Author Topic: I feel like I am crazy - VP related  (Read 17824 times)

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Offline George Wallace

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2014, 15:48:33 »
Transverse? I doubt it, other than unit-level SOPs. Our NDSIs were effective 1999 and still reference magnetic tapes.... we'll see a transverse SOP in 2050.

By then your great, great grand kids will have forgotten what a radio looks like.
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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2014, 16:08:00 »
So... in keeping up the spirit, a thumbs dwon smiley is the most economical way to communicate no/negative

 >:D

I would say that absolutely falls under brevity and clarity.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2014, 17:35:19 »
First of all, the opposite of "Negative" is not "positive", it is "Affirmative", at least in Naval NATO radio comms which we use in canada (don't know about what the Airforce uses).

Second, brevity is a key concept: It means don't repeat yourself uselessly.

Therefore, both original answers proposed by the OP are wrong: If the question over the air is "any traffic for me?" then the answer should be IMO "Negative, Out" (or "No, Out" if that is what everyone uses) in a directed net. There is no reason to add the words "traffic for you at this time" to either reply: They ask specifically for any traffic and you said no - they know it refers to traffic, and since you are answering them this very moment, they already know it is "at this time".

Offline Occam

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2014, 19:42:44 »
OGBD, It's been so long I can't remember if it's in the ACPs, or simply a best practice, but in a directed net, the NCS is normally the last to transmit.  (A is NCS below).  I can't think of a place where it's appropriate to simply respond with a Roger Out other than in Beadwindow procedure.

B this is A, do you have traffic for me, over
This is B, negative, over
This is A, roger, out.

Offline Greymatters

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2014, 01:54:50 »
Well, the wording debate seems to be resolved - Im still confused as to why the 'senior radop' would be asking for traffic; wouldnt someone be monitoring his callsign while he was away?  If he's mobile why doesnt he have his radio with him? 

Offline ixium

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2014, 09:51:41 »
No, he isn't monitoring the net. People under him are.

The net isn't a normal net, it is for aircraft who don't monitor it 24/7 and different flights are up all the time, so different call signs all the time.

The majority of calls coming into my station are them asking for traffic from wing ops or rescue control center.

Comms aren't clear most of the time because of the vast distance (like anywhere from 5km to 10 000km).

A this is B, radio check
A, we have you 4x4 (or whatever they are)
B, we are ops normals in sector 8 can we get selcal check on XXXX and any traffic from RCC?
A, rogers ops normal, standby for selcall on XXXX
A calls RCC for traffic
A sends selcal XXXX
A this is B, selcal checks send traffic
A, negative traffic (no traffic)

What's the difference between the last line?

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2014, 16:36:39 »
OGBD, It's been so long I can't remember if it's in the ACPs, or simply a best practice, but in a directed net, the NCS is normally the last to transmit.  (A is NCS below).  I can't think of a place where it's appropriate to simply respond with a Roger Out other than in Beadwindow procedure.

B this is A, do you have traffic for me, over
This is B, negative, over
This is A, roger, out.

I agree with you here. It's just that my understanding from the OP and early response led me to believe that the Op was the net director. But glad you agree with me that all this extra "traffic for you at this time" is superfluous.

Offline mark-space

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2014, 06:32:23 »
"...When talking on the radio (specifically HF if that matters at all, which I know it doesn't) what is the response to:

Any traffic for me?

No traffic for you at this time
or
Negative traffic for you at this time

I've always said it the second way, and for years and it has never been an issue. In the ACP125 is has in the box beside NEGATIVE it says "No. "In any NATO standard document it says the same information..."


Sounds like the kind of "picking fly **** out of pepper" argument Jimmies are prone to have while on mids at a MACS station!

I suspect that discussions about "directed nets" and sermons from the Book of Radiotelephone Procedure for the Canadian Forces (Land Environment) hold as much interest for your customers as they ever have...ideally, a "senior radop" would be able to recognize that an aeronautical land station is not the same as a BG/Bde/Bn CP and adjust accordingly. Maybe tuning a reciever to Gander or Shanwick or flipping through RIC-21 would help him/her see VP from a Pilots' perspective. After all, isn't the objective to provide efficient communication to aircraft stations...?

A quick viewing of Appendix B of the RIC shows that your use of the word "NEGATIVE" is proper. If that isn't good enough for him/her, maybe a lucky shift supervisor or CCO should be asked to provide final judgement... >:D

 


Offline Bucky

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Re: I feel like I am crazy - VP related
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2014, 20:34:15 »
Is there a manual for text procedure via that IRC program we use?

Actually, yes!

Your IMO has likely published a copy on sharepoint.

(Yay! I knew a thing!)
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