Author Topic: Want to release but course loaded  (Read 12492 times)

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Offline Murphy709

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Want to release but course loaded
« on: July 01, 2016, 09:29:51 »
Just got back from a 5 day tasking, during this time I have realized that he army isn't for me as I don't really like being away from my family. Although I am due to go away for the summer leaving on Sunday. But want to release and not have to go whatsoever. Is this possible? Thanks.

Offline Murphy709

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2016, 09:32:08 »
Reserve force might I add

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2016, 09:44:51 »
Monday morning, show up at your unit's regulating office or admin office (whatever they call the support cell of regular force personnel) and indicate you wish to stop training and release immediately.

They will advise you on forms to be filled and steps to be taken. Reservists have no set terms of service and are allowed to ask for a voluntary release any time they want.

I strongly suggest you bring with you all of the uniforms and equipment you may have been issued with so far, in order to be able to proceed to out routines without any delays.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2016, 09:48:33 »
To add to what OGBD said whatever you do, do NOT get talked into going on whatever course or tasking you're supposed to go on if you want to release. There's a good chance your unit will try and convince you to go because they probably think if you show up there you'll change your mind. It's also a lot less immediate paper work for them to just send you away on a task.

If you DO show up and immediately ask to quit and go home then you'll be wasting the staffs time (as well as your own) and creating more paperwork and crap for them to deal with.
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Offline RocketRichard

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2016, 10:11:51 »
Reserve force might I add
Hello.  The advice offered is sound. What brigade are you with?


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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2016, 10:15:17 »
Reserve force might I add

Change your mind about the Regular Force as well ?

I've recently been enrolled in the Inf. Reserves and was planning to stick with the reserves for a few years and try for a CT to RegF.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 10:53:25 by mariomike »

Offline Murphy709

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2016, 11:07:47 »
Yup I did change my mind actually. I'm proud of myself for giving it a fair go and sticking around for almost 2 years but it's just not what I want to do. Sorry that it doesn't please everyone else. Thanks for the info fellas.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2016, 14:16:05 »
It happens, you gave it a shot. Some come back and re-enroll in a few years, realizing they really did like it, some stay away. You're not the first or last.

Offline Murphy709

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Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2016, 19:24:07 »
I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home, I have put in a voluntary withdrawal and am waiting to leave. It's been days. I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time. I want to release from the CF as soon as I get out of here. Everyone I talk to on the course says there's nothing they can do but I have to keep training until it gets approved or disapproved. I can't keep doing this. I'm dying inside more and more everyday. Someone please give me some pointers how to speed this up if I can at all

Offline ballz

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2016, 19:27:32 »
Go see the Padre. I am not a praying man but they sure are handy to have around when a member's compassionate circumstances come up. And they have the ear of the Commanding Officer on all compassionate issues.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

Offline Murphy709

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2016, 19:31:57 »
Go see the Padre. I am not a praying man but they sure are handy to have around when a member's compassionate circumstances come up. And they have the ear of the Commanding Officer on all compassionate issues.
I already spoke to him, he's on my file but it hasn't got to the CO yet which sucks I just can't do this anymore I don't have another day in me let alone 5

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2016, 20:05:01 »
I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time.

I'm dying inside more and more everyday.

I just can't do this anymore I don't have another day in me let alone 5

Have you reached out to a health-care professional?

For reference, perhaps "Trying to get off a course and release" will be merged with the other VR discussion Murphy709 started,

Want to release but course loaded
http://milnet.ca/forums/index.php/topic,123469.msg1443057.html#msg1443057
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 10:12:00 by mariomike »

Offline ballz

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2016, 13:54:21 »
Have you reached out to a health-care professional?

That was my next question.

Go to the doctor and tell them the issues you're having. If you want, stop in and tell the Padre on your way that you are going to seek healthcare for mental health so that they are in the loop.

The paperwork can probably speed up, but more importantly the medical system can get you pretty much whatever they assess are your needs.

Also, every member can request to speak directly to their Commanding Officer, you can request it in the form of a memo. Honestly, it shouldn't be that cumbersome to voluntarily withdraw from a course.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
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Offline DAA

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2016, 14:50:40 »
Also, every member can request to speak directly to their Commanding Officer, you can request it in the form of a memo. Honestly, it shouldn't be that cumbersome to voluntarily withdraw from a course.

Yes, you can ask to speak directly with the CO but for someone undergoing initial occupation training, it's highly unlikely and the highest you might get to, is the OC level.

By their own admission "I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home."  If the death involved what is considered to be an "immediate" family member (ie; Mother, Father, Brother, Sister or spouses family member) the individual would probably have been granted Compassionate Leave already.

