Author Topic: Leap-Frogging?  (Read 8467 times)

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Offline Duckman54

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Leap-Frogging?
« on: December 06, 2012, 16:04:56 »
Read a few posts in here, and a couple of Blogs floating about out there that SUGGEST - but don't say definitively - that it MAY be possible to progress through the Pilot training steps a little faster...

For example, after BMOQ, I've heard that *IF* "proficient" en francais, it's possible to skip that first OJT period and then language training, and move straight towards the next available PFT at Southport. I did well in highschool french, and have a basic understanding...  would be willing to study like crazy in meantime (Rosetta Stone at home, or something similar?) in order to avoid months of OJT, then more months at St. Jean, then more months on OJT again before PFT.

Consequently, I've also heard that if already in possession of Commercial license  (and Multi-IFR?), then they MAY skip over PFT entirely and place a trainee directly into Phase II - Basic Flight Training.  From all I've read about the PFT course, this makes sense, as nothing I've seen so far in the descriptions I've read - with the exception of some CF policies and procedures - seems completely unique to military aviation.

Now, of course I could be totally out in left field here....  hence the post seeking confirmation or quashing!
Thanks in advance, all!
If you don't know where you're going, any road'll take you there!

Offline skyhigh10

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 18:25:09 »
Just want to sit in that seat eh ?

I can provide some insight though I am sure others can provide much more.

There are a variety of different ways people bypass and I think it comes down to what the current demands are within the CF. However,  you're evaluated accordingly @ second language training. I know of some who bypassed second language training due to extenuating circumstances such as family proximity etc.   Some will grasp their second language much quicker than others and wrap up quicker. In the event second language training is postponed, you will attend OJT and move on in due time (second language training will return). I have heard of some who bypassed both. I think it comes down to timing and CF needs. 

I have a question for you. Do you personally see any benefits when it comes to attending second language training or OJT?

I do! 

Oh... and as far as I know, those with CPL's bypass PFT and move into BFT.     MIFR not needed.
A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

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Offline 2010newbie

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2012, 01:56:58 »
I think it comes down to timing and CF needs. 

SLT takes a backseat to pilot training (unless your first language is French). I have not attended SLT, nor have I ever done a language test, but I was loaded onto PFT. Like you said, it comes down to available spots and what the CF deem as a priority at that given moment. Pilot training is not as back-logged as it was in prior years. Things are moving fairly quickly with about a 6 month wait between PFT and BFT.

Quote
Oh... and as far as I know, those with CPL's bypass PFT and move into BFT.     MIFR not needed.

This is incorrect. Under the old PFT syllabus you could request a PFT bypass. It was not automatically given (except UWO CAM). I don't know of anyone that has bypassed PFT under the new syllabus and I am not sure that you even can. I personally would not want to skip it. It is less than 20 hours of flight time and does not take too long to complete (weather and gremlins aside).

Offline Duckman54

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2012, 10:50:18 »
Thanks, fellas!

Good lord, no, french is NOT my first language...  but I pick up language pretty easy. Started learning Russian 'just for fun'!
And wanting that seat?  Darn right!  As stated, already got CPL/M-IFR, but that only gets you so far...   read: poor pay, no fun.

Fair enough that syllabus's change. I've heard conflicting things on both questions, which is why I asked. LOTS of rules/regs/SOP's to memorize in PFT I'll bet, plus a 20hr course on something fun & fully aerobatic sounds like a blast! Especially while getting paid to do it!
Also, I agree... the OJT and SLT could also both be great experiences.
Ok, so once slotted in (thinking positively!) I'll expect to do the whole program.

My main reason for asking was actually financial...  flying has always been my passion, but oh so hard to find a decent-paying flying job. Got a gov't union job now (decent pay approx 4200/mo, security, benefits, pension, etc.) and looking at pay grids, the 2LT DEO pay is less than what I make now!   So, if after BMOQ I've got MONTHS kickin' around on OJT, then more months at SLT  (which, as Newbie said MAY not happen), and then more months OJT again before that PFT, then I gotta plan on some serious time taking home LESS than I do currently.

Some have told be the stay at rank 2LT is very brief, but I can't see moving up to 1LT before even passing BFT, never mind PFT!  Looks like I'd better crunch s'more numbers, and be prepared to take quite a step back financially in order to do this...

Thankfully, I've got 100% support of my amazing wife, who understands that doing something you hate, just for $$, is NO way to live. She knows I simply HAVE to at least try this...  I'm in Public Service now, but I feel I'm serving the WRONG people...  I'm not looking to get rich, good grief, I know that'll never happen in Mil!!  I just need to be able to get by while doing something I love.  I'd be *honored* to be called upon to fly for our country in any capacity. I'd be just as happy lugging humanitarian aid in big-ol Hercs, or resupplying our troops in C-17's, or dogfighting, or gawd forbid repatriating our fallen...

