Author Topic: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)  (Read 671945 times)

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2550 on: May 17, 2019, 14:57:59 »
So weird question but why is there no F-15? Or perhaps more importantly why was it never part of the conversation?  What makes the F-18 so much more obvious a choice over the F-15 (which is also in the Boeing inventory).

Boeing doesn’t need Canada’s business to keep the F-15X line open.  It does for the Super Hornet (especially Block 3).

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2551 on: May 17, 2019, 15:01:44 »
Boeing doesn’t need Canada’s business to keep the F-15X line open.  It does for the Super Hornet (especially Block 3).

That’s not true.  The US Navy is rebuilding block 2s and buying new Block 3s. It only has 10 orders thus far for it’s F-15ex.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2552 on: May 17, 2019, 16:03:55 »
I think the problem with the F-15EX is that the Super Hornet is one of four fighters that were "pre-qualified" by the gov't last year to enter the competition (Rafale also was in but Dassault pulled it).  Presumably the gov't would have to agree to do the same for the new Eagle. That would just slow things down yet again.

Quote
Ottawa releases draft tender on purchase of new fighter jets
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/airforce-cf18-fighter-jet-replacement-f35-1.4882570

European fighter-jet manufacturer pulls out of Canadian competition to replace CF-18s
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-european-fighter-jet-manufacturer-pulls-out-of-canadian-competition-to/

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2553 on: May 17, 2019, 18:15:09 »
That’s not true.  The US Navy is rebuilding block 2s and buying new Block 3s. It only has 10 orders thus far for it’s F-15ex.

The F-15SA is considered F-15X.  What I told you came from people in the know (ie: Boeing).

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2554 on: May 17, 2019, 18:16:55 »
The F-15SA is considered F-15X.  What I told you came from people in the know (ie: Boeing).

Fair enough, good sir. Thanks for the info.

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2555 on: May 17, 2019, 18:22:12 »
Fair enough, good sir. Thanks for the info.

Just some amplification.

Boeing secured $50B+ already in contracts for the F-15SA/QA/X and only $4B for the Super Hornet Block 3.  The money for Boeing isn’t with the US Armed Forces but with foreign governments.  They want and need to secure the Block 3 line.

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2556 on: May 17, 2019, 19:03:42 »
Still need full House plus Senate, doubt there will be problems:

Quote
F-15EX could be delivered as early as 2020: Boeing
...
House Appropriations Defense Subcommittee [controlled by Democrats] included $986 million in a draft FY2020 budget for eight F-15EX aircraft to replace aging F-15C/Ds...
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/f-15ex-could-be-delivered-as-early-as-2020-boeing-458168/

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Offline Harrigan

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2557 on: May 18, 2019, 01:23:25 »
Of the main competitors (even including the F-15X), how do they stack up in terms of the need for new infrastructure, particularly in the north? 

I think that is an underreported issue with the whole new fighter project - most commentators focus on the cost of the aircraft and maintenance, and not the cost of new infrastructure necessary to operate them (possible longer runways, new FOLs, new AAR platforms, new security systems, etc).  I would imagine that some of the aircraft would fit into our existing sites better than others?

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2558 on: May 18, 2019, 09:18:35 »
Of the main competitors (even including the F-15X), how do they stack up in terms of the need for new infrastructure, particularly in the north? 

I think that is an underreported issue with the whole new fighter project - most commentators focus on the cost of the aircraft and maintenance, and not the cost of new infrastructure necessary to operate them (possible longer runways, new FOLs, new AAR platforms, new security systems, etc).  I would imagine that some of the aircraft would fit into our existing sites better than others?

My best guess is that the infrastructure bill is an approximate wash, regardless of the aircraft chosen. Others who have recently been to Cold Lake can probably attest that most everything there (building-wise) was built in the 1950s and is at the end of its life. The Physical security requirements will increase, dramatically.

Offline HB_Pencil

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2559 on: May 18, 2019, 10:36:06 »
Of the main competitors (even including the F-15X), how do they stack up in terms of the need for new infrastructure, particularly in the north? 

I think that is an underreported issue with the whole new fighter project - most commentators focus on the cost of the aircraft and maintenance, and not the cost of new infrastructure necessary to operate them (possible longer runways, new FOLs, new AAR platforms, new security systems, etc).  I would imagine that some of the aircraft would fit into our existing sites better than others?

We had an extended discussion of this a page earlier.

Offline suffolkowner

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« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 14:02:06 by suffolkowner »

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2561 on: May 18, 2019, 23:00:15 »
My best guess is that the infrastructure bill is an approximate wash, regardless of the aircraft chosen. Others who have recently been to Cold Lake can probably attest that most everything there (building-wise) was built in the 1950s and is at the end of its life. The Physical security requirements will increase, dramatically.

Anyone still in cold lake can look through the main shared drive folder (can’t remember if it’s J or otherwise) and find the next gen fighter PowerPoint folder. In there it has proposed locations for new hangars and support infrastructure in both Cold lake and Bagotville. Both locations aren’t hurting for space to build new buildings.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2562 on: May 18, 2019, 23:31:04 »
I think the bigger question is, will the infrastructure be ready in time for delivery of the new birds?
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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2563 on: May 18, 2019, 23:44:09 »
I think the bigger question is, will the infrastructure be ready in time for delivery of the new birds?


At the current rate we’re going in obtaining a new fighter........I kinda doubt it
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Re: The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)
« Reply #2564 on: May 19, 2019, 01:03:44 »
I think the bigger question is, will the infrastructure be ready in time for delivery of the new birds?

Well by comparison the F35 hangar in Miramar broke ground in Mar 2018 and is scheduled to be completed by Jan 2020. So figure around two-three years for one in cold lake taking winter into account.