Author Topic: Civilian Police to Military Police  (Read 36865 times)

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Offline LifeChanges

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Civilian Police to Military Police
« on: September 08, 2014, 00:19:35 »
I've been a police officer for six years.  While I love working in the law enforcement sector, I've started considering the possibility of applying to be an MP.  Would the army recognize my previous training?  Would I still have to take Basic Occupation Training in addition to Basic Training?  And, honestly, at 33 years old, is this a good option? 

Thanks

Offline Sheep Dog AT

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2014, 00:42:29 »
Who are you currently with?
Apparently infamous for his one liners.
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Offline NinerSix

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 00:49:14 »
I'm not sure if the trade has the signing bonus for applicants with required experience or education. Best call your recruiting center for that one. That would be about the only consideration your existing status might get you.

You will have to do the entire 6 month MP QL3 course.

Is this good for you? That all depends. Second hand, I can tell you that MPs generally spend far less time on patrol before moving on to specialty sections than all the municipal police forces I know. Older people have made it through just fine.

The process is not the mission.

Offline PMedMoe

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2014, 07:21:48 »
I'm not sure if the trade has the signing bonus for applicants with required experience or education. Best call your recruiting center for that one. That would be about the only consideration your existing status might get you.

The OP could probably submit a PLAR, but a CANFORGEN came out in June stating there were no recruitment allowances for any trade.
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Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2014, 13:19:41 »
A PLAR should be requested by whatever RC you end up dealing with, that said, make sure you have your graduation certificate from whatever police college you went to (OPC, Depot, JIBC, etc) and any course outlines you may have (as well as courses/training you have done on the job).  FYI there are components of an MPs job that are not similar to a civilian officer (dealing with POWs for instance), as well as things like arrest authority on/off base.  Much has been discussed here, about many of the differences.  So with that in mind, be prepared for the fact, that even if you go through the PLAR process, depending on how training in Borden is structured, you may not get to bypass initial trades training.

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2014, 22:26:21 »
I've worked with ex civvie cops from Newfoundland, the OPP, 2 ex-Mounties and an ex Niagara Regional cop.  One was an MPO and the rest were Cpls on up.  All of them who did not already have the required community college diploma had to submit their civilian qualifications and experience in order to be considered for employment without the diploma but that wasnt much of an issue given their experience and courses.  All were still required to complete recruit school and their QL3 or MPO course along with everyone else thought so they learned our directives, policies, orders, standards and duties.   They also entered at the entry ranks but because of their experience they tended to raise through the ranks a bit quicker but it was an individual thing.  Other then thzt your age wont be an issue.  The ex Newfoundland cop was in his late 30s when he joined and he had no issues.

Offline rocksteady

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 12:02:18 »
Don't become an MP unless you want to be treated like a child, Period.

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2014, 18:26:57 »
Don't become an MP unless you want to be treated like a child, Period.

Looks like someone has issues.

Offline NinerSix

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2014, 18:38:59 »
Looks like someone has issues.

Gripes like those always make me question the individual before the situation.
The process is not the mission.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2014, 18:47:27 »
.....unless you want to be treated like a child.....
Like....naps?!  And....and....spankings?!!   WOOHOO!!   :nod:

Offline Shamrock

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2014, 21:02:07 »
And....and....spankings?!!   WOOHOO!!   :nod:

Receiving, not giving.  I live in slight fear you may have already known this.

I was going to add sandwiches without crusts and juice boxes, but then I realized... boxed lunches.

Offline rocksteady

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2015, 15:58:07 »
MPs do "Mickey Mouse" police work 95% of the time.  Your reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience.  A civilian police officer in a larger center will do more files and arrests in their first year of policing than an MP will do in their entire career.  That is fact.  MPs are glorified security guards that do minimal police work.

Just ask any MP who has spent some time in the trade that hasn't drank the Kool Aid...

jollyjacktar

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 16:25:09 »
That is not necessarily correct, rocksteady.  Most police work is esoteric at the best of times.  You don't always see the results of your work as you might in other career paths.  Granted the pace of things were different in my personal experience between Army, Air Force and Navy bases but such is life.  Of course it's not fair to expect the job to be like a large metropolitan department, your community you police is smaller and more like small town work.  If your comments are to be taken at face value, then by your standards if I understand you correctly, means that all small town type policing isn't worth jack when set aside big city policing.  That, is a "Mickey Mouse" attitude.

As for the professionalism of your supervisors...  I worked with many when I was in the trade who were just as good as those I saw on the civilian side before I joined the CF.  And there also were those on both sides who were less than stellar.  That goes for anywhere or any trade. 

