Author Topic: Just throwing out ideas  (Read 8636 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pepperpots

  • Guest
  • *
  • 25
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4
Just throwing out ideas
« on: January 31, 2015, 20:40:38 »
I'm not sure how to start this but having seen some aspects of the Military's fitness training programs and having a bit of education on the subject I thought I'd post my idea and let everyone have at it to see what comes up.  Here is a short but important list with benefits associated with overall fitness.

Improved individual performance
Less prone to injury/illness (lost productivity and drain on resources)
Improved mental agility/mood
Greater personal satisfaction
Greater physical/mental fortitude
Improved public image
Teamwork and improved group cohesion

As I said, not all the benefits but enough to start.
 
The CF does on the whole a good job promoting physical fitness but like CDN society from which it pulls its members, fitness levels vary.  Ideally, the CF should, on the whole be above national average.  How best to get there?  Here's my thoughts.

Upon recruitment and before basic, new members are grouped A through E in areas of muscular strength/endurance, cardiovascular endurance and agility/coordination.  'A' being highly above average.  Individuals who already possess a high level of fitness and who only need refine their fitness regimes.  'E' being those members who spell it "Jim".

Upon arrival at basic training, recruits can expect two sessions of PT per day, once in the morning and once in the evening.  During one of those sessions, recruits are organized according to their assessed fitness level (A-E) and taught by PSP staff. The goal of these PT sessions is to provide members with the tools and methods by which they can move up their level.  Focus is onMarathon mentality vs a sprint. 
During the second session PT focuses on group (platoon) physical performance and led by military DS.  Obstacle courses, group tasks focused on teamwork, competition, group cohesion and group achievement.  'A' level individuals will not be challenged physically while 'E' level individuals will be challenged.  The focus during this session is on the group rather than the individual.

At the completion of basic training recruits should be tested and should see their individual fitness levels improved in a culture which embraces and values these qualities.  Recruits walk away having performed a routine fitness program and are given a personalized training program to take with them onto their next training phase.  This last is key, because having a tangible plan written down increases the likelihood it will be maintained and followed.

An 'E' individual may have only moved up to 'D' but they have accomplished that and have the plan on how to continue their development.  I believe the one size fits none / PT pain period is counter productive in forming long term behaviours, which is what is what is ultimately wanted.

Ok, there's my pitch.  Into the pit it goes.  Have at'er.
 

Offline Schindler's Lift

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 18,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • http://goo.gl/1E5Ez0
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2015, 21:13:04 »
And the ones that can spell "gym" go where?

Other then that I have a couple of quick questions:

1)  How many periods of PT are done each day now at basic?  For every period of PT you want to put in something else has to come out which will result in longer training days (which are already more then packed) or a longer course which results in increased costs and many other trickle down effects.

2)  Are there enough PSP staff available to conduct all of these extra training blocks?  If not, scheduling is a nightmare and the battle must be fought to hire more staff.

3)  You want military members to instruct the second period but, and perhaps this has changed, do not these people need to be qualified to run such training sessions which will again result in increased costs and increased stresses on an already busy instructor cadre.

4)  Lastly, this may all work for the initial period of basic but what about after that?  I know my trade has quite a long QL3 course which is pretty PT intensive but many others do not.  You may find all you have is people working out extra for the first 10 weeks of their career and then back to normal after that.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2015, 21:18:34 by Schindler's Lift »

Offline BeyondTheNow

  • Directing Staff
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • 48,750
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 830
  • Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2015, 22:36:30 »
S/L raises some good points. And while this is a point of contention for some, especially when comparing some aspects of today's BMQ PT schedule with how things may have been in the past, there is plenty of PT in a given day, IMO. It's the TYPE of PT that some people may have issues with.

One has to look at a typical BMQ day in its totality, not broken down into specific periods identified as "PT." For example, periods are generally 40-45 minutes long (excluding morning PT, which is generally only about 30mins due to time constraints.). Some PT sessions are usually 2-3 periods consecutively. So, there's our specific "PT" for the day. Now start throwing in the other stuff; multiple periods of drill, change parade, kit parade, corrective measures/punishment PT, push-ups given for whatever whenever, several trips up the stairs (if you're lucky, only 4th floor. For the rest of us, unlucky especially those on the 10th floor.), obstacle <a-hem> "confidence" course, marching from place to place in general, which can easily add up to kms/day, days such as St. Bruno, week's 8 & 11 at Farnham, etc etc etc...The days are filled with PT adequately, considering everything that needs to be included in training throughout the 12 weeks. Also to be taken into consideration are the 'hell platoons', which seem to endure a lot more, shall we say, "additional physical conditioning" compared to some other platoons. Just my experience, of course...
"Stop worrying about getting back to who you were before it all went wrong. To heal is to understand that the person you've since become is the one who's most capable of doing whatever it is you were put here to do."~SR

Offline Pepperpots

  • Guest
  • *
  • 25
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2015, 20:15:00 »
Concede to all your points.  Although they are not insurmountable.  I just wanted to start a discussion on the topic and see what came up.  The issue as I've seen it in its current state is this.

