the sound of (hundreds) of cleated boots on parade. It'd be a shame if it was in fact, not permitted anymore.

Edit: Apparently, as dapaterson stated, it wasn't even permitted in the first place.

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2012, 12:08:31 »
It's a moot point until the investigation proves that was the cause.

I'm not going to speculate.
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Offline Brihard

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2012, 12:12:11 »
Every rank and file on parade wears clickers on their boots. Having been there, done that I'll quite readily speculate that the clickers are in part or whole at fault. They're bloody dangerous, and I know few guys who've done CG and not wiped out in them.
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Offline Bzzliteyr

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Re: Member of Ceremonial Guard Wounded by Bayonet
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2012, 12:17:22 »
I got mine done when I joined and still have them on.  I admit they are nice to hear and sound impressive but i have seen a few people slip thanks to them and suspect it to be the case here.
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