Author Topic: Tablets  (Read 50704 times)

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Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2014, 08:39:16 »
Not enough room in a vehicle, rucks to heavy and having to update the pages daily, come on guys! We are talking about a range here and I think everyone's managed so far with range boxes with hard copies of pubs.

If someone can give a real world example of how not having an e-reader/tablet at a range vice the pubs actually impacting training I'd like to hear.

Adding new electronic equipment to our inventory is very difficult. There's risks involved, a lot of behind the scenes training and maintenance, modifying or loading special software for DWAN access, ruggedizing... It's doable, but for the right reasons. If there's a real training deficiency identified that e-readers or tablets will fill on a range then the military will start moving to fix that.

Offline recceguy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2014, 08:48:10 »
So we should just stay locked in the 20th century because someone doesn't want extra work.
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline Jed

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2014, 09:43:06 »
MOOXE, I am surprised you have already acquired the attitude that if I gave you that pair of socks I have in the back then I would not have the reserve pair to sit on the shelf.  :D
As the old man used to say: " I used to be a coyote, but I'm alright nooooOOOOWWW!"

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2014, 10:35:01 »
When I was at AUSA 2006 I saw a ruggedized tablet which had VoIP and a radio module, you could download maps, docs and various other programs (it ran Windows, which was the only weakness in that concept) and use it as a VHF voice and data radio platform too.

Since it was somewhat smaller and lighter than an AN/PRC 522 (roughly the size/weight of a CF-28 ruggedized laptop) I think we have a winning concept there. Replace the Windows OS with a UNIX based one and we can use the ruggedized tablet for far more than just storing and reading pams on the range...
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 11:53:24 by Thucydides »
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2014, 11:48:27 »
I had all my relevant pams in .pdf format and loaded on my KOBO reader.

Worked fine for anyone needing a quick reference and you couldn't play any stupid games on it.

For manuals and such the Kobo reader is great and has a long battery life, not sure how long it will survive the field though. At $79 from Staples, it worth experimenting with. The BC library system is built to work with Kobo reader, does the military have a electronic library system as well?

(My wife says it's worth immigrating to Canada just for our library system alone)

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2014, 11:51:43 »
Its not for a Kobo, but Otterbox makes cases for the Kindle Fire:

http://www.otterbox.com/Defender-Series-for-the-All-New-Kindle-Fire-HD-7%E2%80%9D/amz2-kindle-fire-hd-7-allNew,default,pd.html?dwvar_amz2-kindle-fire-hd-7-allNew_color=20&start=1&cgid=amazon-kindle-fire-hd-7-all-new-cases

Would be rugged enough for most field applications. Not 100% waterproof but thats why we have ziplock bags.

Offline Newt

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2014, 12:20:14 »
What about something like this? http://www.meetearl.com/

Rugged body.
Integrated solar panel.
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Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2014, 16:14:49 »
So we should just stay locked in the 20th century because someone doesn't want extra work.

Troll.

I would love to be the guy who acquired new equipment to fill a void. As signalers we're also consultants. Our job is not to say yes to every request that comes down the pipe. I am going to advise you based on your requirements and my experience with technology. In this specific case my advise is that tablets are absolutely the wrong piece of equipment for the task. We have alternatives that fulfill the requirement now which nobody can dispute.

To answer the OPs original question. New technology is always being looked at, including tablets. From what I have heard though, there is a directive from the army forbidding any purchases of tablets. Can't quote or give a reference on that sorry. Its probably based on a number of issues such as finance and security.

Offline recceguy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2014, 16:19:00 »
Troll.

I would love to be the guy who acquired new equipment to fill a void. As signalers we're also consultants. Our job is not to say yes to every request that comes down the pipe. I am going to advise you based on your requirements and my experience with technology. In this specific case my advise is that tablets are absolutely the wrong piece of equipment for the task. We have alternatives that fulfill the requirement now which nobody can dispute.

To answer the OPs original question. New technology is always being looked at, including tablets. From what I have heard though, there is a directive from the army forbidding any purchases of tablets. Can't quote or give a reference on that sorry. Its probably based on a number of issues such as finance and security.

Careful with the named calling.

I asked a question to clarify your reluctance. Sorry if you didn't expect to get called on your opinion.
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2014, 16:21:17 »
And sorry if you didn't expect to get called on your comment.

Offline recceguy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2014, 16:25:20 »
And sorry if you didn't expect to get called on your comment.

I did expect a response. That's why I asked the question.

What I did expect was an informed opinion, not childish name calling.

So cut the smarmy crap and stick to the subject.
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2014, 16:31:44 »
"So we should just stay locked in the 20th century because someone doesn't want extra work."

I didn't see a question. Just a sarcastic remark intended to make incite a reaction.




Offline recceguy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2014, 16:33:08 »
Sure. Whatever. I forgot a question mark, sue me.

Your obviously not interested in exploring the subject except for your own view.

So have a nice day.

You've beaten me. I'll just take my KOBO that served me so well in the field, cheaply and without worry, and go home :salute:
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2014, 16:44:14 »
MOOXE,....lighten up lad, I would have asked the same question as RG did.

