Author Topic: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page  (Read 74734 times)

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Offline muskrat89

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2014, 11:42:21 »
Regardless of the outcome, I'd like to see how sturdy these internet tough guys are, moving through the process. Maybe someone can post memes of them blatting in front of the Judge
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Offline ExRCDcpl

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2014, 11:50:10 »
The fact of the matter is if people don't want their pictures used in any manner, don't post them on Facebook.

As for buddy being arrested, I highly doubt he will learn much of a lesson.  His arrest probably consisted of nothing more than being told he's under arrest, searched, and then (since it appears they would have no grounds to hold the person) released on the spot after being told their CoC would receive the report recommending charges.

The elements of the offence for criminal harassment are not really met from the Facebook page alone so (unless there's a lot more to this) he's  probably looking at nothing more than a 129.

Everyone giving the page this much attention is actually worse than the page itself.  The guy wants/wanted attention...and he succeeded.

Offline wx_watcher

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2014, 12:02:14 »
The last news report I'd read, they'd not yet been charged.  If there's no follow though, the message will be "all bark but no bite -- have at 'er boys."

A bark is better then nothing. Would you rather it be ignored and nothing be done at all?
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Offline FJAG

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2014, 12:56:41 »
Yes, that's nice.

Belly up to the bar and pull your cash out.  Are you willing to bet on the outcome of these two arrests?

   :pop:

Sorry. No bet there yet. Over the years I've learned not to predict the eventual outcome of a case until I have a pretty good handle on the facts. Other than that I've seen the crappy web site once, I have no insight as to what the facts re these two individuals are. That might sound mealy-mouthed but in my mind a rush to judgement in either direction would just be presumptuous.

While I maintain that the military justice system is not broken, I do agree with much of what has been said above regarding discipline and leadership. I always thought that our attitude towards leadership went down the tubes in the early seventies at the time that the infamous recruiting add for officers came out showing a nattily dressed-in-greens officer stepped off the steps to a Boeing 707 carrying an attaché case.

From that point forward the officer corps (and to an unfortunate extent the senior NCO corps) started concerning themselves more with administration and management than with true leadership. Our policies became more civil service in nature and unfortunately much of our ethos followed suit.

As to our troops, I've always believed that they are reflective of the society that they come from. We're a cross section of that - the good and the bad. Unfortunately society in general has gotten meaner and less self-disciplined. Our high schools are filled with the unruly (just take a look at bullying there and their negative use of social media) and many of them have joined the CF where we no longer "indoctrinate" our people. What we mostly do is issue orders and directives on social behaviour and expect that they will be absorbed by osmosis.

We have a problem (not a general one but a large enough, and I think growing one to be of concern) with how some of our troops act out. Unfortunately our leadership (neither upper officer corps nor upper senior NCO corps) have the skill sets to handle many of these issues.

All that said, for those who believe that I yearn for the old pre-sixties army, all I can say is that I was there. IMHO, today's soldiers are better trained, better equipped and generally all around more capable of warfighting. Their numbers are down and therefore the force as a whole is less effective, but man-for-man and unit-for-unit they're a heck of a lot better today then in the "good old days".

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Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2014, 15:27:43 »
We have a problem (not a general one but a large enough, and I think growing one to be of concern) with how some of our troops act out. Unfortunately our leadership (neither upper officer corps nor upper senior NCO corps) have the skill sets to handle many of these issues.

Powerful words there FJAG. 

I sometimes wonder if our upper officer and NCO corps hasn't become too far removed from the people they are meant to lead. 

Kind of builds into your statement:

Quote
As to our troops, I've always believed that they are reflective of the society that they come from. We're a cross section of that - the good and the bad

Perhaps like the troops this too happens to our CoC and they become a reflection of the society they are built from.  If you ever want to know how disconnected some CEOs are from their organizations just watch those shows where they plant the CEO as a worker for a day or two. 

I dunno perhaps I'm reading too much into what your saying but I find it interesting.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 16:48:33 »
Two loosely connected points:

     An old chum, MGen (ret'd) Clive Addy (late of the RCAC), explained, some years ago, that we had a problem with what he called "macho thuggery." The CAF, he suggested, needs "tough guys" but the toughness needs to be both
     of a certain, cheerful type and well focused.

     Some tie later I adapted one of my own thoughts (from the 1970s) into a notion that said we might want to consider the business of soldiering by describing the attributes of a soldier. The "good soldier," I suggested, was six things:
     four of them had to be in a certain order and the other two could be "bookends."

