Author Topic: Pilot shortage?  (Read 27114 times)

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Offline Messerschmitt

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Pilot shortage?
« on: September 10, 2012, 21:51:07 »
At CFLRS 40 out of 60 in the ROTP platoon were airforce.
aprox 25 out of 40 were pilots.

Just wondering if there is a slight pilot shortage (can't really see it happening since everybody wants to be one), or if they are recruiting a lot of pilots because of the high failure rate (60%), and this is normal

Offline RobOfstie

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2012, 23:03:48 »
I was told this year there were approximately 180 Pilot Slots total for the various entry plans.  That is an exceptionally large number of open slots as compared to previous years.  This number obviously changes from year to year based on various things such as attrition, budgets, training failures etc. etc, but isn't directly related to training failures alone. 

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Rob

 

Offline trampbike

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 14:19:09 »
At CFLRS 40 out of 60 in the ROTP platoon were airforce.
aprox 25 out of 40 were pilots.

Which platoon are you talking about?
Most ROTP platoons this summer were from CMR/RMC, and had few pilots. The platoons from Civi-U also had only a couple of pilots.
Are you talking about a DEO platoon that started mid-August?
 

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 21:44:51 »
At CFLRS 40 out of 60 in the ROTP platoon were airforce.
aprox 25 out of 40 were pilots.

Just wondering if there is a slight pilot shortage (can't really see it happening since everybody wants to be one), or if they are recruiting a lot of pilots because of the high failure rate (60%), and this is normal

Why does it matter


Offline Brihard

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 22:05:10 »
I'm curious- when all is said and done, out of every 100 who are enrolled in the CF as a pilot, how many actually pass all their phases and reach the operationally functional point (I hope I have the applicable term) in their MOS?
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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2012, 23:17:06 »
About 80/year graduate with wings, so depending on what the front-end totals are at the CFRCs, one could be looking at 1:40-1:50 odds. (based on 3200-4000 applicants...itself a WAG...I have been out of recruiting for a very long time).

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G2G

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 09:18:24 »
At CFLRS 40 out of 60 in the ROTP platoon were airforce.
aprox 25 out of 40 were pilots.

Just wondering if there is a slight pilot shortage (can't really see it happening since everybody wants to be one), or if they are recruiting a lot of pilots because of the high failure rate (60%), and this is normal

Pilot is the largest officer occupation group in the air force by a wide margin, and is the second largest in the CF (or maybe the largest? Don't have the PML numbers here right now).  It would be normal to have what looks like a lot of recruits. 

The flying training system has a very limited capacity, so recruiting more than normal just puts a lot of people into long, discouraging waits.  "They" did that a while back after the highly publicized pilot shortage and guys were waiting multiple years just to go to BFT - wait times are now appearing a lot more normal although I'm sure there are still outliers.

Hell, when I went back to school there was only one other pre-wing pilot OJT at the squadron and he's going to Moose Jaw shortly.  At the peak there were nearer two dozen.

Offline Messerschmitt

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2012, 19:34:50 »
I'm curious- when all is said and done, out of every 100 who are enrolled in the CF as a pilot, how many actually pass all their phases and reach the operationally functional point (I hope I have the applicable term) in their MOS?

Someone who failed the 2nd phase towards the end told me the fail rate is 50%-60% through the 3 phases.

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2012, 20:37:02 »
Someone who failed the 2nd phase towards the end told me the fail rate is 50%-60% through the 3 phases.
While I have no dog in this fight, I think I'd take my stats from the qualified, currently-serving pilot rather than "someone who failed in Ph 2"    ;)

Offline bdb1231

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 09:45:15 »
What is the largest officer occupation in CF? In the recent years, what is the percentage of pilot graduate who obtained PPL before they apply to CF?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 09:50:59 »
The two largest officer occupations inthe CF are Pilot and Logistics; the numbers are close.

As for why one course would have had a large number of pilots on it:

Believe it or not, the recruiting and training systems try to work in harmony - so recruiting is sequenced so that successful grads from BMOQ can move on with minimal delay to their occupational training. 
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Offline bdb1231

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 09:54:11 »
Is the number of ACSO almost as high as number of pilots? Since every pilot generally fly with at least 1 ACSO.

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 10:01:55 »
Since every pilot generally fly with at least 1 ACSO.
Pray tell, why would they do that?   :pop:

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 10:04:11 »
Is the number of ACSO almost as high as number of pilots? Since every pilot generally fly with at least 1 ACSO.

No.  ACSOs are mainly in the Aurora, Sea King, Buffalo and older Herc fleets, with some more scattered amongst Alpha Jet, AWACS (outside Canada) and Polaris (while operating as a tanker.)  There are many fleets which do not have ACSOs.
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Offline MAJONES

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 10:24:02 »
There are many fleets which do not have ACSOs.

Thank God!  ;D

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 10:27:07 »
For those with more than a passing interest in such things, there are reports posted to the DWAN that show the forecast for the next three years for each occupation by rank - called the Projected Status Report, or PSR.  It forecasts attrition, production and promotion, then maps against PML.

Go to the CMP Homepage, to DGMP, to DPGR, to Production Reports.

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Offline bdb1231

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 12:42:42 »
Whats is DGMP, to DPGR, to Production Reports.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 12:48:22 »
Whats is DGMP, to DPGR, to Production Reports.

Did you follow the first step first?

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 12:50:05 »
He has no access; it's DWAN.

....so you'll have to personally answer all his questions now.   >:D

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 12:50:25 »
Whats is DGMP, to DPGR, to Production Reports.

Those are the links to select.

DGMP = Director General Military Personnel

DPGR = Director Personnel Generation Requirements
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Offline bdb1231

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 13:07:49 »
Is there a link that show # of people per occupation? If so, where is the link?

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 13:25:19 »
If you are a CF member or a member of the public service with access to the DWAN, then the information is available as I outlined above.
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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 14:53:32 »
Since every pilot generally fly with at least 1 ACSO.

Why on Earth do you think that ??

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 14:56:22 »
Why on Earth do you think that ??

Because pilots need adult supervision?   >:D
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Offline bdb1231

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 15:18:27 »
I thought there is at least one ACSO on every aircraft.......fighter, helicopter, jet.

aesop081

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 15:34:36 »
I thought there is at least one ACSO on every aircraft.......fighter, helicopter, jet.

You were thinking wrong.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 15:54:45 »


Can you tell me where the ACSO fits in that aircraft?

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 16:29:09 »
Because pilots need adult supervision?   >:D


Nah!  It's more for morale puposes.  Whenever the pilot is having a really sh!tty day he can look at the ACSO and think, "At least I'm not him."  ;D

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 18:03:21 »
Can you tell me where the ACSO fits in that aircraft?

In the seat, while a pilot flies the jet remotely via Tampa, using TCDL TCS Level 5?

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 18:14:33 »
In the seat, while a pilot flies the jet remotely via Tampa, using TCDL TCS Level 5?

Maybe one day, not yet though ;)

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Pilot shortage?
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2012, 21:17:54 »
In the seat, while a pilot flies the jet remotely via Tampa, using TCDL TCS Level 5?

Please.  We (and our Sensor Operators) will be the ones in Tampa/Creech/on a US carrier, flying them while the fast-jet Pilots wonder where their jobs went  ;)

*OK, maybe not on a US Carrier.  Yet.
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