And, no.  I didn't drink the Kool-Aid either, so you can get that thought out of your head too.


Offline mariomike

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2015, 16:51:52 »
A civilian police officer in a larger center will do more files and arrests in their first year of policing than an MP will do in their entire career.  That is fact. 

MP versus city police Call Volumes were discussed here. ( I believe the OP was referring to Regular Force MP's. )

Call Volume
http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=104516.0

"Just curious as to what would be the majority of calls an MP would receive, and what would they spend the most time on? Traffic? Assaults? Thefts etc. and does it vary from element to element i.e. army to navy to air force?
How many calls would you average in a shift?
Just a professional curiosity. In Toronto every division gets a little bit of everything, but the downtown divisions will get more drugs, edp's, homeless etc, and the burbs will get more domestics and b and e's.
Working in 52 Division you could answer 20 calls in a 10 hour shift but working in 33 Division you could answer 5-10.
Just looking for a little perspective."

Jim7966: "Judging by the event numbers issued for each call/arrest in Toronto we averaged 100,000.00 calls per month. That's city wide but only includes calls where a car was dispatched or an arrest made. It wouldn't include walk ins or things that were handled over the phone."



« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 16:57:58 by mariomike »

Offline putz

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2015, 03:56:03 »
MPs do "Mickey Mouse" police work 95% of the time.  Your reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience.  A civilian police officer in a larger center will do more files and arrests in their first year of policing than an MP will do in their entire career.  That is fact.  MPs are glorified security guards that do minimal police work.

Just ask any MP who has spent some time in the trade that hasn't drank the Kool Aid...

Maybe where you are posted

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2015, 14:05:44 »
MPs do "Mickey Mouse" police work 95% of the time.  Your reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience.  A civilian police officer in a larger center will do more files and arrests in their first year of policing than an MP will do in their entire career.  That is fact.  MPs are glorified security guards that do minimal police work.

Just ask any MP who has spent some time in the trade that hasn't drank the Kool Aid...

"reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience".  Really? 

I am one of those you speak of and I'd put my 11 years on the road plus 9 years of Invest/CFNIS experience up against yours any day.  Reports get reviewed and approved in order to ensure completeness and to ensure patrol MPs and investigators have thoroughly examined the matter and done their job in a thorough manner.

Comments like the ones you make show either your inexperience in the trade or your personal bias.  If you had a problem with a particular supervisor then keep your comments in context.  If you had problems with multiple supervisors then perhaps the problem was you. 

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2015, 18:43:16 »
"reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience".  Really? 

I am one of those you speak of and I'd put my 11 years on the road plus 9 years of Invest/CFNIS experience up against yours any day.  Reports get reviewed and approved in order to ensure completeness and to ensure patrol MPs and investigators have thoroughly examined the matter and done their job in a thorough manner.

Comments like the ones you make show either your inexperience in the trade or your personal bias.  If you had a problem with a particular supervisor then keep your comments in context.  If you had problems with multiple supervisors then perhaps the problem was you.

I've got no problems with MPs on the NCM side of the house, in fact, all of my experiences with the rank and file MPs from Cpl all the way to MWO have been very good.  The same can't be said for the MP Officer Corps.  I think it's one of the few trades where Officers should probably come exclusively from the ranks, the fact it doesn't work that way is scary.  Not to say I haven't met some good ones but the vast majority of experiences have been negative. 

Offline ExRCDcpl

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2015, 18:52:21 »
Speaking as a police officer......it absolutely boggles my mind that the MP higher ups have never actually been police officers, or done the job of a police officer.

Astonishing really.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2015, 19:06:27 »
Speaking as a police officer......it absolutely boggles my mind that the MP higher ups have never actually been police officers, or done the job of a police officer.

Astonishing really.

My point exactly, and from what I have seen, this has a direct impact on their ability, or lack thereof, to make good judgement calls a seasoned police officer would make.   :2c:

jollyjacktar

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2015, 19:41:30 »
I knew several who spent time in harness, they were the exception, however, not the rule. 

I do like the RCMP way of things, they all start out from Depot first and have time on the street before they commission.  It was one of the major peeves of mine that most of my officers who were making the policy decisions on how I did my work and with what equipment etc had a minimal concept of what my work was really like as far as I could see (many were washouts from other trades too boot).  About as much sense as me dictating on how they would do their jobs without any real knowledge or experience of it.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2015, 19:48:23 »
I am one of those you speak of and I'd put my 11 years on the road plus 9 years of Invest/CFNIS experience up against yours any day. 