Once they start their DP1 training, they're pretty much committed to follow through until completion.  When a "Request for Release" has been submitted, they will still continue their training while the release application process runs it's course.  In most cases, the trainee comes to terms with the issues and carries on with their career in the CAF.   The reasoning behind the delays are probably intended to allow them time to reconsider their decision to quit.  This is not for our benefit but for that of the member.

I'm sure you can find many people in the CAF today, who tried or said they wanted to quit during their Basic or initial Occupation Training, received tough love or good counselling, stuck it out and are more than happy they did.

Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:
Got a question that you're afraid to ask online?  PM me!  I don't bite........

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2016, 16:41:44 »
Let`s not paint everyone with the same brush, though.

The poster is saying things that tell me he/she should be going to the next Sick Parade possible to talk to CF H Svcs professionals.  You've got to consider things about 'continuing on with trg' when a student's mental state is at question.  Is the candidate doing driver training (AFVs on highways during roadmoves, example)?  Live range practices?  Etc.  It can't be a cooker cutter decision.

I don't like how the CAF uses the "immediate family member" stuff as a filter.  Does the way someone might react to a death or serious injury link directly to it?  Nope.

My  :2c: is the member should report to sick parade or speak to the Duty MO if they can't wait until Monday.  Regardless of what we think, there is a duty to look after the mbr's welfare.

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 17:06:04 »
And has SFA to do with what the COA should be when people are heard/seen to be using some key/trigger phrases. 

Maybe you should limit your responses in areas such as this to your actual knowledge from experience in the CAF.  Being a Google Ninja isn't always helpful.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2016, 17:27:37 »
Maybe you should limit your responses in areas such as this to your actual knowledge from experience in the CAF.  Being a Google Ninja isn't always helpful.

That isn't a chip on my shoulder.  It's a fact.  Your 2 years in the militia XX years ago leaves you with no real, current experience in the CAF. 
If you find me pointing that out offensive or "a chip", well you'll have to ******' deal with that.  I call it how I see it.  Don't like it? Ignoring me is free of charge.

I don't post in the EMS threads, because I have no credible experience in that area.  Having dealt with suicidal/potentially suicidal recruits/young soldiers before, troops having issues that are causing them distress?  I have experience in that directly, and more than once from oh, about 1993 to very recently. 

If you have any other 'hurt feelings' type responses to me in this thread, send me a PM.   ::)
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2016, 17:52:21 »
 :facepalm:

Who said I was replying to anything you said in the first place?  Did you see DAAs post above mine?  Great, you suggested it first.  Take your pat on the back.  Who cares, as long the OP gets to talk to the people it appears he/she should talk to.  They can then make their assessment; not my gig.  I am not the suicide SME, I do have trg in suicide FA and experience (from before I had the course, unfortunately).

Why did I post the go sick parade, or call the Duty MO?  Simple; the poster can click on my profile and see I'm a current serving Air Force, ex-army type with XX years experience, and decide if my opinion is credible or not. 

Despite what you might wish, my post on here had nothing to do with you.  If you want to play  :slapfight:, do it on PMs.  For the respect for the site, as you say.
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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2016, 19:29:48 »
I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home, I have put in a voluntary withdrawal and am waiting to leave. It's been days. I'm depressed and cannot stop crying on my own time. I want to release from the CF as soon as I get out of here. Everyone I talk to on the course says there's nothing they can do but I have to keep training until it gets approved or disapproved. I can't keep doing this. I'm dying inside more and more everyday. Someone please give me some pointers how to speed this up if I can at all

Let me play devils advocate a little here.

Not too long ago you posted this
Quote
Just got back from a 5 day tasking, during this time I have realized that he army isn't for me as I don't really like being away from my family. Although I am due to go away for the summer leaving on Sunday. But want to release and not have to go whatsoever. Is this possible? Thanks.   

Followed by

Quote
Yup I did change my mind actually. I'm proud of myself for giving it a fair go and sticking around for almost 2 years but it's just not what I want to do. Sorry that it doesn't please everyone else. Thanks for the info fellas.

Now reading your latest post you ended up going on course anyways (ignoring my advice and others advice) and all of a sudden you have deaths in your non-immediate family and your whole life is exploding and you have to quit.


I'm not saying you're not being truthful, I'm sure you are, but just so you know your chain of command is going to look into those deaths (including calling the hospital, funeral home, etc..). and if it looks like you're making an excuse to quit (like the non-immediate death was a kid you played soccer with in grade 6) they're probably going to make it harder on you to rtu.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2016, 20:17:21 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline ballz

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 12:52:24 »
Yes, you can ask to speak directly with the CO but for someone undergoing initial occupation training, it's highly unlikely and the highest you might get to, is the OC level.

