Author Topic: Decommissioning announcement 19 Sep 2014 - 2x Destroyers and 2 x AOR  (Read 73167 times)

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jollyjacktar

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For those of us who are Tanker Wankers, this comes as little surprise.

Shared under the fair dealings provisions of the copyright act.

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Navy techs scour eBay for parts to keep 1970s vintage supply ships running
The Canadian PressBy Murray Brewster, The Canadian Press | The Canadian Press – 4 hours ago.

OTTAWA - Newly released government records show that navy mechanics in Halifax had to scour the Internet and use eBay to find parts for one of its two supply ships.

But the briefing notes obtained by The Canadian Press, prepared for navy commander Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, show the technicians were fighting a losing battle to keep HMCS Preserver on duty.

The documents show many of the parts on the 45-year-old ship were "beyond acceptable limits" because corrosion issues had begun to compromise the vessel's structural integrity.

National Defence said last year that both Preserver and its sister ship HMCS Protecteur — gutted by a dangerous at-sea fire — would be retired before replacement ships arrived.

"It will be very difficult to continue to confidently operate her at sea until her planned divestment date in 18 months," said the May 9, 2014 briefing note, which was also copied to the head of military procurement.

The navy had planned to replace both ships, but the Conservative government pulled the plug in August 2008 because industry proposals were proving too costly. The new program is still up to eight years way from delivering new ships.

It's long been known that the ships were in precarious shape and getting worse, but the briefing said it "was no longer viable to expend limited resources" to keep them going.

The notes make evident the department's frustration that the ships were not retired on schedule. Technicians would fix one broken part and "once this is fixed, the next question is which equipment or system will be the next to fail."

Protecteur was recently decomissioned, while a formal ceremony for Preserver has to be announced.

Since the original manufacturers long ago stopped making spare parts, a "disproportionate amount of time" was being used to source replacements, "some of which have been procured via eBay," the documents found.

A separate set of briefing notes, obtained by the federal Liberals, shows the impending retirement of the navy's Iroquois-class destroyers will leave an air defence gap for Canadian task forces at sea.

Liberal MP Marc Garneau, a former naval officer and astronaut, said the fleet is in a shambles, even with the multibillion-dollar upgrade to the Halifax-class frigates, which are the backbone of the navy.

Lauren Armstrong, a spokeswoman for Defence Minister Jason Kenney, said the navy will be able to carry out operations ordered by the government, both at home and abroad.

She added the Liberals are in no position to be lecturing on military procurement.

"As the minister said at committee, between 1992 and 2005, the previous Liberal government did not procure or even attempt to procure, with the exception of the failed maritime helicopter procurement, a single major piece of military equipment," said Armstrong in an email.

While the Liberals cut the defence budget deeply, under their watch the military did receive new LAV III armoured vehicles, M-777 artillery, CH-149 Cormorant helicopters, coastal defence vessels and the oft-maligned Victoria-class submarines.

Garneau said the absence of supply ships means Canadian warships will have to operate individually; they cannot form task forces of their own, and must rely on other nations for replenishment.

Armstrong responded by saying construction of the first replacement for the supply ships is expected to begin in 2017, and the government is also studying plans for an interim capability.

Without air defence destroyers, Canadian frigates will have to seek protection from long-range threats under the umbrella of U.S. combat vessels, said Garneau.

He said the Conservatives played politics with the navy by cancelling new supply ships on the eve of the 2008 election, and forced the military to accept Arctic patrol ships ahead of new destroyers.

"Mr. Harper decided he wanted to be known from a legacy point of view as big on the Arctic and has gone up every year for that photo-op," Garneau said.

"That's all driven by politics."

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Offline FSTO

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2002, PRO, San Diego.

Stokers had to go to some old machine shop near the Mexican border to get a pipe fitting made. Turns out the guy there used to work at the Navy Yard and was the only one who knew how to manufacture that part!

I will say again, Canada had a fully functioning shipyard with a fully trained and capable workforce who would have been able to build 4 AOR's that we KNEW that needed to be replaced. And we pissed it away. The navy, government bureaucrats, politicians and the Canadian public are all to blame for letting that place fall apart.

jollyjacktar

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2002, PRO, San Diego.

Stokers had to go to some old machine shop near the Mexican border to get a pipe fitting made. Turns out the guy there used to work at the Navy Yard and was the only one who knew how to manufacture that part!

I will say again, Canada had a fully functioning shipyard with a fully trained and capable workforce who would have been able to build 4 AOR's that we KNEW that needed to be replaced. And we pissed it away. The navy, government bureaucrats, politicians and the Canadian public are all to blame for letting that place fall apart.

Around the same time frame with PRE, we had to go to a backyard mechanic/welder in PR to jury rig some things for the boilers at a cost of $15K cash so we could get home.  A sad sad state of affairs.

Offline Navy_Pete

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In case anyone is curious, this ebay part of the story is completely true, took a lot to get approved, but sadly, actually happened.  Someone was clearing out a warehouse of old stuff cheap, that was probably stocked 50 years ago when it was all the rage.

Offline jmt18325

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In fairness, I do buy fire equipment off of eBay too.

Offline Underway

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I don't see this as an issue.  If the part can't be found elsewhere or is cheaper off ebay why wouldn't you get it there?  I wonder if their is a whole AOR on ebay we could get...