So....how many polyester suits do you own?   :D

And I agree re:  MPOs should be drawn exclusively from the MP NCM trade. 
Philip II of Macedon to Spartans (346 BC):  "You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city."

Reply:  "If."

Offline Alberta Bound

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2015, 22:03:42 »
Rocksteady, every different type of policing has its ups and downs and you can't compare them. You simply have to find the policing that suits you.

All the cops I know that work in large city departments did high volume initial response for a number of years before they ever started actually carrying any reasonably important investigations. They couldn't release a person without a supervisors permission. Then they moved into whatever specialty but get little experience in files outside their area of responsibility.

I know people in small town policing who do the whole range of investigations. They carry their files from cradle to grave. But don't often see high volumes of stuff. Call volume is no measure of how busy or satisfying the police work is.

I know other people in major crimes who do nothing but track tasks, write up search warrants ( essentially take info and fill it in the blanks on a template) and do up spreadsheets and charts. Not very challenging in my mind.

I worked on a reserve of 950 people, 2500 prisoners per year, ( yes, theoretically every resident getting jailed more than 2.5 times per year), 8 members and we did everything from monitoring the Band election, to arresting drunks, to investigating everything in the criminal code.

Each of these can be satisfying depending on what you are looking for. Don't be bitter. Just find another form of policing you enjoy.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2015, 22:09:20 »
Plus as an MP you get to deploy on operations, be posted to an Embassy. That's pretty cool.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Alberta Bound

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2015, 23:02:06 »
It's what you make of it. 

Offline mariomike

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2015, 11:02:10 »
While I love working in the law enforcement sector, I've started considering the possibility of applying to be an MP. 

I was curious as to what the OP's decision was. But, there is not much to go by.

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 11:33:11 by mariomike »

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2015, 00:31:31 »
Speaking as a police officer......it absolutely boggles my mind that the MP higher ups have never actually been police officers, or done the job of a police officer.

Astonishing really.

On the one hand it shouldn't be much of an issue since they don't do much in the way of police work anyway.  They are mainly administrators and the badge is required for various legal and administrative reasons.  They do get more actual police training now on the MPOC then they did when I first started though.  Ideally they should be mature enough to take the advice and guidance of their senior NCOs and WOs and use it to make sound decisions but unfortunately many in the new officer corps, for all trades, seem to not have been taught that tactic and they feel they can just go it alone because they are the officer and the one in charge. 

Would it be better to have them come through the ranks?  Perhaps but I'm not convinced. The bigger issue that many seem to lose sight of is that as much as some of these ideas may be good, we are not a stand alone police department.  We are bound by the structural constrictions placed upon us by the CAF as a whole.  The rank structure, promotion system, posting requirements, recruiting system....are all things we have very little control over or input within.  While these all have an impact on how we are organized we still manage to make it work.

Offline putz

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2015, 19:28:41 »
Simplest away around this is you inclue a Co Ride program as part of the officer qualification. 6 months or so on the road.  Some experince is better then none at all.

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2015, 22:00:37 »
Simplest away around this is you inclue a Co Ride program as part of the officer qualification. 6 months or so on the road.  Some experince is better then none at all.

We already tried that a number of years back.  Each officer who graduated his/her MPOC would be sent to an NIS Det or guardhouse for 6 months before they took up their first posting.  It was eventually stopped for a number of reasons including, among others:
  • there not being enough busy guardhouses to put 30+ officers at a time;
  • those that ended up with a CFNIS Det often got exposed to various major cases but their ability to be involved was limited owing to their relatively brief stay and their inexperience;
  • the costs to the CAF to send those pers across the country on DT, post them and their families to their permanent posting and then, in many cases, bring them back to the training location for court from those cases they were involved with, was seen to be not worth any perceived training value.  Why not have them do their OJT at the base they are posted to?  It was determined to not be appropriate from a training perspective and if the base they were posted to had a low op tempo or was a HQ it would not provide the training value you speak of; and
  • just like with new Cpls, the officers were hired because there was a need for bodies and those guardhouses short on officers did not want to wait then additional 6 months or more for their warm body.
 

It may sound like a good idea, much like trying to mandate 3 range exes a year was, when you break it all down it just isn't practical or benificial. 

Offline Inspir

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2015, 02:54:18 »
Would a NCO only trade work for the MP Branch. The fire service seems to do it.

