Author Topic: Systema vs Krav Magna  (Read 12068 times)

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Offline crunchy

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Systema vs Krav Magna
« on: June 29, 2014, 21:33:56 »
As background, I am late thirties in a non combat arms trade.  I have no martial arts training, but decent cardio and strength.  My objective is to improve my ability to hold my own in a fight.  I have no illusions about becoming some sort of Ninja.  I've been looking at taking lessons in either of the subject disciplines.  I'm just curious what others on the board would recommend.  I've asked around the unit, but nobody there has any martial arts experience.

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 21:56:13 »
It depends is the best answer. What's offered where you live? What's your baseline fitness level? How "sporty" are you? How coordinated are you?

I've done boxing, karate and tae kwon do. Of the three, I enjoyed TKD the most. Probably because of the school I was in as much as anything else.

Without sounding too zen, the best way to win a fight is to not be in one.
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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 23:15:26 »
Is there a Close Quarter Combat basic course running on your base? Request to be course loaded. 7 training days will expose you to multiple fighting styles, with some specifics unique to military hand to hand fighting. Be a great way to see if you like grappling, or striking or both. Best part is: They pay you to be there.

Offline 2112

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2014, 18:46:21 »
I've been in MA for most of my life, started with TKD and then kickboxing. Eventually I landed in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts. If you don't want to get into the whole MMA thing, I believe BJJ is about as good as it gets in Martial Arts. The techniques are realistic and can be trained at 100% resistance, which is missing from almost all other forms of Martial Arts.

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2014, 19:14:29 »
If you're doing armbars at 100% effort you're going to run out of training partners really quickly....

Offline 2112

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2014, 22:34:48 »
Not what I mean, try it, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Offline divefool

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2014, 14:07:42 »
I started Krav Maga 3 months ago and am really enjoying it.  It is a great workout -- a solid hour of sweating and panting -- and the self defense and combative strikes are pretty straight forward and quick to learn.  I would recommend Krav Maga to anyone.

Offline theforcewithin

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2014, 15:21:13 »
Been doing Boxing and MMA for a year now, and the training is pretty damn fun.

Agreed with Ron2112 about BJJ. You'll learn some great techniques.

MMA is great. Learning a mix of different disciplines and being a well-rounded fighter would be useful.

Boxing is just plain fun.

divefool, I gotta look into Krav Maga. There seems to be a few schools in Toronto.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 15:31:29 by theforcewithin »
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Offline NinerSix

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2014, 19:08:55 »
My personal experience with Defendo (Hapkido) and seeing people try and do some ninja stuff when real pressure is applied leads me to the following conclusion: You can become effective using one of many different martial art, if you put a lot of time and effort into it. In GENERAL going to your local dojo can be fun, challenging and you might learn a few moves, but the real life use don't pan out the way the tactical paddy cake plays out on the mat.

What I have seen are people doing BJJ and/or MMA training do much better responding to real pressure.

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of the Shiworks training, having taken ECQC twice and EWO once and having had to apply the lessons in real time once. Mind you I am far from a hand to hand guru, YMMV. But yeah, if you can find an EWO course close to your location, it will be the best bang for your buck, IMHO.

And while I don't think Krav Maga is all that bad, I like to point out this video to people who come to me gushing about the whole thing. The Youtube vid shows the IDF doing the assault on the Gaza blockade running ship. This was supposed to be an assault by Isreali Commandos, highly trained troops trying to use less than lethal tactics/moves. Somehow I don't see a whole lot of Ninja crap going on/working out in the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLrX7fznVgI
« Last Edit: August 16, 2014, 00:16:42 by NinerSix »
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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2014, 11:37:46 »
My oldest is taking TKD and the youngest is taking Karate. when they get into their late teens I am hoping to find a more self defense MA to polish up their street defense skills. Since my Wife is Malay, even considering Si-lat, although Kra Magna is available here. It will be my job to teach them how to avoid having to use their skills.

Offline Ducimus BTC

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2014, 12:42:46 »
Not sure if you are still researching or not but perhaps someone else has a similar interest in the original question. I have a couple years experience in Krav Maga, it is a great workout and I find it is very realistic when adapting it to "real world" scenarios. It is great for self defence and weapons defence.

Offline NinerSix

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2014, 12:19:35 »
How many fights have you been in?
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Offline Ducimus BTC

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2014, 14:37:55 »
How many fights have you been in?

I don't see how this question relates to the OP

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2014, 16:26:14 »
I don't see how this question relates to the OP

I think it relates to this:

I find it is very realistic when adapting it to "real world" scenarios.