Offline Colin P

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For you special deal  ;D






jollyjacktar

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ATH is euchered.  She shouldn't in my personal opinion go out to sea again for many reasons, some of which are shared under the fair dealings provisions of the copyright act in story below.

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HMCS Athabaskan sent back to Halifax for major engine repairs

Crew 'not able to control the engines' of flagship of Royal Canadian Navy's East Coast fleet

CBC News Posted: Jul 20, 2015 6:24 PM AT| Last Updated: Jul 20, 2015 6:24 PM AT

The flagship vessel in the Royal Canadian Navy's East Coast fleet has been called back to Halifax from deployment because of serious engine problems.

HMCS Athabaskan — the navy's last destroyer — has been in service for 43 years and is starting to show its age. It needs major repairs to the propulsion system and there are other engine issues, the navy said Monday.

"We're not able to control the engines and they were using secondary means to run the engines," said Rear Admiral John Newton.

There are also questions about the ship's weapons systems.

"I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, based on the age of the ship, that some of her primary warfare systems — we would not rely on them in this modern era," Newton said.

"It's not like we're being denied fleet size or fleet capability. We have lots in our account right now and our job is to employ it effectively."

Ken Hansen, a military expert, disagrees.

"I think it is highly probable the Athabaskan will never sail again," said Hansen, a research fellow at Dalhousie University's Centre for Foreign Policy Studies.

"The problem is that you couldn't send Athabaskan anywhere and reliably expect her to get there or to get home again. She's going to break down. You've got to be able to move to fight," he said.

"If the navy thinks … that sending Athabaskan sends a strong signal to the Russians — it's the wrong kind of signal. It's a signal that says Canada's navy has crapped out and they don't have to be worried."

HMCS Athabaskan is scheduled to take part in a large military exercise in October, as part of NATO. Hansen called that plan a "bad diplomatic move," given the state of the vessel

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hmcs-athabaskan-sent-back-to-halifax-for-major-engine-repairs-1.3160864

Offline donaldk

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Curious went went wrong with the engines if the crew was able to control them manually.  From the press release it looks more like an IMCS/RTU/PLA issue - most likely all hard to fix because no parts in system and unsupported by CFSS (same exact nonsense when I was on IRO). As usual, the media is vague and often wrong.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Curious went went wrong with the engines if the crew was able to control them manually.  From the press release it looks more like an IMCS/RTU/PLA issue - most likely all hard to fix because no parts in system and unsupported by CFSS (same exact nonsense when I was on IRO). As usual, the media is vague and often wrong.

Well they have two ships alongside for parts, repair the ship and get her back to sea.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

كافر

Offline PanaEng

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Athabaskan down . Now What?
« Reply #110 on: July 21, 2015, 10:05:29 »
Will she or will she not sail again?  or should she?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/hmcs-athabaskan-sent-back-to-halifax-for-major-engine-repairs-1.3160864

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Ken Hansen, a military expert.

"I think it is highly probable the Athabaskan will never sail again," said Hansen, a research fellow at Dalhousie University's Centre for Foreign Policy Studies.

"The problem is that you couldn't send Athabaskan anywhere and reliably expect her to get there or to get home again. She's going to break down. You've got to be able to move to fight," he said.
Now I am SAS or SWAT dude ;-)
see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

The 'pana" is a play on the Greek 'pan' meaning 'all' or 'encompassing' - not quite but similar to UBIQUE
some think I just misspelled "para" :-)

Offline Colin P

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The Russians will be impressed if she sails and returns. Their own fleet is of the same vintage and is often accompanied by tugs.

Offline Lumber

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Re: Decommissioning announcement 19 Sep 2014 - 2x Destroyers and 2 x AOR
« Reply #112 on: August 07, 2015, 11:38:30 »
The Russians will be impressed if she sails and returns. Their own fleet is of the same vintage and is often accompanied by tugs.

Most of the current Russian surface fleet was built between 1982 (Moskva) and 1993 (Admiral Ushakov). There are a even few even newer platforms (Udaloy-II and corvettes/frigates). So they have a little bit of a better starting point than us (and I'm not even looking at their Sub fleet).

"If the current situation [with shipbuilding] remains unchanged, we will face a grand-scale removal of ocean-going warships from service with the Russian Navy by 2015 and, as a result, a sharp decrease in its combat capabilities," Adm. Vyacheslav Popov (2009)
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

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"Last voyage of the HMCS Protecteur"
« Reply #113 on: April 19, 2016, 06:57:41 »
This from The Canadian Press:
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After a storied career spanning half a century, a former Royal Canadian Navy workhorse is winding up its final seven-week journey, sailing toward its own dismantling on Nova Scotia’s south shore.

The former HMCS Protecteur carried more than 10,000 sailors over 800,000 nautical miles in its time, including service in the 1991 Gulf war.

Now de-commissioned, it left its home base in Esquimalt, B.C., on Feb. 24 and was towed south through the Panama canal before beginning its final leg north to Liverpool, N.S., expected to arrive this week.

The 172-metre long supply ship will meet its end, coincidentally, in the hometown of a family closely connected to the ship, including the high ranking officer who once commanded her as head of Canada’s Pacific Naval Fleet ...
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