Initial BMQ runs a one size fits all type of training where the top tier is unchallenged, and the bottom tier has the $!&/ beaten out of them.  Only a small percentage of the middle see any real advancement.  Once the regimented schedule of BMQ falls away, those who most need to change their habits slip back into their previous habits.  As I see BMQ, in addition to passing on new knowledge,  the training is also trying to positively change individual behaviours.  "Short" periods of intensity have been proven to ultimately ineffective in changing underlying behaviour.  Joining the military can be likened to learning a new language.  The most effective way of doing this is prolonged immersion.  (At this point I could run down a tangent of my thoughts on how we have senior ranks at units spending time and being paid associated salaries doing DL courses which deal with topics associated with BASIC CF/ Elemental functions). But I digress... 

I'd really like to see BMQ graduates leave with a "somewhat" individualized fitness program as I believe it would be more likely to be followed post BMQ.  Especially if it was reviewed by a PSP on a somewhat regular interval.  Once a year at FORCE test time or even once every two years. 

I'd love to see a program focused on long term goals and rather than a "get them on the line as fast as possible then work on filling in the pieces we missed."  Extra training early may be warranted if it saves training time later.  Wouldn't it be better to spend and extra month early if it saved members from thaking three months off from their primary jobs / families once at units?

As for the whole PSP qualification, is it possible for military DS run a PSP sponsored program?  I suspect I know the lawyer answer to this but I have my own thoughts on that. Eg: 3km platoon run.

Offline Schindler's Lift

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 18,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • http://goo.gl/1E5Ez0
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2015, 20:51:47 »
Its a BMQ not a personal fitness program.  If you want to place such high importance on fitness as to add extra classes and/or generation of personalized fitness programs that won't be followed once BMQ finishes (unless you want to revamp the whole PSP program too) then be prepared to sacrifice training in other areas such as drill, dress, deportment, military history, military law, military ethics, first aid, fieldcraft, map reading, weapons famil, and a whole host of other training topics that are expected to be instructed during the course.  Something else would have to give.

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 79,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,743
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2015, 20:59:54 »
Who needs map reading with a GPS?

Offline Teager

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 38,705
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 794
    • Canada For Victory
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2015, 21:43:20 »
So your basically saying fitness can be improved for all BMQ candidates and can take a fitness plan with them after BMQ? Well someone else could make the same argument for almost anything else such as weapons handling and shooting skills. I'm sure many would love to see more time dedicated to weapons drills and shooting skills regardless of trade and have a drills/shooting skills program made up and constantly reviewed for continuous improvement.

The reality is that's not going to happen unless a member does it on there own time at a civilian range. The same goes for PT if you want more or need more there's nothing stopping you from doing it on your own time.

Who needs map reading with a GPS?
Still need time to teach the GPS  :P

Offline Schindler's Lift

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 18,435
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 799
  • http://goo.gl/1E5Ez0
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2015, 22:33:56 »
Who needs map reading with a GPS?

If you want to go into the field relying only on a GPS with no means of backup then thats fine.  Just let me know what Roto you're on so I can plan for another one.

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 79,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,743
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2015, 23:27:58 »
I haven't used a map since basic, but my comment was meant as somewhat of a joke...

Offline Hamish Seggie

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 215,782
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,927
  • This is my son Michael, KIA Afghanistan 3 Sep 08
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2015, 00:09:10 »
I haven't used a map since basic, but my comment was meant as somewhat of a joke...

I kinda figured that.......
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline daftandbarmy

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 215,340
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,463
  • The Older I Get, The Better I Was
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2015, 00:59:21 »
Who needs map reading with a GPS?

A downed pilot?
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline SupersonicMax

    is back home.

  • Mentor
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 79,580
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,743
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2015, 01:02:25 »
We have GPS. ;)

Offline Pusser

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 84,960
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,766
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 05:51:29 »
We have GPS. ;)

Until the satellite gets hacked or destroyed ...
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 434,550
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,570
  • Crewman
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 08:54:39 »
We have GPS. ;)

Maps don't use batteries. 
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline sidemount

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 6,090
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 414
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2015, 09:18:10 »
And us NCOs need maps so we can show the officer where they are when they get lost with the GPS they don't know how to use and the map they can't read

 :panic:

 :stirpot:
Leadership is solving problems. The day soldiers stop bringing you their problems is the day you have stopped leading them. They have either lost confidence that you can help or concluded you do not care. Either case is a failure of leadership. - Colin Powell

Offline Brasidas

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 20,615
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 535
Re: Just throwing out ideas
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 10:04:07 »
Recruit school is a selection course. Its not geared to cull out a large portion of the candidates, but it is the first check in the box before any other investment goes into the candidate.

Lifelong fitness (or career-long) is admirable, but the investment belongs in the period after they pass that point.

I've lost fitness in each and every course I've been on. Instructors literally called in hungover for PT on my trades courses. I think things could certainly be better for the CF as a whole. But restructuring BMQ in the way that you're suggesting isn't the way. Other tightly packed courses aren't the place either. The place has got to be at the unit level or the base as a whole.