My six things that a good soldier must be are:

     Well led;
          Tough;
          Superbly disciplined;
          Well trained;
          Adequately equipped
; and
     Properly organized.

The four attributes: tough, superbly disciplined, well trained and adequately equipped, I argued, needed to be in that specific order because toughness is an innate quality, we, the military, can hone and shape and focus it but we cannot teach it. But toughness, especially Clive Addy's "macho thuggery," is only useful to us when it is paired with discipline. I always used the term "superbly disciplined" because I remember it from a long lost magazine article about the change of command (control, actually) of the Canadian Army circa 1960; the article referred to "the small but superbly disciplined Canadian Army." I heard similar words again and again when I was under training in the UK and the US. Those countries may have thought that we could have done "more" in terms of numbers of soldiers, tanks, guns, etc but they were certain that we were the "best," the ne plus ultra in the quality business. And their definition of quality was, essentially: discipline. Training is, I hope, obvious, but the other qualitative attribute upon which foreign officers always  commented was the high standards to which we were trained. Another thing I saw, in my own service, was that good equipment helps, but the best equipment in the world is less than useful if it isn't in the hands of tough, superbly disciplined, well trained soldiers. Again and again I saw Canadians, and others, produce the desired results with only barely adequate equipment while others, with more and better kit, failed.

The other two attributes deserve a word each:

     I have dealt with "properly organized" el;sewhere. There is no "right" answer but there are wrong ones and I believe we are less than adequately organized now.

     "Well led" means, in my mind, that the leaders are tougher, even better disciplined and even better trained than their subordinates and they, the leaders are 'equipped' with the right administrative tools to help the soldiers do their very best.

My  :2c:

Too bad we seem to promote the 'Warrior' ethos these days, which has a negative influence on the way our troops behave in public, and elsewhere, as well as perceive themselves. The differences between a 'Warrior' and a 'Soldier' are vast, and it's important to maintain a focus on the latter and get eliminate efforts to extoll the virtues of the former viz:


Soldiers and Warriors

I am a Seventh Cavalry officer. I commanded in that most famous of American units, and my regimental affiliation and affections will always be with the men who wear the upturned horseshoe crest of that regiment. As a historian, and as perhaps the de facto regimental historian (since there is no such thing as a de jure position for this function), I am also very well acquainted with our legacy. The Seventh Cavalry was created to man the outposts of the frontiers in the wake of the Civil War, and to fight against the warrior cultures of the Native American tribes as need be. But in doing so they were not then, and are not now, warriors themselves. The men of the 7th Cavalry were and are soldiers. There is a significant difference between the two.
 
Unfortunately, and I cannot nail down when this started, a trend started to take hold in the Army and the Marine Corps which blurred that distinction. Sometime in the mid-90s we started to hear senior officers (defined in my head as "Colonels and Up") calling us "warriors."

At first the appellation was rare enough. Now and then you might hear it creep into a speech at a Change of Command ceremony, or perhaps at a Dining In (a formal dinner for the officers of a battalion or brigade). But slowly the term began to come into more common usage, even as it leaked into print in professional journals and in speeches coming from Air Force officers. This is a bad sign, and it does not seems to be stopping. I wish it would, because calling us warriors is not only inaccurate, it displays an ignorance about what a warrior is all about. The bottom line is that a real "warrior" is really just about himself.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/inteldump/2008/09/soldiers_and_warriors.html


Soldiers As "Warriors"? A Myth That Doesn't Translate to Reality

written by Arthur Varanelli
on January 27, 2010


It strikes me that more and more these days, the military's leadership seems to want to convince soldiers that they are "warriors," people who are distinct from the rest of society by virtue of their courage and aggressiveness. The goal is to make the soldier more effective at killing the enemy by stoking the psychological fires of combat. But promoting this kind of ideology, along with the amazing technology available to the military today, creates a sort of mythical and futuristic landscape that is more pop fiction than real life. And unfortuntely, encouraging the Warrior concept among soldiers can only exacerbate the gap between soldiers and society.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/regardingwar/conversations/coming-home/soldiers-as-warriors-a-myth-that-doesnt-translate-to-reality.php

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline AirDet

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2014, 17:06:50 »
forget that he's combat arms, infantry etc etc.  The only explanation is that he is an idiot.