I wanna serve, and I don't ask much in return...  just don't wanna have to bankrupt my family to do it!

'Greg.
If you don't know where you're going, any road'll take you there!

Offline 2010newbie

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2012, 11:04:28 »

Some have told be the stay at rank 2LT is very brief, but I can't see moving up to 1LT before even passing BFT, never mind PFT!  Looks like I'd better crunch s'more numbers, and be prepared to take quite a step back financially in order to do this...

IIRC, you will stay at 2LT until you get your wings.

I was in a similar situation as you in the sense that I had a good career prior to joining. I took about a 90 % pay cut to be in the military and while it has been challenging at times, you always find a way to make things work if it is what you truly want.

Offline skyhigh10

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 11:15:51 »
T.

This is incorrect. Under the old PFT syllabus you could request a PFT bypass. It was not automatically given (except UWO CAM). I don't know of anyone that has bypassed PFT under the new syllabus and I am not sure that you even can. I personally would not want to skip it. It is less than 20 hours of flight time and does not take too long to complete (weather and gremlins aside).

Thanks for the response 2010.

Can you tell me when the new syllabus came into service?  Two individuals I know of who entered in 2010 received a PFT bypass. From what I've been told, the bypass has worked out well for the CF and even better for those who graduated from said flight programs in previous years. As you said, 20 hours of additional training can't hurt any applicant. I figured it was a cost saving measure. 

Best of luck to both of you.

Cheers
A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.

- J.F.K.

Offline crosswind

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 11:24:59 »
Thanks for the response 2010.

Can you tell me when the new syllabus came into service?  Two individuals I know of who entered in 2010 received a PFT bypass. From what I've been told, the bypass has worked out well for the CF and even better for those who graduated from said flight programs in previous years. As you said, 20 hours of additional training can't hurt any applicant. I figured it was a cost saving measure. 

Best of luck to both of you.

Cheers

I have a friend last year who bypassed PFT, and I was told the same would happen for me (DEO PLT starting BMOQ in Jan).  But who knows, maybe the standards have changed recently.  I'll guess I'll just have to wait to find out.

Offline 2010newbie

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 11:28:04 »
My serial was the "Field Trial" for the new syllabus. The first trial serial was in February or March of 2012. After May 2012, everyone was on the new syllabus. As I am sure you have heard before, having prior flight experience does not guarantee that you will be successful in PFT or BFT. You have fewer tasks to carry out in the aircraft, but the learning curve in the new syllabus is steeper than the old syllabus. It is definitely more of a selection course than a training course. We nicknamed it "Aircrew Selection Course Extended". I believe I finished the course with a whopping total of 14 hours flight time. All my hours fit on one page in my log book. It is a very quick course.

Offline crosswind

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2012, 11:42:33 »
Good to know.  I guess this new information hadn't been clearly communicated through the recruiting process

Offline Downhiller229

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2012, 12:03:05 »
Someone I know passed ASC last week and was told he could fit in every CF aircraft except the Grob.  He was told in Toronto his recourse was a CPL so he could bypass PFT and carry on from there. He would be incredibly bummed if this wasn't the case.

Offline 2010newbie

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2012, 12:13:14 »
Someone I know passed ASC last week and was told he could fit in every CF aircraft except the Grob.  He was told in Toronto his recourse was a CPL so he could bypass PFT and carry on from there. He would be incredibly bummed if this wasn't the case.

Do you know what it was that prevented him from fitting?

Like I said earlier, I don't know anyone who had a PFT bypass for the new syllabus and in talking with some of the instructors in Portage it wasn't clear if it was still possible or not as some were saying that it was no longer possible uner the new syllabus. If I were him, I would request them to look into it prior to spending cash on a CPL.

Offline Downhiller229

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2012, 12:24:53 »
Seated height 13mm over. He's green on everything else. Apparently the Sergeant that debriefed him handed him documentation stating the steps required for a bypass. Would be kind of a bummer that he would get excluded because he didn't fit in an aircraft he would only spend a few hours in.

Offline 2010newbie

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2012, 12:31:05 »
Yeah, that isn't any fun. Good luck to him, hope it works out.

Offline Heff18

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Re: Leap-Frogging?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2012, 11:09:30 »
A bunch of DEO friends just finished BMOQ and went straight to OJT at various squadrons the day after graduating until their respective PFT/BFT courses set to start a few months from now. I know two of them received a PFT-bypass, although one of them is a DEO UWO-CAM student (MIFR, but not through the military), so I'm not sure if that had any impact on granting his bypass.