Online Blackadder1916

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2015, 13:58:11 »
Would a NCO only trade work for the MP Branch. The fire service seems to do it.

Well, the military firefighters are not a branch of their own, just a trade within a branch.  The officers who "command" them at the base level may not necessarily be firefighters and there may not be a need for them to be so.  In the few instances that the requirements of an "officer" position (like the CF Fire Marshall) needs someone with a firefighting background/certification it seems to be filled usually by CFRs.  The Military Police (like every other CF organization) needs to be overseen/commanded/managed/administered/screwed with by officers.  Some of it is just the normal way of bureaucracy, most of it is the law - that thing called the National Defence Act.  There are operationally valid and likely legal reasons why officers overseeing military policemen have to be sworn peace officers.
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Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2015, 15:47:19 »
Blackadder captured much of it and one other point I wanted to add is that MP Officers need to be badged MPs from not only a legal point of view but also from a liaison point of view. 

MP officers are called upon to make law enforcement decisions which impact policies, operations, charges, prosecutions and a whole host of other tasks that require the legal authorities inherent with the badge they carry.  They are also required to have access to police records that only can be accessed by badge carrying police officers, just ask any non-badged reserve MPO who has deployed or accepted a Class B or C tasking at a guardhouse and who couldn't access SAMPIS or CPIC.  They also liaise quite often with our civilian counterparts who will not pass over info to a non-police officer.

Offline rocksteady

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2015, 21:05:57 »
"reports are then scrutinized by people that had minimal time on the road and minimal real policing experience".  Really? 

I am one of those you speak of and I'd put my 11 years on the road plus 9 years of Invest/CFNIS experience up against yours any day.  Reports get reviewed and approved in order to ensure completeness and to ensure patrol MPs and investigators have thoroughly examined the matter and done their job in a thorough manner.

Comments like the ones you make show either your inexperience in the trade or your personal bias.  If you had a problem with a particular supervisor then keep your comments in context.  If you had problems with multiple supervisors then perhaps the problem was you.

No offense but 11 years of Mickey Mouse is exactly that.  Invest doesn't get anywhere close to the files that police detectives do.  CFNIS does have its merits but even then a basic level detective is doing bigger and more.  Those are the truths.  I have seen many chain of command and I have yet to be impressed from a policing stand point by any of them.  That is my opinion formed from my experience and observations.  The trade is a joke from a policing standpoint, Period.  MPs should not be doing police work.  They should only be doing security on a military base.  Leave the police work to people that know what they are doing.

The MP trade has one of the lowest standards entry standards I have ever seen for a police service.  It is by far the easiest to get into.  That's why people jump ship as soon as they get a bit of experience.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2015, 21:44:30 »
No offense but 11 years of Mickey Mouse is exactly that.  Invest doesn't get anywhere close to the files that police detectives do.  CFNIS does have its merits but even then a basic level detective is doing bigger and more.  Those are the truths.  I have seen many chain of command and I have yet to be impressed from a policing stand point by any of them.  That is my opinion formed from my experience and observations.  The trade is a joke from a policing standpoint, Period.  MPs should not be doing police work.  They should only be doing security on a military base.  Leave the police work to people that know what they are doing.

The MP trade has one of the lowest standards entry standards I have ever seen for a police service.  It is by far the easiest to get into.  That's why people jump ship as soon as they get a bit of experience.

I'm finding your claims hard to believe.

I've met more idiot civil police officers than I have idiot MPs. Sure you can argue that having a college diploma doesn't make you smart, but it does give you a higher quality candidate pool. The RCMP and most municipal police services have no requirement for post-secondary education; only that you have a high school diploma and are of "good character." Their screening and weeding process is much more robust and lengthy, but that doesn't change the fact those organizations also have police officers that just can't do police work or investigations and end up riding a desk for the rest of their career.

Calgary and Edmonton Police Services have taken on many MPs over the years; in Calgary the last graduating class had 4 MPs 2 from Patrol, 1 from NCIU, and 1 from NIS. There's 46 years service between the 4 of them, the one from NCIU was the top recruit in class. He's now with Major Crimes and has been commended by the Chief on his investigative abilities.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

jollyjacktar

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2015, 21:54:41 »
No offense but 11 years of Mickey Mouse is exactly that.  Invest doesn't get anywhere close to the files that police detectives do.  CFNIS does have its merits but even then a basic level detective is doing bigger and more.  Those are the truths.  I have seen many chain of command and I have yet to be impressed from a policing stand point by any of them.  That is my opinion formed from my experience and observations.  The trade is a joke from a policing standpoint, Period.  MPs should not be doing police work.  They should only be doing security on a military base.  Leave the police work to people that know what they are doing.