You replied to a thread where the OP hasn't been active since he posted the question.  Don't be surprised if people respond to your post, and not the OP's (which he clearly didn't care about replies to....or he forgot he was even here). 
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Offline ballz

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2014, 17:10:03 »
For anyone considering martial arts, I would offer this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwIKu3T09oo

Basically, if you want to be able to use something in a real scenario, you must be able to practice it against a partner who is not only resisting, but actively trying to turn the tables on you, in other words, simulate a real world scenario as much as possible. It should be no surprise that arts such as muay thai, boxing, jiu jitsu, and wresting are far and away the most prominent in Vale Tudo and MMA (as close as we can get to a "no rules, no limits" fight in the Western world). To a smaller extent, you will see people be successful using more traditional styles (read: hard, old-school styles as they were practised in their original form) of karate and TKD. Look at the way they train.

What you will not find in an MMA fight is someone who is very successful using hocus pocus stuff like "westernized" karate and TKD (read: soft, degraded, and barely recognizable to what they originally were), aikido, krav maga, etc etc etc, where there is either no sparring, or sparring is extremely restricted by rules / times / etc (point-sparring, so to speak, where the goal is to touch your opponent as opposed to actually hurting him).

My personal opinion on the matter of self-defence is that those who learn a martial art will be much more confident in themselves and will for the most part not find themselves in bad situations. Every bad situation I've ever been in, I can look back on and realize I could have easily not been in it. Those with true confidence in themselves rarely find themselves there, and that is the biggest value of martial arts, the other 2% of the value is that if they do find themselves there, they will most likely live to fight another day.

If you're doing armbars at 100% effort you're going to run out of training partners really quickly....

Other than when I am rolling with new guys, I have to put 100% focus/effort into catching a submission, and no one gets hurt because they know when to tap out. If it's a new guy, I don't put 100% into it but since he's untrained I don't need to anyway.

Is there a Close Quarter Combat basic course running on your base? Request to be course loaded. 7 training days will expose you to multiple fighting styles, with some specifics unique to military hand to hand fighting. Be a great way to see if you like grappling, or striking or both. Best part is: They pay you to be there.

I get your point, and yes it's probably a good way to try it out, but I have to use this point to go off on a tangent about how poorly the army is doing with its hand-to-hand curriculum and the non-existent training afterwards that is necessary to ever become proficient in using those kinds of skills.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2014, 17:17:09 by ballz »
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Offline Ducimus BTC

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2014, 17:39:56 »
I think it relates to this:

You replied to a thread where the OP hasn't been active since he posted the question.  Don't be surprised if people respond to your post, and not the OP's (which he clearly didn't care about replies to....or he forgot he was even here).

Thank you, I am aware I posted in a thread that was a bit older. Hence my explanation:
Quote
Not sure if you are still researching or not but perhaps someone else has a similar interest in the original question.

I also posted in this thread because I share a similar interest on the subject of this thread, please stay on topic. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject of how many fights people have been in.

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2014, 17:53:32 »
Hey, I have no interest in this thread whatsoever.  I was just pointing out that the question was for you, not the OP.

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Offline Ducimus BTC

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2014, 17:58:44 »
My personal opinion on the matter of self-defence is that those who learn a martial art will be much more confident in themselves and will for the most part not find themselves in bad situations. Every bad situation I've ever been in, I can look back on and realize I could have easily not been in it. Those with true confidence in themselves rarely find themselves there, and that is the biggest value of martial arts, the other 2% of the value is that if they do find themselves there, they will most likely live to fight another day.

I agree, I have also found that self defense training like Krav Maga also stresses techniques on how to avoid fighting first. I can't speak to other martial arts but I can imagine that they would teach the same values.

Other than when I am rolling with new guys, I have to put 100% focus/effort into catching a submission, and no one gets hurt because they know when to tap out. If it's a new guy, I don't put 100% into it but since he's untrained I don't need to anyway.

"Train as you would fight" as they say. If you don't put in that 100% then how are you conditioned to do so in a real life scenario.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Systema vs Krav Magna
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2014, 19:16:34 »
In the words of the great Frank Shamrock, "the quickest way to end a fight is with your fists"... with this in mind, if you are going to be involved in any sort of street fight confrontation/scenario you need to be able to give/take punches.  A guy with some boxing training and the athleticism that comes with it will be able to hold his own against 90% of the people he would ever possibly encounter.

As for using MMA/Vale Tudo techniques in a street fight, going to the ground in any sort of street fight/confrontation is a very bad idea, your aim should be to create distance between yourself and your opponent not get closer to him, you become vulnerable to getting beat down and stomped by others and you invite yourself as a nice target for getting attacked with a weapon i.e. a knife.

Even professional fighters can get messed up in a brawl....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGbh7xJIrio

Two pro fighters got their *** kicked in Brazil, after assaulting a woman.  I'm sure the thought, "what are you going to do about it?" crossed their minds as the started the brawl, it ended with them being brutally beaten with baseball bats and one of them ending up in a coma.