Author Topic: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer  (Read 10253 times)

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Offline Neso

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MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« on: April 17, 2015, 19:06:15 »
Can anyone comment on the similarities and differences between an MPO and a Commissioned Police Officer, Inspector on up, in a Civilian Police agency?

Being that there is no such thing as a Junior Commissioned Officer in CivPol, in Canada at least, I would assume there are many differences in their duties and perception from the NCO's.

I haven't been able to find much information on the topic. Thanks.

Offline Inspir

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2015, 19:21:19 »
Civilian Commissioned Police Officers (CCPO's) work their way through the lower ranks. MPO's do not, unless they are commissioned from the ranks. It is not uncommon to see CCPO's still working on the streets as Inspectors or Superindendents. From what I have seen from Garbs posts it is not the same with MPO's. But overall CCPO's and MPO's manage the force from behind a desk.

Offline Inspir

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2015, 19:30:36 »
Which is a benefit that I believe the MP branch is truly missing out on.

Offline Alberta Bound

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2015, 22:34:41 »
In the RCMP, Inspectors and up are supposed to be the "strategic" thinkers / planners. Not many see much of any street policing after being commissioned.

Cpls, Sgts, S/Sgts are the "operational / tactical" leaders.

I have found that our best officers are those with solid operational experience. The ones who are heavy in administrative or specialized investigative experience are the ones who lack vision in the complexities of policing. They are just too tunnel visioned and often risk averse and make their main task career progression over all else. Unfortunately these are also those who end up writing our policies and making critical decisions. 

Offline Neso

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2015, 00:48:36 »
Do any benefits come to mind from having a separate rank scheme (CAF) vice the CivPol method of progressing through the NCO ranks before commissioning?

What would the CivPol's functional equivalent be of a CAF Lt or Capt?

MWO or CWO?

Offline Inspir

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2015, 01:11:03 »
From an RCMP standpoint a Lieutenant or Captain in the Forces would be equivalent to an Inspector or Superintendent. A Master Warrant Office or Chief Warrant Officer would be equivalent to a Staff Sergeant Major or Sergeant Major.

Offline GreenWood

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2015, 07:36:37 »
From an RCMP standpoint a Lieutenant or Captain in the Forces would be equivalent to an Inspector or Superintendent. A Master Warrant Office or Chief Warrant Officer would be equivalent to a Staff Sergeant Major or Sergeant Major.

It's really hard to compare, my step-father who just recently retired, was a Superintendent, worked frequently with an Lieutenant-colonel when they both lived and worked in Spain and his pay (my step fathers) was quite superior...

Offline Alberta Bound

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2015, 08:42:36 »
I would agree with Greenwood that there are no hard and fast equivalents in the ranks between each. Most RCMP Inspectors have at least 20 years experience. They are more at the Major level.

Also MWOs don't equate to Staff SMs and CWOs to SMs. RCMP SMs are ceremonial ( mostly) positions.  There are in total only about 17 - 20 SMs in Canada. Their spot is more in line with brigade, division, branch SMs in the CF. It is an appointment.

If you kept using that analogy downwards an RCMP Cpl, promotion at minimum 7 years but average 10 years service would be equal to a CF Cpl.   




Online mariomike

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2015, 08:53:56 »
Can anyone comment on the similarities and differences between an MPO and a Commissioned Police Officer, Inspector on up, in a Civilian Police agency?

There are differences in pay. Toronto's Police Chief made $349,259.68 in earnings last year and $2,333.34 in benefits. ( A Constable earned $244,095.67 and $774.02 in benefits. )

Some similarities and differences in Rank Insignia:
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/rank/

Commissioned police officers plan, organize, direct, control and evaluate police force administration and police activities such as maintaining law and order and detecting and preventing crime. They are employed by municipal, provincial and federal governments. This unit group includes officers from the rank of staff sergeant to police commissioner. Commissioned officers in the railway police are also included in this unit group.
•Plan, organize, direct, control and evaluate the activities of a police force or division of a police force
•Develop and implement police force policies and procedures
•Oversee police investigations and ensure that procedures are conducted in accordance with laws and regulations
•Assess performance of subordinates and authorize promotions, transfers and disciplinary actions.
•Several years of experience as a police officer are required.
http://www30.rhdcc.gc.ca/CNP/English/NOC/2006/Profile.aspx?val=0&val1=0641

Much of this has been already covered:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site:army.ca+MPO&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&start=10&ei=sF4yVZuDKaGSsQSMnIGAAg#rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&q=site:army.ca+MPO






« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 10:47:38 by mariomike »

Offline Container

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2015, 11:08:58 »
Span of control and responsibility-wise the Inspector is closest to an CF Major.