The MP trade has one of the lowest standards entry standards I have ever seen for a police service.  It is by far the easiest to get into.  That's why people jump ship as soon as they get a bit of experience.

If it's such a joke and sickens you, then GTFO.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head to stay, and frankly with that outlook the trade would be better off being 200 lbs lighter.

Offline garb811

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2015, 23:41:48 »
The MP trade has one of the lowest standards entry standards I have ever seen for a police service.  It is by far the easiest to get into.  That's why people jump ship as soon as they get a bit of experience.
Lol, most awesome statement ever.  You got in, you're still here, almost 7 years to this point.  You have a "bit of experience", a police foundations diploma, a Bachelor's degree, police recruiters should be drooling all over themselves if you walk in the door, but you haven't been able to get picked up by a "real" police service.  What does your statement say about yourself?

What does your posting history on this website say about you?

You've been convicted for falling asleep on duty in Afghanistan, that says enough about your character and self discipline but...  You don't do proper admin research on your own, instead you come to army.ca to have others do it for you, including something as simple as whether or not you can split MATA/PATA with your spouse.  You don't want to be reachable when on weekends, leaving your co-workers hanging if a recall happens.  You think you should have been excused a career course because you were going home for Easter, yet likely would have been the first to cry foul if an AR was done and your leaf removed for refusing to attend even though you were well past the point at which an AR is called for and refusing to attend a career course for personal reasons.  You get a job offer and want the military to continue to employ you for 30 days until it starts even though your TOS were expired and you didn't want to sign a new one, yet you are now upset the military won't waive the six month requirement to break the TOS you subsequently signed, even though D Mil C's decision to start enforcing the policy again when the Branch went yellow was widely circulated multiple times when it happened.  You expect the CAF to provide you with OTC pain meds on demand so you can have them around, "just in case".  And now it looks like you seem to think we should pay you to go to school to get a SECOND bachelors degree so you can take your commission because your first degree isn't suitable for the classification you want, yet you couldn't make the cut for officer on your first try at CFAT and think a waiver should be granted even though the whole point of the cut off line of the CFAT is to set a benchmark for who is suitable for commissioning and who isn't. 

Yet you complain about being treated as a child by the Branch.  If your real life is any reflection of what you are portraying yourself as on this website, it isn't hard to figure out why. 

You hate the Branch, we get it.  We've gotten it for a while now.  As JJT said, grow a set of balls, submit your six month release and beat it.  But you won't.  You will continue to expect us to employ you, to pay you, probably send you on gucci "police" courses to pad your resume, to cater to your other whims and be prepared to release you on the date of your choosing should you be so fortunate as to land a job on the outside. 

Offline rocksteady

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2015, 00:25:17 »
If it's such a joke and sickens you, then GTFO.  Nobody is holding a gun to your head to stay, and frankly with that outlook the trade would be better off being 200 lbs lighter.

I was given offers of employment from two other services but the military wouldnt let me out un time to do training so I feel like I'm stuck.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2015, 00:32:18 »
I was given offers of employment from two other services but the military wouldnt let me out un time to do training so I feel like I'm stuck.

Did you ask for a hold-over? I know of a few RegF that were given Recruit Class hold-overs while they awaited their release. Once they were out, they were put onto the next class.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2015, 05:24:11 »
Lol, most awesome statement ever.  You got in, you're still here, almost 7 years to this point.  You have a "bit of experience", a police foundations diploma, a Bachelor's degree, police recruiters should be drooling all over themselves if you walk in the door, but you haven't been able to get picked up by a "real" police service.  What does your statement say about yourself?

What does your posting history on this website say about you?

You've been convicted for falling asleep on duty in Afghanistan, that says enough about your character and self discipline but...  You don't do proper admin research on your own, instead you come to army.ca to have others do it for you, including something as simple as whether or not you can split MATA/PATA with your spouse.  You don't want to be reachable when on weekends, leaving your co-workers hanging if a recall happens.  You think you should have been excused a career course because you were going home for Easter, yet likely would have been the first to cry foul if an AR was done and your leaf removed for refusing to attend even though you were well past the point at which an AR is called for and refusing to attend a career course for personal reasons.  You get a job offer and want the military to continue to employ you for 30 days until it starts even though your TOS were expired and you didn't want to sign a new one, yet you are now upset the military won't waive the six month requirement to break the TOS you subsequently signed, even though D Mil C's decision to start enforcing the policy again when the Branch went yellow was widely circulated multiple times when it happened.  You expect the CAF to provide you with OTC pain meds on demand so you can have them around, "just in case".  And now it looks like you seem to think we should pay you to go to school to get a SECOND bachelors degree so you can take your commission because your first degree isn't suitable for the classification you want, yet you couldn't make the cut for officer on your first try at CFAT and think a waiver should be granted even though the whole point of the cut off line of the CFAT is to set a benchmark for who is suitable for commissioning and who isn't. 

