Author Topic: Airframe selection after BFT  (Read 25287 times)

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Offline MasterInstructor

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Airframe selection after BFT
« on: December 30, 2012, 01:27:32 »
I am  looking for some insight to selection process after your BFT.

Are you asked your preferences?

What are the chances of getting what you asked for?

Which airframes needs most pilots right now?

Which option do most ask for?

I am interested in Multi Engine.

I am currently a NCM and I am aware that they will post me wherever they need me etc. I already had to select a shore after my 3s and 11 out of 12 got what they wanted. I see MARS officers selecting their D level courses all the time and majority get it. I am just trying to get a sense and not looking for facts.

Offline SF2

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 15:46:55 »
You state your preferences but ultimately are employed to meet the needs of the forces.

But first things first - get your wings.

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 18:24:31 »
This has been addressed multiple times.  Try a search, or just surf the site.

Offline MasterInstructor

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 22:17:17 »
Yes it has been covered, but if you actually read my questions, thread that is 4 years old does not answer my questions. I am looking for current information not 4 years old...

I also know the standard answer.

I am looking for answer from someone recently went through it.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 22:56:48 »
It hasn't changed in at least three decades, which is when I went through that.

In another three decades, you will be pointing this out to another young worrier asking the same thing, and feeling just as frustrated as we are now when people fret about the same minor things over, and over, and over.

Relax. Enjoy the present for what it is. It does not last anywhere nearly long enough.

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 23:05:31 »
I recently did a trip through Moose Jaw and Portage and I had the opportunity to speak with a fair number of student pilots.  I would say that there's a fairly even split between folks wanting to go multi and helos.  Going fighters as well as staying in the Jaw after Wings to instruct both seemed pretty low on people's wish list.

Like SF2 said, concentrate on dedicating yourself to passing the course and getting your wings.  Everything from that on in, is gravy...

Cheers
G2G


edit: to correct spelling of help...errrr....helos.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 11:50:36 by Good2Golf »

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 00:26:21 »
Yes it has been covered, but if you actually read my questions, thread that is 4 years old does not answer my questions. I am looking for current information not 4 years old...

I also know the standard answer.

I am looking for answer from someone recently went through it.

If you want wings, (like I've got), you'd better adjust that attitude.  The answer, is, and always has been, you'll go where the service can use you based on your abilities and the needs of the service.  That situation is so fluid that there is no point speculating on it until you're just about done BFT.   

Offline Strike

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 08:04:24 »
If you want wings, (like I've got), you'd better adjust that attitude. 

And having wings does not give you the right to give attitude either. Every single poster in this thread, minus the OP, has their wings and yours was the only one that dripped of attitude. (Well, maybe mine now too, but which I believe was needed for the reply)
Stop assuming I'm a man!

Don't know how long I want to keep playing this game...

Offline MasterInstructor

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 12:52:45 »
Thanks for answers, I had a chance to talk to 1 Major and 3 Captains in the past few days and got some very valuable info from them as well.

I love flying, i am in a plane partnership. I never considered as a career before and I am trying to decide, one of the major factors is where I will be living and what I will be flying for the time I am going to commit to Air Force. I have a wife and her well being is also very important to me. I am trying to make a very important life decision and I am just trying to get as much information as possible so I can make the right one. 

Happy New Year from Gulf of Oman!

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 13:52:24 »
Thanks for answers, I had a chance to talk to 1 Major and 3 Captains in the past few days and got some very valuable info from them as well.

I love flying, i am in a plane partnership. I never considered as a career before and I am trying to decide, one of the major factors is where I will be living and what I will be flying for the time I am going to commit to Air Force. I have a wife and her well being is also very important to me. I am trying to make a very important life decision and I am just trying to get as much information as possible so I can make the right one. 

Happy New Year from Gulf of Oman!

Aside from fighters being pretty much remote locations at either 3 or 4 Wing, there is a wide variation of local area amenities, etc... related to all the fleets.  Maritime helicopters are big coast cities, transport is primarily Southern Ontario, with some out layers in Greenwood and Winnipeg, maritime patrol in Greenwood and Comox are both a couple of hours away from the big coast cities that MH folks live in, SAR is all over, with some spots near large population centers (Trenton) and others fairly remote (Goose, Gander, Yellowknife...) and five squadrons of tactical aviation pretty much live with Army brigades and two additional locations in Barrie and Montreal.