A commission isn't required for "tactical command" positions. The very first NCO rank in the RCMP- CPL- can find themselves commanding detachments. And a constable could find themselves respossible for one as well in an acting capacity.
Posted again...thats six in six.

Offline Dan M

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2015, 11:58:26 »
A Constable earned $244,095.67 and $774.02 in benefits.

Please show me anywhere on the planet earth, let alone Toronto, where a police constable earns a salary of a quarter million dollars a year.

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Online mariomike

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2015, 12:12:30 »
Please show me anywhere on the planet earth, let alone Toronto, where a police constable earns a salary of a quarter million dollars a year.

Not quite a quarter mil, but pretty close:

2.Abdulhameed Virani, Police Constable, $244,095.67, $774.02
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/16/sunshine-list-toronto-polices-top-earners

TORONTO - The Toronto Police Services Board wants an explanation for why more than half of the service’s employees earned more than $100,000 last year — including a police constable who made over $244,000.

That is misleading because 5,200 members are police officers, and 2,700 are civilian employees. If you were to remove the ( usually lower paid ) 2,700 civilian employees from the equation, I suspect the percentage on the Sunshine List would be much higher.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 12:18:24 by mariomike »

Offline Brihard

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2015, 12:23:50 »
Not quite a quarter mil, but pretty close:

2.Abdulhameed Virani, Police Constable, $244,095.67, $774.02
http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/16/sunshine-list-toronto-polices-top-earners

TORONTO - The Toronto Police Services Board wants an explanation for why more than half of the service’s employees earned more than $100,000 last year — including a police constable who made over $244,000.

That is misleading because 5,200 members are police officers, and 2,700 are civilian employees. If you were to remove the ( usually lower paid ) 2,700 civilian employees from the equation, I suspect the percentage on the Sunshine List would be much higher.

Then he probably worked half again his normal hours on overtime to make that. Not impossible, but certainly outlandish and not at all representative of what a cop normally makes. A police constable won't make a salary of even half that. But f they sacrifice an outside life for as much OT as they can humanly do, it's possible.
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Online mariomike

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2015, 12:46:31 »
But f they sacrifice an outside life for as much OT as they can humanly do, it's possible.

Back when OT was offered by seniority, some many did go for the "gravy" *.  With both hands!:)
Around when the Sunshine List came out to shed a light on the high earners, OT switched from a seniority bid to a city-wide "Equitable Distribution Process for Voluntary Overtime". ie: Now, everyone, regardless of seniority, gets offered their fair share of OT. Equalization prevents some of the more "outlandish" cases we saw of OT champions in the past.   

Funny thing I remember is when the city switched from cashable paper pay cheques to Direct Deposit, some elected to stay on the manual cheque system. In fact, to this day, a few still remain "grand-fathered" on the old manual pay system. ( Much to the chagrin of the Treasury Dept. ) When asked why, they invariably said they did not want their spouses to know how much of that OT cash they were pocketing.  ;D

*As our former mayor liked to call it.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 11:40:01 by mariomike »

Offline Hatchet Man

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2015, 13:20:56 »
Then he probably worked half again his normal hours on overtime to make that. Not impossible, but certainly outlandish and not at all representative of what a cop normally makes. A police constable won't make a salary of even half that. But f they sacrifice an outside life for as much OT as they can humanly do, it's possible.

More likely is paid-duties, since this is the first year that has been included for inclusion on to the sunshine list.

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2015, 13:48:28 »
More likely is paid-duties, since this is the first year that has been included for inclusion on to the sunshine list.

Also, high producers of tickets - such as "Prohibited Turns" - can rack up a lot of OT in Traffic Court.
Four hours OT at time and a half on a day off. Even if it only takes a few minutes. Three hours OT at time and a half if before a scheduled shift.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 14:08:31 by mariomike »

Offline Brihard

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Re: MPO vs CivPol Commissioned Officer
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2015, 14:11:58 »
More likely is paid-duties, since this is the first year that has been included for inclusion on to the sunshine list.

Sorry, I use the term interchangeably, but you're of course likely right. In my organization most of the OT I see is coming in and working for another watch that's undermanned, and that gets paid out at double since it's on a scheduled day off. But yeah, in a bigger urban centre paid duty likely accounts for much of it.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.