Yet you complain about being treated as a child by the Branch.  If your real life is any reflection of what you are portraying yourself as on this website, it isn't hard to figure out why. 

You hate the Branch, we get it.  We've gotten it for a while now.  As JJT said, grow a set of balls, submit your six month release and beat it.  But you won't.  You will continue to expect us to employ you, to pay you, probably send you on gucci "police" courses to pad your resume, to cater to your other whims and be prepared to release you on the date of your choosing should you be so fortunate as to land a job on the outside.


Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2015, 07:51:25 »
I was given offers of employment from two other services but the military wouldnt let me out un time to do training so I feel like I'm stuck.

Boohoo.  You signed a contract, live up to it.  If its all that important for you to leave then help us to improve the Branch you hate so much, put your release in and get out so you can take one of these other jobs.  Its as simple as that.  I know I'd appreciate it if you did.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2015, 08:06:59 »
Boohoo.  You signed a contract, live up to it.  If its all that important for you to leave then help us to improve the Branch you hate so much, put your release in and get out so you can take one of these other jobs.  Its as simple as that.  I know I'd appreciate it if you did.

Or another solution, if you see problems with something, write a briefing note to your Chain of Command, submit a UCR, etc.... don't fight the system, learn to work within it. Then again, that might takeaway time to whinge  ;D


Offline Shamrock

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2015, 10:36:31 »
I was given offers of employment from two other services but the military wouldnt let me out un time to do training so I feel like I'm stuck.

Not an MP, have no dog in this fight, and am sorry to hear about your golden handcuffs.  However, lots of non-MP being hired into policing positions have been able to negotiate hire dates to align with their release dates - up to six months.

Offline rocksteady

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2015, 13:36:01 »
Not an MP, have no dog in this fight, and am sorry to hear about your golden handcuffs.  However, lots of non-MP being hired into policing positions have been able to negotiate hire dates to align with their release dates - up to six months.

Yes it depends on the service.  Some will put you on a later course and some will not. 

Offline Scott

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2015, 22:33:29 »
Lol, most awesome statement ever.  You got in, you're still here, almost 7 years to this point.  You have a "bit of experience", a police foundations diploma, a Bachelor's degree, police recruiters should be drooling all over themselves if you walk in the door, but you haven't been able to get picked up by a "real" police service.  What does your statement say about yourself?

What does your posting history on this website say about you?

You've been convicted for falling asleep on duty in Afghanistan, that says enough about your character and self discipline but...  You don't do proper admin research on your own, instead you come to army.ca to have others do it for you, including something as simple as whether or not you can split MATA/PATA with your spouse.  You don't want to be reachable when on weekends, leaving your co-workers hanging if a recall happens.  You think you should have been excused a career course because you were going home for Easter, yet likely would have been the first to cry foul if an AR was done and your leaf removed for refusing to attend even though you were well past the point at which an AR is called for and refusing to attend a career course for personal reasons.  You get a job offer and want the military to continue to employ you for 30 days until it starts even though your TOS were expired and you didn't want to sign a new one, yet you are now upset the military won't waive the six month requirement to break the TOS you subsequently signed, even though D Mil C's decision to start enforcing the policy again when the Branch went yellow was widely circulated multiple times when it happened.  You expect the CAF to provide you with OTC pain meds on demand so you can have them around, "just in case".  And now it looks like you seem to think we should pay you to go to school to get a SECOND bachelors degree so you can take your commission because your first degree isn't suitable for the classification you want, yet you couldn't make the cut for officer on your first try at CFAT and think a waiver should be granted even though the whole point of the cut off line of the CFAT is to set a benchmark for who is suitable for commissioning and who isn't. 

Yet you complain about being treated as a child by the Branch.  If your real life is any reflection of what you are portraying yourself as on this website, it isn't hard to figure out why. 