 :goodpost:
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2014, 17:49:10 »
Too bad we seem to promote the 'Warrior' ethos these days, which has a negative influence on the way our troops behave in public, and elsewhere, as well as perceive themselves. The differences between a 'Warrior' and a 'Soldier' are vast, and it's important to maintain a focus on the latter and get eliminate efforts to extoll the virtues of the former viz:


Soldiers and Warriors

I am a Seventh Cavalry officer. I commanded in that most famous of American units, and my regimental affiliation and affections will always be with the men who wear the upturned horseshoe crest of that regiment. As a historian, and as perhaps the de facto regimental historian (since there is no such thing as a de jure position for this function), I am also very well acquainted with our legacy. The Seventh Cavalry was created to man the outposts of the frontiers in the wake of the Civil War, and to fight against the warrior cultures of the Native American tribes as need be. But in doing so they were not then, and are not now, warriors themselves. The men of the 7th Cavalry were and are soldiers. There is a significant difference between the two.
 
Unfortunately, and I cannot nail down when this started, a trend started to take hold in the Army and the Marine Corps which blurred that distinction. Sometime in the mid-90s we started to hear senior officers (defined in my head as "Colonels and Up") calling us "warriors."

At first the appellation was rare enough. Now and then you might hear it creep into a speech at a Change of Command ceremony, or perhaps at a Dining In (a formal dinner for the officers of a battalion or brigade). But slowly the term began to come into more common usage, even as it leaked into print in professional journals and in speeches coming from Air Force officers. This is a bad sign, and it does not seems to be stopping. I wish it would, because calling us warriors is not only inaccurate, it displays an ignorance about what a warrior is all about. The bottom line is that a real "warrior" is really just about himself.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/inteldump/2008/09/soldiers_and_warriors.html


Soldiers As "Warriors"? A Myth That Doesn't Translate to Reality

written by Arthur Varanelli
on January 27, 2010


It strikes me that more and more these days, the military's leadership seems to want to convince soldiers that they are "warriors," people who are distinct from the rest of society by virtue of their courage and aggressiveness. The goal is to make the soldier more effective at killing the enemy by stoking the psychological fires of combat. But promoting this kind of ideology, along with the amazing technology available to the military today, creates a sort of mythical and futuristic landscape that is more pop fiction than real life. And unfortuntely, encouraging the Warrior concept among soldiers can only exacerbate the gap between soldiers and society.

http://www.pbs.org/pov/regardingwar/conversations/coming-home/soldiers-as-warriors-a-myth-that-doesnt-translate-to-reality.php

I remember that topic in my Ethics OPME.  I guess I actually learned something  ;)
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 17:51:02 »
There were just as many CS, CSS, CIC and retired members acting like assholes right along side combat arms types.
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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 18:11:47 »
The fact of the matter is if people don't want their pictures used in any manner, don't post them on Facebook.

As for buddy being arrested, I highly doubt he will learn much of a lesson.  His arrest probably consisted of nothing more than being told he's under arrest, searched, and then (since it appears they would have no grounds to hold the person) released on the spot after being told their CoC would receive the report recommending charges.

The elements of the offence for criminal harassment are not really met from the Facebook page alone so (unless there's a lot more to this) he's  probably looking at nothing more than a 129.

Everyone giving the page this much attention is actually worse than the page itself.  The guy wants/wanted attention...and he succeeded.

There's been some defamation occurring on that site.  For example, when a female asked for something to be removed they searched her out and posted about her being a female Captain with words to the effect of "Fk off Captain C^&(*" in their response to her request.  Given the commentary they have on their site accompanying the print screen of my post, they seem to like utilizing the C-word to describe us serving females (or any female).  100% not acceptable conduct - 24/7.

Defamation is  a service offence under the NDA. I have also seen that utilized while deployed due to a facebook post someone made.  I, personally, have also been involved in 129s for sexual harassment under the NDA where a member (deployed) was afforded and elected CM (because someone told the member "they'd never CM someone for 129s for harassment").  He was wrong.  He was CMd - & pleaded guilty.

That site is not just about LGBT bashing --- they target anyone. Cadets, CIC, underage females, anyone.  Although the CCC may not be able to do much, the CF is held to a higher standard than the average population of Canada (because we need to remain a disciplined force) for just reasons and therefore the NDA and CSD come into play.




