Author Topic: Save Money and Get a Big Ship  (Read 25401 times)

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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #125 on: January 02, 2019, 18:54:23 »
Happy new year to everyone.
And now an interesting link to an article about Australian aircraft capabilities reached onboard their Canberra class LHDs.
I wish you like it.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/12/ship-shape-army-amphibious-air-operations-cleared-for-duty/

Offline Colin P

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #126 on: January 02, 2019, 21:33:31 »
Sigh nice to see the 'Adult" countries doing well.

Offline CBH99

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #127 on: January 02, 2019, 22:51:42 »
I know this has probably already been mentioned quite a few times in other threads, so forgive me...

But I was like 80% sure Australia operated Black Hawks, in addition to their other types? 

If the MRH-90 has been such a pain to get to this point, and is bloody expensive as both an airframe & in terms of maintenance... wouldn't the Seahawk be a good choice, given they already operate Black Hawks?


I'll probably edit this when I settle in a bit later tonight, just something that struck me.  Either way, a country that very much has a vision, a focus,  and a willpower to accomplish specific defense goals.  Adulting quite well.
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #128 on: January 02, 2019, 23:53:28 »
I know this has probably already been mentioned quite a few times in other threads, so forgive me...

But I was like 80% sure Australia operated Black Hawks, in addition to their other types? 

If the MRH-90 has been such a pain to get to this point, and is bloody expensive as both an airframe & in terms of maintenance... wouldn't the Seahawk be a good choice, given they already operate Black Hawks?

They do.  The Aus Army operates Black Hawks, MRH-90s and Tigers, the RAN operates SH-60R Seahawks, MRH-90s and may still be operating some S-70 Seahawks. 

Speaking of pain, good to know they finally (?) sorted out their issues with the Tiger.  It was a comedy of errors - from Wiki, first delivery was in 2004, end of delivery in 2010, planned FOC in 2011, actual FOC in 2016, and they're going to be replaced in mid-2020s partly b/c of maintenance cost and having to send parts to Europe for maintenance.
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Offline Fred Herriot

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #129 on: January 03, 2019, 10:04:44 »
Since we're now talking about the amphibious carriers that the Australians have, how about getting an Izumo-class DDH/CVH or two to act as flagships of both fleets?  Crew manning for the ship itself is about the same as any Iroquois-class DDH and if we get them with the modifications to fly F-35Bs, they could serve as extra decks for allied forces to use when necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izumo-class_helicopter_destroyer
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #130 on: January 03, 2019, 21:38:50 »
Happy new year to everyone.
And now an interesting link to an article about Australian aircraft capabilities reached onboard their Canberra class LHDs.
I wish you like it.

http://australianaviation.com.au/2018/12/ship-shape-army-amphibious-air-operations-cleared-for-duty/

Something about the Aussies that is humorous are the endless claims of "most complex in the world"; "best in the world"; "biggest in the world" etc.  Is this a "Down-Under" compensation issue?

Offline RDBZ

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #131 on: January 03, 2019, 23:05:51 »
Something about the Aussies that is humorous are the endless claims of "most complex in the world"; "best in the world"; "biggest in the world" etc.  Is this a "Down-Under" compensation issue?

To be fair, he’s comparing NH-90 and tiger in ADF service compared to other forces.  The ADF probably has pushed a lot harder than most of those countries.  There were some interesting statistics on equipment availability in the German armed forces recently.

Offline Baz

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #132 on: January 04, 2019, 10:42:11 »
Something about the Aussies that is humorous are the endless claims of "most complex in the world"; "best in the world"; "biggest in the world" etc.  Is this a "Down-Under" compensation issue?

I don't think it is limited to them.

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Offline JMCanada

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #133 on: February 04, 2019, 13:20:37 »
I know there is no intention to go for a 2nd MH. Nevermind, this is a nice article (would say it's propaganda also) about RN's Wildcats.
Not fully understand why they do not fit dipping sonar like Koreans do.
https://www.savetheroyalnavy.org/in-focus-the-wildcat-multi-role-helicopter-in-service-with-the-royal-navy/

Offline Ó Donnghaile

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #134 on: February 11, 2019, 10:04:24 »
Seems like the RN is on route to (re-)acquiring littoral vessels to enable and support special forces / Royal Marines:

Click Here
Quote
The UK is set to acquire two Littoral Strike Ships with the ability to launch troops and their equipment via helicopters and boats.

Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson has confirmed that the UK will purchase the vessels. Referring to the new new Littoral Strike Ships, Williamson said:

“These globally deployable, multi-role vessels will be able to conduct a wide range of operations, from crisis support to war-fighting.

They would support out future Commando force. They will be forward deployed at exceptionally high readiness and able to respond at a moments notice, bringing the fight from sea to land.