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Offline Loachman

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2014, 16:52:54 »
As signalers we're also consultants. Our job is not to say yes to every request that comes down the pipe. I am going to advise you based on your requirements and my experience with technology. In this specific case my advise is that tablets are absolutely the wrong piece of equipment for the task. We have alternatives that fulfill the requirement now which nobody can dispute.

I have about three decades worth of experience, out of four in uniform in total, of "consultants" and experts  - and not just sigs "consultants" and experts - "advising" us based upon their superior knowledge of our requirements and then throwing out every obstacle to satisfying real needs imaginable.

Operators tend to understand their requirements much better than consultants, and are generally quite aware of the viable technological solutions to those requirements. They have, as some here have stated, even confirmed what works and what doesn't using their own kit.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2014, 16:59:33 »
I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth when my unit borrowed some moving trucks to conduct a weekend gunnery exercise and left the horses behind in the early 30's. You need to allow a certain amount of experimentation at the field level to try out new ideas and they can be submitted for further review and polishing. Tech is changing far faster than government can deal with it. Letting interested individuals play with it at the field level will shave years and millions off of R&D projects. There are pitfalls and a certain level of failures should be encouraged.

Offline recceguy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2014, 17:02:40 »
I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth when my unit borrowed some moving trucks to conduct a weekend gunnery exercise and left the horses behind in the early 30's. You need to allow a certain amount of experimentation at the field level to try out new ideas and they can be submitted for further review and polishing. Tech is changing far faster than government can deal with it. Letting interested individuals play with it at the field level will shave years and millions off of R&D projects. There are pitfalls and a certain level of failures should be encouraged.
I have about three decades worth of experience, out of four in uniform in total, of "consultants" and experts  - and not just sigs "consultants" and experts - "advising" us based upon their superior knowledge of our requirements and then throwing out every obstacle to satisfying real needs imaginable.

Operators tend to understand their requirements much better than consultants, and are generally quite aware of the viable technological solutions to those requirements. They have, as some here have stated, even confirmed what works and what doesn't using their own kit.

As it should be. More good ideas have gone by the wayside simply because empire builders, who think they know best, refuse to get out of their stovepipes and listen to anyone else.

You miss a lot when you go through life with self installed blinders on.
Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) - a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.

Offline Jed

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2014, 17:05:10 »
I can only imagine the gnashing of teeth when my unit borrowed some moving trucks to conduct a weekend gunnery exercise and left the horses behind in the early 30's. You need to allow a certain amount of experimentation at the field level to try out new ideas and they can be submitted for further review and polishing. Tech is changing far faster than government can deal with it. Letting interested individuals play with it at the field level will shave years and millions off of R&D projects. There are pitfalls and a certain level of failures should be encouraged.

Great post. The greater ARMY collective will always stomp hard on those at the coal face doing their own cheap and effective R&D projects. This type of experimentation is necessary to move ahead productively.
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Offline Baz

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2014, 17:06:42 »
It is funny how there are a lot of support trades that think they know more about the operators requirements than the operators do...

Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2014, 17:35:48 »
Well like I said earlier, I am speaking from the OPs request to replace pubs/manuals on a range. The capabilities he wants have been stated so I know exactly what he wants. This is not a case of me knowing his requirements better than he does.

If I were to speak in a general sense as some of you are, then support trades would also be one of the primary operators of this equipment. Our requirement to read pubs in a convenient way are the same as everyone elses.

Offline Harris

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2014, 18:39:35 »
To answer the OPs original question. New technology is always being looked at, including tablets. From what I have heard though, there is a directive from the army forbidding any purchases of tablets. Can't quote or give a reference on that sorry. Its probably based on a number of issues such as finance and security.

If that is actually the case no one told 5 Div HQ and they received a handfull about a year ago to use from the "system".
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Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2014, 18:55:44 »
Apparently there's a pile of iPads at 2 ASG as well, locked up.

Offline GnyHwy

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #47 on: January 09, 2014, 20:47:38 »
Tablets are very easy to get, but at a $$$.  Long term maintenance and sustainment plans aren't cheap.  This is why I mention it as the solution for growth and if you intend on doing more than reading pdfs.  For ranges, pdfs will no doubt suffice.  Anyone who recommends hard copies needs to come to my world and deal with the dozens of pubs (all field relative) that are forever in revision.

E-readers come with essentially 0 risk.  They are dirt cheap, extremely low power budget, and can be treated just like a memory stick.

Hardware is now disposable.  No one mention field hardened ever again.  We can buy 20 COTS for the same price as a single "hardened" unit.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 23:35:35 by GnyHwy »
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #48 on: January 09, 2014, 20:53:12 »
Hardware is now disposable.  No one mention field hardened ever again.  We can buy 20 COTS for the same price as a single "hardened" unit.

Absolutely true. Look at the Toughbooks. $3-5K for a laptop that should cost $500.

I think the CF seriously needs to look at EReaders with some tough cases. Only security concerns are plugging into DWAN PCs (permission for digital cameras is there, not a big issue) and Controlled Goods. I would love to be able to carry every CF communications pub in a leg pocket to have access to whatever answer I need.

Future projects are already looking at connecting the soldier with small PDAs. Tablets will happen, its a matter of when and what capabilities we want.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 21:01:05 by PuckChaser »

Offline MOOXE

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Re: Tablets
« Reply #49 on: January 09, 2014, 21:00:33 »
Hardware is now disposable.

Deserves a new topic.