Edited to add:  Their crackbook page has probably been taken down - yet again - due to it being reported again ... I certainly reported it again and do so each time I see it re-appear.  Despite that, they've now branched out to another domain (that I will not post), but am also tracking for updates/printscreens.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 18:21:10 by ArmyVern »
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Offline ExRCDcpl

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 18:34:23 »
There's been some defamation occurring on that site.  For example, when a female asked for something to be removed they searched her out and posted about her being a female Captain with words to the effect of "Fk off Captain C^&(*" in their response to her request.  Given the commentary they have on their site accompanying the print screen of my post, they seem to like utilizing the C-word to describe us serving females (or any female).  100% not acceptable conduct - 24/7.

Defamation is  a service offence under the NDA. I have also seen that utilized while deployed due to a facebook post someone made.  I, personally, have also been involved in 129s for sexual harassment under the NDA where a member (deployed) was afforded and elected CM (because someone told the member "they'd never CM someone for 129s for harassment").  He was wrong.  He was CMd - & pleaded guilty.

That site is not just about LGBT bashing --- they target anyone. Cadets, CIC, underage females, anyone.  Although the CCC may not be able to do much, the CF is held to a higher standard than the average population of Canada (because we need to remain a disciplined force) for just reasons and therefore the NDA and CSD come into play.




Edited to add:  Their crackbook page has probably been taken down - yet again - due to it being reported again ... I certainly reported it again and do so each time I see it re-appear.  Despite that, they've now branched out to another domain (that I will not post), but am also tracking for updates/printscreens.

Agree with you 100% that the conduct falls under 129.  The point I was making is that outside of the CSD/NDA the page, or anything on it, isn't illegal.

He will be charged, whether he goes summary or CM is up to him, but as you well know there are legal precedents in place for just how serious the punishment can be.  While I agree he probably be found guilty (if he elects summary), I don't think the punishment is going to be as great as people seem to think he's going to receive.

Just my .002
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 18:39:50 by RCDcpl »

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 18:45:56 »
Agree with you 100% that the conduct falls under 129.  The point I was making is that outside of the CSD/NDA the page, or anything on it, isn't illegal.

He will be charged, whether he goes summary or CM is up to him, but as you well know there are legal precedents in place for just how serious the punishment can be.  While I agree he probably be found guilty (if he elects summary), I don't think the punishment is going to be as great as people seem to think he's going to receive.

Just my .002

You neglect that Admin actions can also be taken ... and they can be quite serious.

Election or not would depend upon what charges actually end up being laid and is not, necessarily, at the member's choice.  If they are laid, that will be because there is a preponderance of "evidence" supporting the charge. The Summary Trial or Court Martial process would then occur and findings would remain to be seen as would any punishment pending that outcome.

The CF has come a long way since the days when we "marched the guilty ******* in". And, there's not anything wrong with that.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 18:48:28 by ArmyVern »
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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2014, 18:50:05 »
Unless they boot him on some charge and then the RCMP take over and charge him with something else civie side.

And as much as I hate Human Rights and their tribunals, it would be fitting to see someone lay a complaint there also. Especially with a female adjudicator.

Don't forget, the person laying the complaint doesn't have to pay a cent. However, he will, and big time, if he has to defend himself in civie court or\ and HA tribunal. Even more so if found guilty, but even a tossed case is going to cost him big legal fees.

I think that social ostracizing and financial destitution would be fitting. If he had to scrape out a living the rest of his life, maybe he'd be too busy to waste time at his computer.

If he can afford one.
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Offline DAA

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2014, 18:56:21 »
Agree with you 100% that the conduct falls under 129.  The point I was making is that outside of the CSD/NDA the page, or anything on it, isn't illegal.

He will be charged, whether he goes summary or CM is up to him, but as you well know there are legal precedents in place for just how serious the punishment can be.  While I agree he probably be found guilty (if he elects summary), I don't think the punishment is going to be as great as people seem to think he's going to receive.

Just my .002

It's entirely possible.  But the problem is proving they were responsible for it.  Cyberspace and the Internet is virtual in nature.  There is nothing to stop anyone from creating a FB account using your name and then posting comments.  So, hypothetically, these people could sit back and say "Nope, wasn't me!" or my favourite "I decline to answer that question based on advice provided by legal counsel".  The onus is now on the CF to obtain sufficient evidence to prove otherwise.  Which, I can only assume would involve acquiring "internet account logs/access, etc" information from not just commercial "ISP service providers" but also from "Facebook" themselves.