More on link...

I wonder how this would come about given the money juggling the MoD have been up to as of late and the reductions made to the Royal Marines (and their enabling elements) over the past 20-30 years.
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Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #135 on: February 11, 2019, 10:14:16 »
This is the bit that caught my eye (highlighted text) -

Quote
Britain will buy and adapt cargo ships or ferries to bring two new vessels into service which could rapidly respond to a crisis and carry out a range of operations, the Defence Secretary has announced.

....

"These globally deployable, multi-role vessels would be able to conduct a wide range of operations from crisis support to war fighting," he said.

"They would support our future Commando force, our world-renowned Royal Marines - they will be forward deployed at exceptionally high readiness and able to respond at a moment's notice - bringing the fight from the sea to land."

....

It is understood the Ministry of Defence (MoD) is considering using cargo ships or ferries, with the existing hulls converted and ultimately able to deploy assets from them including fast boats, landing craft, helicopters and special forces.

See Maersk, Point Class, Ocean Trader, US, Davie, Asterix.
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #136 on: February 11, 2019, 10:24:18 »
Seems like the RN is on route to (re-)acquiring littoral vessels to enable and support special forces / Royal Marines:

Click Here
I wonder how this would come about given the money juggling the MoD have been up to as of late and the reductions made to the Royal Marines (and their enabling elements) over the past 20-30 years.
Maybe the MOD is waking up to the fact that RN and its Marines are the best bang for their defence buck?

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #137 on: February 11, 2019, 14:38:48 »
Maybe the MOD is waking up to the fact that RN and its Marines are the best bang for their defence buck?

Re-discovering the policy of Alfred the Great, Hakluyt, Henry VIII and Samuel Pepys.

Not to mention the men that took the British Army into the European Wars of the 18th Century

Field Marshal de la Rochefoucauld
Maj Gen Jean Ligonier
Maj Gen Jean Cavalier

And in Canada, Britain's Lt Governor in Acadia, Jean-Paul Mascarene.

All four of them refugees from Louis XIVs France after the 1685 revocation of the edict of Nantes with the concurrent Dragonades, and from the area around Nimes outside of Marseilles.  Most of them escaped to Britain by way of Geneva and Holland.

Rochefoucauld was responsible for adding 10 regiments of foot in 1739/40, just before his death (44th to 53rd) - all of them brigaded to the Navy as marines.   That represented some 25% of the line infantry.

Curiously, for Canadians, this activity was concurrent with the activity of the Gallican priest, Abbe Le Loutre in Acadia, which ultimately led to the relocation of the Acadians.

Sorry for the ramble.
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Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #138 on: February 12, 2019, 09:34:59 »
The artist image of the RN ship looks quite similar to the Irving design they used to try and push Davie underwater, which was ( I gather) based on the US Point Class.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2019, 09:41:45 by Cloud Cover »

Offline Colin P

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #139 on: February 12, 2019, 10:23:28 »
Very different tasks though than the Astreix. I still take a Mistral over it.

Offline Chris Pook

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #140 on: February 12, 2019, 11:22:16 »
Half a loaf is better than none.  And even if the Mistral is baguette rather than a proper loaf I will still take a Bun over a non-existant baguette.

Floating warehouses with flat spots and loading docks that can be relocated easily while flying the Canadian flag are useful.  Off Newfoundland, in Cologne or Singapore or heading to Norway.

These beasts don't need the number of bodies the Mistrals and LPD(H)s require.
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Offline LoboCanada

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #141 on: February 12, 2019, 11:42:24 »
Agreed^.

Perhaps 4 arctic-ish versions of that support ship instead of 1 giant Diefenbaker? Plausible?

- Use it off the coast of where-ever else in the winter months.

- Use it to deliver supplies or relief to communities in the North.

- Floating hospital that makes a couple arctic tours up there. Paint one white and make it a permanent hospital ship

- Throw a SeaRam on it with some small arms and a couple UUVs for a sovereignty side benefit.

- Use it like a Point Class for sneaky stuff or disaster relief

Offline Colin P

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #142 on: February 12, 2019, 11:44:39 »
Mistral has a base crew about 160, that can expand depending on operations.

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #143 on: February 12, 2019, 13:26:13 »
Im not sure the RCN could contain themselves to 160. I am sure that the thing would be commanded by nothing less than a Captain (N), and then there is a Commodore staff to be embarked (yes, they would do that). 

Offline Colin P

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #144 on: February 12, 2019, 14:17:13 »
set up their cubicles in the boat well  8)

Offline Cloud Cover

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Re: Save Money and Get a Big Ship
« Reply #145 on: February 12, 2019, 14:32:01 »
Yes, to deal with the flood of work.
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