Cheers
G2G

Offline Ditch

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 13:58:06 »
Expect a posting to Yellowknife or Petawawa - if that doesn't sit well with you, a flying career in the CF is not for you. 
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline RobOfstie

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 14:01:18 »
If you want wings, (like I've got), you'd better adjust that attitude.

Heh.  As the old joke goes, how do you know there's a Pilot in the room?  Don't worry, he'll tell you......   >:D

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 23:40:43 »
It's basically exactly the same as when you were on your threes, although that was mostly an appearance of making a choice rather than an actual choice. You go where there's room, where they need people or where they otherwise think you should go. Sometimes the needs of the CF fit pretty well with the desires of people on course, other times not so much - on my threes, only two of us got the coast we wanted. As far as the navy goes, you aren't even actually assigned a Home Port Division until after your QL5, so you could (technically, never seen it) experience an involuntary change of coast at any time, which makes the "choice" pretty superficial.

Based on your previous posts, what you need to really be worrying about now is your commissioning plan, anything else is fantasizing. You need your LS and QL5 for UTP, then you have to pass aircrew selection (then, pass PFT, finish school, and hopefully pass BFT. Even then you are stream selected, not airframe selected). UTP is very, very competitive: in 2011, three of us were picked up for pilot (TOTAL) and at least two of us didn't even apply for UTP. We were picked when CEOTP was closed. I applied for pilot three times, and navigator another time (failed the nav test, heh). I was a 6A qual'd PO2 (8-and-some yrs in). No doubt you feel lectured-to, but you've picked the hard route and I speak from experience saying that the best approach is one step at a time. If you have another awesome plan, then ignore me.

My OJT observations are consistent with G2G's, fighters are not on most folks' dreamsheets, and no one even mentions wanting to stay to instruct in MJ. I would like to do either one but am so far away from that point it doesn't matter much. In the end I'd be happy anywhere, except probably the hard francophone postings for my wife's sake (Bagotville, Valcartier).

Happy New Year.

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 00:31:14 »
Heh.  As the old joke goes, how do you know there's a Pilot in the room?  Don't worry, he'll tell you......   >:D

It's funny 'cos it's true! :nod:

Quote
And having wings does not give you the right to give attitude either.

That wasn't attitude, it was clarification.  OP said he wanted to hear from people who had been through the program.  Now he has.  They just told him the same stuff that the search function would have yielded.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 00:41:17 by MAJONES »

Offline MasterInstructor

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 00:44:13 »
It's basically exactly the same as when you were on your threes, although that was mostly an appearance of making a choice rather than an actual choice. You go where there's room, where they need people or where they otherwise think you should go. Sometimes the needs of the CF fit pretty well with the desires of people on course, other times not so much - on my threes, only two of us got the coast we wanted. As far as the navy goes, you aren't even actually assigned a Home Port Division until after your QL5, so you could (technically, never seen it) experience an involuntary change of coast at any time, which makes the "choice" pretty superficial.

Based on your previous posts, what you need to really be worrying about now is your commissioning plan, anything else is fantasizing. You need your LS and QL5 for UTP, then you have to pass aircrew selection (then, pass PFT, finish school, and hopefully pass BFT. Even then you are stream selected, not airframe selected). UTP is very, very competitive: in 2011, three of us were picked up for pilot (TOTAL) and at least two of us didn't even apply for UTP. We were picked when CEOTP was closed. I applied for pilot three times, and navigator another time (failed the nav test, heh). I was a 6A qual'd PO2 (8-and-some yrs in). No doubt you feel lectured-to, but you've picked the hard route and I speak from experience saying that the best approach is one step at a time. If you have another awesome plan, then ignore me.

My OJT observations are consistent with G2G's, fighters are not on most folks' dreamsheets, and no one even mentions wanting to stay to instruct in MJ. I would like to do either one but am so far away from that point it doesn't matter much. In the end I'd be happy anywhere, except probably the hard francophone postings for my wife's sake (Bagotville, Valcartier).

Happy New Year.

Thanks a lot for the info!

I completely appreciate the honesty.