On the internet, you can be whomever you want to be.  Unless of course you draw the attention of special interest groups like "Anonymous".
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 19:06:24 by DAA »
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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2014, 18:59:20 »
... "Anonymous".

Who could really "out" these pers instantaneously.   :)


Steubenville anyone?
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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2014, 19:22:28 »
At the end of the day and if you really think about it........

The average Canadian doesn't connect with the term "Cpl Bloggins" but NOW they do.  So because of the popularity in the news, they will now seek this out and should it still be available, in some way shape or form, some may very well participate.  The audience just got bigger!

I don't in anyway support what that FB page was doing but the few times that I did scoped it, purely through curiousity, I couldn't help but think to myself and picture making a "slapping" motion and asking someone "Come here, come over here and walk into this."

It's sad that things like this happen and I feel for those affected.  Now bring on the executioner...........
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Offline MeatheadMick

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2014, 19:25:45 »
Who could really "out" these pers instantaneously.   :)


Steubenville anyone?

To be fair though, the "Anonymous" hive mindset is very much in tune with Cpl Bloggins. They would be more likely to help Bloggins, than they would be to help the CF.
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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2014, 19:39:31 »
At the end of the day and if you really think about it........

The average Canadian doesn't connect with the term "Cpl Bloggins" but NOW they do.  So because of the popularity in the news, they will now seek this out and should it still be available, in some way shape or form, some may very well participate.  The audience just got bigger!

I don't in anyway support what that FB page was doing but the few times that I did scoped it, purely through curiousity, I couldn't help but think to myself and picture making a "slapping" motion and asking someone "Come here, come over here and walk into this."

It's sad that things like this happen and I feel for those affected.  Now bring on the executioner...........

I feel it's important to note that one doesn't need to be serving or be familiar with 'Cpl Bloggins' in order to find the page (or specific aspects of it) extremely offensive.

When the topic first started here, I loosely paid attention for a little while, but then eventually went to check it out. I was not amused.

I took particular offense to the C word and reported it. (I believe this was about a week ago.) I wasn't satisfied with the options that Facebook provided for the reasons why I wanted to report the page/subject matter in the first place; therefore, I chose the one that best applied. Unfortunately, within 24hrs. Facebook responded informing me that there wasn't suitable cause for them to remove the page, but I'm happy things have obviously escalated and complaints are being taken more seriously. (I have since investigated ways to report the content to their new venue source as well.)

Perhaps more traffic is being drawn to the page, but that also means that perhaps more people are placing complaints and voicing that the behaviour/actions displayed by the mind(s) behind this ridiculous page are inexcusable.
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Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2014, 19:45:06 »
Unless they boot him on some charge and then the RCMP take over and charge him with something else civie side.


Why assume he needs to be handed over to the RCMP?  If there are grounds for civilian charges the garrison MPs can lay them or if the CFNIS is involved they can lay them as well.  No need to involve the RCMP unless its a jurisdictional issue and the fact the accused are CF members makes it MP/CFNIS jurisdiction.

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 19:47:39 »
It's entirely possible.  But the problem is proving they were responsible for it.  Cyberspace and the Internet is virtual in nature.  There is nothing to stop anyone from creating a FB account using your name and then posting comments.  So, hypothetically, these people could sit back and say "Nope, wasn't me!" or my favourite "I decline to answer that question based on advice provided by legal counsel".  The onus is now on the CF to obtain sufficient evidence to prove otherwise.  Which, I can only assume would involve acquiring "internet account logs/access, etc" information from not just commercial "ISP service providers" but also from "Facebook" themselves.

On the internet, you can be whomever you want to be.  Unless of course you draw the attention of special interest groups like "Anonymous".

It was reported that the Justice Department worked with Facebook US to action the required warrants to get the access records.  Combine that with the analysis of the computers seized from the residence(s) and there is no way they could say "Nope, it wasn't me" if it really was. 

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2014, 20:04:50 »
In a lovely display of irony some members of the bloggins gang seem upset that the news isn't covering the alleged threats, posting on funeral pages by someone "pretending" to be "bloggins" (which in itself is ironic), impersonating SNCOs and Officers and making fake accounts by someone they initially were making fun of.

They're upset at, get this, at being harassed  :'(  Someone suggested that the woman involved with the homophobia and individual harassment "brought it on herself". What an awesome mind set. 