You hate the Branch, we get it.  We've gotten it for a while now.  As JJT said, grow a set of balls, submit your six month release and beat it.  But you won't.  You will continue to expect us to employ you, to pay you, probably send you on gucci "police" courses to pad your resume, to cater to your other whims and be prepared to release you on the date of your choosing should you be so fortunate as to land a job on the outside.

I'm pretty sure this dude has been an idiot here since 06 and just came back with a different name. Loads of things match up, most prevalent is the piss poor attitude and sheer laziness.

Gonna make an awesome cop, this one.

Rocksteady, ah frig it, you're banned.
Be nice for no reason.

Offline Neso

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2015, 12:45:47 »
I'm not sure if the trade has the signing bonus for applicants with required experience or education.

Wouldn't that be the only sort of accepted applicant? One with relevant experience or meets the education requirements?

Offline mariomike

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2015, 13:36:07 »
Looking over the 43 replies, I was curious if the Original Poster ever came back to read them:
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=73500

Date Registered: September 08, 2014,
Last Active: September 08, 2014,
Posts: 1



« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 13:48:31 by mariomike »

Offline Schindler's Lift

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2015, 16:14:46 »
Wouldn't that be the only sort of accepted applicant? One with relevant experience or meets the education requirements?

No.  Allowances have been made in the past to allow reserve MPs who have completed an overseas deployment to CT into the reg force trade.  As well, remusters are also given certain allowances based upon their training and how far along they may be in the college trade.  And signing bonuses have been a thing of the past for a while now.

Offline Neso

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2015, 06:26:39 »
... reserve MPs who have completed an overseas deployment to CT into the reg force trade. 

... remusters are also given certain allowances based upon their training ...

"Related experience", one might say... ;)

Offline WA88

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2015, 09:42:37 »
Lol, most awesome statement ever.  You got in, you're still here, almost 7 years to this point.  You have a "bit of experience", a police foundations diploma, a Bachelor's degree, police recruiters should be drooling all over themselves if you walk in the door, but you haven't been able to get picked up by a "real" police service.  What does your statement say about yourself?

What does your posting history on this website say about you?

You've been convicted for falling asleep on duty in Afghanistan, that says enough about your character and self discipline but...  You don't do proper admin research on your own, instead you come to army.ca to have others do it for you, including something as simple as whether or not you can split MATA/PATA with your spouse.  You don't want to be reachable when on weekends, leaving your co-workers hanging if a recall happens.  You think you should have been excused a career course because you were going home for Easter, yet likely would have been the first to cry foul if an AR was done and your leaf removed for refusing to attend even though you were well past the point at which an AR is called for and refusing to attend a career course for personal reasons.  You get a job offer and want the military to continue to employ you for 30 days until it starts even though your TOS were expired and you didn't want to sign a new one, yet you are now upset the military won't waive the six month requirement to break the TOS you subsequently signed, even though D Mil C's decision to start enforcing the policy again when the Branch went yellow was widely circulated multiple times when it happened.  You expect the CAF to provide you with OTC pain meds on demand so you can have them around, "just in case".  And now it looks like you seem to think we should pay you to go to school to get a SECOND bachelors degree so you can take your commission because your first degree isn't suitable for the classification you want, yet you couldn't make the cut for officer on your first try at CFAT and think a waiver should be granted even though the whole point of the cut off line of the CFAT is to set a benchmark for who is suitable for commissioning and who isn't. 

Yet you complain about being treated as a child by the Branch.  If your real life is any reflection of what you are portraying yourself as on this website, it isn't hard to figure out why. 

You hate the Branch, we get it.  We've gotten it for a while now.  As JJT said, grow a set of balls, submit your six month release and beat it.  But you won't.  You will continue to expect us to employ you, to pay you, probably send you on gucci "police" courses to pad your resume, to cater to your other whims and be prepared to release you on the date of your choosing should you be so fortunate as to land a job on the outside.

I can feel the heat of that burn from here. Well done.

Offline ResMP

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Re: Leaving local police service for MP
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2015, 22:31:12 »
 :salute: :nod: ;D ::) - OMG that was good - I need to log on to this site more often.

Offline ResMP

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Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2016, 14:54:12 »
All this talk about Civilian Police Agencies taking MP Straight across. Does anyone know if the Military Police Branch has discussed or ever considered a program that recognizes civilian police training and qualifications?

I often hear the frustration from Reg Force Qualified MP's who have difficultly having their trg recognized. I am wondering what the concerns are for the opposite circumstance.

Hypothetically speaking ... lets say a civilian police officer - who is a reservist and close to retirement on the Civilian Police side - is looking to collect a Civilian Police Pension and still wants to go to the Regular Force Military Police.