"My Plan" is to apply for CEOTP as well as UTP in 2013. I have 2 years of university  done already (I have been doing online courses). I also have a PPL with enough hours for CPL, I plan to start that ASAP and finish before summer, which would get me to skip PFT in the military. I am hoping CPL and 2 years of university will be in favour during the application process.


Offline Dimsum

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2013, 01:28:07 »
Expect a posting to Yellowknife or Petawawa - if that doesn't sit well with you, a flying career in the CF is not for you.

A Pilot career, maybe, but not as an ACSO/AESOP/SAR TECH.  Ya know, those "other" guys who also have flying careers.   ;)
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Melbatoast

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2013, 13:29:24 »
Thanks a lot for the info!

I completely appreciate the honesty.

"My Plan" is to apply for CEOTP as well as UTP in 2013. I have 2 years of university  done already (I have been doing online courses). I also have a PPL with enough hours for CPL, I plan to start that ASAP and finish before summer, which would get me to skip PFT in the military. I am hoping CPL and 2 years of university will be in favour during the application process.

I had two+ years of university, and OPMEs, too. Flying experience is not worth very much on your application. It's your prerogative if you want to finish your CPL, but cost/benefit is way out of whack as far as an application goes. Something like PLQ is worth a lot more, they like seeing OPMEs done (which isn't really possible anymore), doing that ALLIES FORCE language training online, community leadership, secondary duties, and so on. This is completely anecdotal but no one I know, and I know a few, that applied based on their flying experience has been picked up.

Also keep in mind that if you fail ASC and have a CPL, you are pretty much at the end of the road. Leaving that trick in your bag may not be a bad idea.

For UTP, you have to do an "ideal" degree for pilot, which they have tightened up recently. It now has to be a hard science (physics, chemistry), engineering, space science or "aviation" whatever that may be.  They don't care what you're doing now as long as you can get in to one of those programs, and will fund the full four years, but just a heads up. I had to go from a history program to a BSc program which was a bit of a shock.

You'll also want to look into how many got picked up for CEO (internal selection) over the years. It's not many, and the program closes without notice regularly. You also go into a unique pay category as a CEO. UTPs keep all their pay, including spec pay. By all means apply for both, but CEO is a pretty crappy deal all around in my opinion, while UTP is one of the best in the CF.

Offline MAJONES

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 22:25:41 »
A Pilot career, maybe, but not as an ACSO/AESOP/SAR TECH.  Ya know, those "other" guys who also have flying careers self loading cargo.   ;)

Fixed that for ya. ;D

Offline SF2

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2013, 07:35:50 »
^^wow
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 07:44:07 by SF2 »

Online Good2Golf

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2013, 12:23:51 »
^^wow

 :nod: ...and coming from someone who most likely doesn't fuel or B-release his own aircraft...


Regards
G2G

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2013, 14:27:25 »
Fixed that for ya. ;D

Actually I believe the proper term is self loading baggage.   Cargo is an insulting term.   8)
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 14:31:45 by Eye In The Sky »
Pilot, RADAR...turn right, heading...3-6-5...

Offline lstpierre

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2013, 14:33:54 »
My course just had our selection here in moose jaw 2 weeks ago. Preferences were 8 people that wanted jets, 7 wanted multi, and only 1 wanted helo. Seems to be a pretty standard break down on the surrounding courses as well. We ended up getting 4 multi slots 4 jet slots and the rest helo. The course before us had 2 multi spots 6 helo and no jets and the one before that had 3 jets 1 multi 10 helo.

« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 14:40:12 by lstpierre »

Offline MasterInstructor

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2013, 14:43:11 »
That is great info thanks. Exactly what I was looking for! Seems like need for helo is much greater right now...

Offline lstpierre

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2013, 14:54:54 »
I have no idea how the planners allocate slots for a given course. I assume it's a lot like the way a new pope gets chosen... Or maybe the way houses are assigned at Hogwarts.

Offline HappyWithYourHacky

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Re: Airframe selection after BFT
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2013, 15:04:22 »
Actually I believe the proper term is self loading baggage.   Cargo is an insulting term.   8)

Some aircrew believe their actual baggage is self loading...Always good for a chuckle when they realize it's still sitting on the ramp.  :D