I'm sure any CF member involved with this will get a 129 slap on the wrist and sent on their way without some serious career speed-wobbling  :nod:
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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2014, 20:07:14 »
I think I was invited to the page by a buddy in the Combat Arms about 3 weeks ago...the first photo I saw was genuinely funny.  I think I 'liked' that photo, and maybe commented on it...then I started advancing through the photos, saw the comments, and oh..my...it was time to leave.   

I went back once more and was, well, dismayed. 

The vitriolic hatred that exuded from some of the posts was disturbing. 

I'm honestly hoping that some suitable punishment will come from this, but know first-hand that the wheels of justice turn slowly at times.

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Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2014, 20:11:04 »
In a lovely display of irony some members of the bloggins gang seem upset that the news isn't covering the alleged threats, posting on funeral pages by someone "pretending" to be "bloggins" (which in itself is ironic), impersonating SNCOs and Officers and making fake accounts by someone they initially were making fun of.

They're upset at, get this, at being harassed  :'(  Someone suggested that the woman involved with the homophobia and individual harassment "brought it on herself". What an awesome mind set. 

I'm sure any CF member involved with this will get a 129 slap on the wrist and sent on their way without some serious career speed-wobbling  :nod:

I believe, if one actually checked, the other page that went up was called "Master Corporal Bloggins" *thus out-ranking him  ;), not posing as him ... and had some posts about "anti-bullying, stand up to bullies" etc.  I viewed it once and it resembled nothing as crass and hateful such as the "Corporal Bloggins" page did.

Now, Corporal Bloggins himself created untold numbers of "Corporal Bloggins" pages ...  have a print screen to the links for all of them --- as he posted them "in case this one goes down again".   ::)


Oh, and I know of at least one pers that Corporal Bloggins claimed that was an imposter posing as an officer ... who actually was is the Officer who posted asking for a removal of some content and an end to the harassment.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 20:16:00 by ArmyVern »
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Offline ExRCDcpl

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2014, 20:17:24 »
It's entirely possible.  But the problem is proving they were responsible for it.  Cyberspace and the Internet is virtual in nature.  There is nothing to stop anyone from creating a FB account using your name and then posting comments.  So, hypothetically, these people could sit back and say "Nope, wasn't me!" or my favourite "I decline to answer that question based on advice provided by legal counsel".  The onus is now on the CF to obtain sufficient evidence to prove otherwise.  Which, I can only assume would involve acquiring "internet account logs/access, etc" information from not just commercial "ISP service providers" but also from "Facebook" themselves.

On the internet, you can be whomever you want to be.  Unless of course you draw the attention of special interest groups like "Anonymous".

This is why I stated he would be charged and probably convicted if it goes the way of Summary (yes I know the days of "march the guilty in" are gone....but let's be real here).  If he gets the opportunity to elect CM (which I assume he would as I'm sure it will be more than 1 count of 129) then it's a whole new ballgame.  Defence will work the angle that of regardless of ISP etc. it cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was in fact the person sitting at the computer making the page etc etc.  Although I have left the RCD's and am now currently a police officer, I will admit my tech savvy is next to nothing and I am definitely not (nor do I ever expect to be) a member of the tech crimes unit.  Perhaps there are ways those guys have of determining who physically made the page, but from what I've been told, tech stuff is quite hard to prove in court.

If he is aquitted, found not guilty or whatnot, then any administrative action taken by the CF can, and should be grieved by him as it would be baseless at that point.

I'm not defending the guy, but as I stated, nothing he did is illegal outside of the CF.  The C word is offensive to some people, but that doesn't make it against the law nor does making fun of someone because of their weight, sexual orientation, gender etc etc.  There might be ground for civil cases.....but that's a whole other ballgame and I'm not very familiar with that side of the justice system.

Keep in mind, everything I've stated is going off of what I've read at face value....there very well could be more to this than has been released.  I'm curious to see how all of this is going to play out.

Offline ArmyVern

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Re: Two CF members arrested in Petawawa over Cpl Bloggins Facebook page
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2014, 20:26:21 »
This is why I stated he would be charged and probably convicted if it goes the way of Summary (yes I know the days of "march the guilty in" are gone....but let's be real here). ...

At the last ST that I attended, 3 charges were on the table. Dude walked in and pleaded guilty to the 3. When the Presiding Officer heard the statement of facts read to him, the MP report, and statements, he called for a phone interview with the MPs and it resulted in the PO finding him not guilty on 1 of the counts --- after the troop had pleaded guilty.

Times have changed. For real.
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