I hope what you meant to say is "the highest you might get to before the issue is resolved is the OC level," which of course, I would agree with as these kind of things are generally fairly easy to deal with once someone with some actual authority to do anything is brought into the loop.

If you were referring to the CoC, however, just throwing the memo in the garbage, or the CO saying "don't care, sort it out OC," well, I'm sorry that your experience has obviously shown you some pretty poor examples of leadership.

By their own admission "I'm on my dp1 course and am suffering from some non immediate family deaths back home."  If the death involved what is considered to be an "immediate" family member (ie; Mother, Father, Brother, Sister or spouses family member) the individual would probably have been granted Compassionate Leave already.

I'm also with EITS on this one on the use of "immediate family" member. It's not a bad rule of thumb, but luckily the leave manual leaves what is compassionate and what is not entirely up to the Commanding Officer.

EDIT: And perhaps the CO has already looked at it and determined it is not a significantly grievous situation. Who knows.

Once they start their DP1 training, they're pretty much committed to follow through until completion.  When a "Request for Release" has been submitted, they will still continue their training while the release application process runs it's course.  In most cases, the trainee comes to terms with the issues and carries on with their career in the CAF.   The reasoning behind the delays are probably intended to allow them time to reconsider their decision to quit.  This is not for our benefit but for that of the member.

I'm sure you can find many people in the CAF today, who tried or said they wanted to quit during their Basic or initial Occupation Training, received tough love or good counselling, stuck it out and are more than happy they did.

Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:

While I wish our recruiting process was better, it's not, and we end up with people in situations where they feel trapped by the machine. I don't know the OP, I'd prefer not to pass judgement on his/her individual circumstances and provide them with the direction they need. If they are not fit for service, and re-apply, and we take them back, shame on us. If only the machine could look inward at its own incompetence sometimes.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 13:00:16 by ballz »
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
- Helen Keller

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2016, 13:46:27 »
Cases such as this, tend to lead to a future application to the CAF.      :facepalm:

If they are not fit for service, and re-apply, and we take them back, shame on us.

Milpoints to both of you.  :)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 13:49:18 by mariomike »

Offline Murphy709

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2016, 16:45:16 »
Let`s not paint everyone with the same brush, though.

The poster is saying things that tell me he/she should be going to the next Sick Parade possible to talk to CF H Svcs professionals.  You've got to consider things about 'continuing on with trg' when a student's mental state is at question.  Is the candidate doing driver training (AFVs on highways during roadmoves, example)?  Live range practices?  Etc.  It can't be a cooker cutter decision.

I don't like how the CAF uses the "immediate family member" stuff as a filter.  Does the way someone might react to a death or serious injury link directly to it?  Nope.

My  :2c: is the member should report to sick parade or speak to the Duty MO if they can't wait until Monday.  Regardless of what we think, there is a duty to look after the mbr's welfare.
I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the frig out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #22 on: July 11, 2016, 16:50:02 »
I have spoken with 3 Padres, mental health people and told them how I was feeling they put me on 4 days excused duty. Had my PRB today and the committee recommends I stay for training. I just want to get the frig out of here before I hurt myself I'm so upset about this whole mess. I just hate everything here. No one I talk to has gotten me any further ahead.

Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?

Offline Murphy709

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Re: Trying to get off a course and release
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 17:02:27 »
Did you mention that to the "mental health people" you spoke to?
yes I have. I've tried every possible thing to get me out of here.

Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Want to release but course loaded
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2016, 17:18:47 »
Alright. I am confused and I don't get it.

This person claims to be a reservist.

A reservist cannot under any circumstances, other than an actual activation of the reserves by order of the Governor General or a duly signed class "C" contract, be forced to work or stay in the CF even one more day than  from the one he/she asks for release. Period. End of statement That is it.

ANY reservist on a course that indicates he/she wishes to release is absolutely and without any other delay or attempt at changing his/her mind, to bet R.T.U'd immediately. And his own unit is to process the release without any delays, unless there are disciplinary aspects to this we are not aware of.

Nothing else will do as reservists have no set duration of service and serve as volunteers at their own will.

I don't know if this person is telling us the truth, but if he/she is, then there is very serious potential for redress action against his chain of command at the training base ... or at his home unit if it is aware of the situation and not doing anything.

That's it and that's all. You cannot keep reservists against their will. All of this talk of death, near death, potential death in the family is irrelevant: Reservist said I want t quit the CF - That's it. Game over.

Murphy709: If what you indicate in these forum is true, then write on a piece of paper/memo form addressed to your course OC that you have indicated your wish to quit the CF to your course instructor on - indicate date  - but they refuse and he/she (the OC) refuses to process you back to your unit to process the release and that if he/she (the OC) does not take immediate corrective action in the next 24 hours, you will have no choice but file a complaint with the MP's for unlawful confinement.