What say you about the possibility of the MP Branch taking an Accredited Civilian Police Officer straight across?

Offline mariomike

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2016, 15:00:40 »
collect a Civilian Police Pension and still wants to go to the Regular Force Military Police.

If given the option,

How many would want to go to the Regular Force Military Police?

How many would want to go to a neighbouring municipality?
There are five municipalities in the GTA. All are in the same OMERS pension plan.
http://www.omers.com/pension/employers_supplemental_plan.aspx
Training and assignments are within the borders of the municipality.
"A successful applicant will receive a credit of 80 hours of lieu time (equivalent of two weeks leave)."
"Up to and including first class constable, applicants will be accepted at their current rank."
1st Class Constable $94,524 ( Base salary, without OT, court, shift bonus, Stat Holidays, Paid Duty etc. )
Add that to a 70 per cent OMERS pension.

Disclaimer: As always,  the best source of information is Recruiting.
















« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 14:23:09 by mariomike »

Offline garb811

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2016, 20:00:31 »
All this talk about Civilian Police Agencies taking MP Straight across. Does anyone know if the Military Police Branch has discussed or ever considered a program that recognizes civilian police training and qualifications?

I often hear the frustration from Reg Force Qualified MP's who have difficultly having their trg recognized. I am wondering what the concerns are for the opposite circumstance.

Hypothetically speaking ... lets say a civilian police officer - who is a reservist and close to retirement on the Civilian Police side - is looking to collect a Civilian Police Pension and still wants to go to the Regular Force Military Police.

What say you about the possibility of the MP Branch taking an Accredited Civilian Police Officer straight across?
This has been discussed and the general answer is "no".  BUT, there is scope for PLARs to be done, particularly if the Reservist is also a PRes MP, and has someone willing to help them with the leg work on that.

Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2016, 23:51:20 »
 

Edit: nevermind, I read the thread wrong, ha.
"The most important six inches on the battlefield is between your ears.” ~General James "Mad Dog" Mattis, USMC

Offline Brihard

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2016, 05:55:51 »
"Military" "police"... A civilian police officer could certainly bring the latter half of the picture, but would still lack the military knowledge and training. BMQ, and the appropriate environmental indoc course, plus some MP specific duties like convoy ops and military detainee handling.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline ResMP

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2016, 12:45:11 »
"Military" "police"... A civilian police officer could certainly bring the latter half of the picture, but would still lack the military knowledge and training. BMQ, and the appropriate environmental indoc course, plus some MP specific duties like convoy ops and military detainee handling.

This has been discussed and the general answer is "no".  BUT, there is scope for PLARs to be done, particularly if the Reservist is also a PRes MP, and has someone willing to help them with the leg work on that.

This particular situation references an individual who would have 32 years MP PRes Experience (at the time of retirement) - with a couple of tours - 3 Class C contracts working MP Garrision Patrol Duties - On top of this he will have 25 years Civilian Police Experience with an accredited police service (1800+ mbrs) Civilian Police Trg would encompass both the spectrums of operational and investigative qualifications. With hopefully no blemishes on his Military Service Record.

I appreciate the requirement for BMQ, Driver TRg, etc - That makes sense - Would the Branch ever consider a compressed trg program to cover the Military Law Report writing etc for an old man that potentially has the bulk of the trg that would be taught on QL3.

Offline Poppa

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2016, 13:26:27 »
After a PLAR is done and any applicible quals granted the most likely course of action would be for the member to attend blocks of a Res Ql 3 to pick up whatever PO's are outstanding. This is something we've done out here a few times
"The Platoon is for all purposes, the unit for whose perfection we strive. Because a perfect platoon means a perfect battalion and brigade or division and the efficiency of any army corps is to be measured by that of it's platoons." Major General Sir John Monash

Offline ResMP

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2016, 13:36:27 »
Thanks for the info - Can the PLAR process occur while the mbr is still in the Res?

Offline garb811

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Re: Civilian Police lateral to Military Police - Considerations
« Reply #57 on: January 27, 2016, 14:29:22 »
Thanks for the info - Can the PLAR process occur while the mbr is still in the Res?
It has to take place while the member is still PRes as it is part of the CT process.  I would advise starting to prepare the PLARs prior to the actual CT application so that it is ready to go when it is asked for.

As a CT the offer is a lot different than it is for a direct entry with no military background.  The offer message contains details such as rank on enrollment, recognized course qualifications plus the actual position/location they will be posted to so the member will know exactly what they are signing on for.