Author Topic: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general  (Read 255289 times)

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Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #950 on: October 17, 2017, 13:49:06 »
A similar rule to including the word "Democratic" in the name of your country or organization?

Offline quadrapiper

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #951 on: October 17, 2017, 15:52:21 »
A similar rule to including the word "Democratic" in the name of your country or organization?
"People's" and variations thereof, too.

Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #952 on: October 20, 2017, 09:00:22 »
Here's a hint: if you have to include the word 'United' or 'Union' in the name of your country/ transnational organization, you're probably not. :)

That's a good discussion sparking comment;  how about our southerly neighbors?   :D
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Offline Colin P

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #953 on: October 23, 2017, 10:30:54 »
I always refer to them as 51 countries traveling in the same general direction.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #954 on: October 23, 2017, 14:31:53 »
I always refer to them as 51 countries traveling in the same general direction.

And the single, geo-physical, reason they are going in the same direction? Plate tectonics....  ;)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #955 on: October 23, 2017, 14:49:06 »
And the single, geo-physical, reason they are going in the same direction? Plate tectonics....  ;)

...except Hawaii...
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #956 on: October 23, 2017, 17:00:59 »
Niger is probably the latest wake up call for the Liberal brain trust. If anyone is going to go in there to do anything positive you would need to be ready, willing and able to bring out the big stick right away. Of course sending a mechanized battlegroup with air support isn't the message the Liberals want to send....
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline MarkOttawa

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #957 on: October 23, 2017, 18:57:03 »
An official tweet on a capability that might be welcome in Mali by MINUSMA:
https://twitter.com/CFOperations/status/922557801507049472

Quote
CAF Operations‏Verified account @CFOperations

Door gunners with the #OpIMPACT Tactical Aviation Detachment keep watch from a Griffon helicopter




4:18 PM - 23 Oct 2017

July 2016:

Quote
Canadian UN Peacekeeping in Mali? RCAF Helicopters?
https://cgai3ds.wordpress.com/2016/07/26/mark-collins-canadian-un-peacekeeping-in-mali-rcaf-helicopters/

Pity they might actually end up killing people, eh Justin?

Mark
Ottawa
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #958 on: October 23, 2017, 20:47:13 »
Niger is probably the latest wake up call for the Liberal brain trust. If anyone is going to go in there to do anything positive you would need to be ready, willing and able to bring out the big stick right away. Of course sending a mechanized battlegroup with air support isn't the message the Liberals want to send....

But then there's that pesky "African problems should be solved by Africans" issue...
WARNING: The consumption of alcohol may create the illusion that you are tougher,smarter, faster and better looking than most people.
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #959 on: October 23, 2017, 22:13:30 »
But then there's that pesky "African problems should be solved by Africans" issue...
.

Are we still discussing this? Can no one in government make a decision?
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #960 on: October 24, 2017, 08:51:35 »
An official tweet on a capability that might be welcome in Mali by MINUSMA:
https://twitter.com/CFOperations/status/922557801507049472

July 2016:

Pity they might actually end up killing people, eh Justin?

Mark
Ottawa

No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #961 on: October 24, 2017, 11:38:50 »
No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

Didn't notice that at first, can the pac4 be seen on thermal? I thought they were more for night ops, in which case I would assume that our heli's are grounded at night?
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #962 on: October 24, 2017, 12:11:23 »
An official tweet on a capability that might be welcome in Mali by MINUSMA:
https://twitter.com/CFOperations/status/922557801507049472

July 2016:

Pity they might actually end up killing people, eh Justin?

Mark
Ottawa


In general, Western politicians (and their countrymen) aren't very good at 'Arithmetic on the Frontier':


Arithmetic on the Frontier

by Rudyard Kipling

A GREAT and glorious thing it is
To learn, for seven years or so,
 The Lord knows what of that and this,
Ere reckoned fit to face the foe -
 The flying bullet down the Pass,
 That whistles clear: "All flesh is grass."

 Three hundred pounds per annum spent
On making brain and body meeter
 For all the murderous intent
Comprised in "villainous saltpetre".
 And after?- Ask the Yusufzaies
 What comes of all our 'ologies.

 A scrimmage in a Border Station-
A canter down some dark defile
 Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail.
 The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride,
 Shot like a rabbit in a ride!

 No proposition Euclid wrote
No formulae the text-books know,
 Will turn the bullet from your coat,
Or ward the tulwar's downward blow.
 Strike hard who cares - shoot straight who can
 The odds are on the cheaper man.

 One sword-knot stolen from the camp
Will pay for all the school expenses
 Of any Kurrum Valley scamp
Who knows no word of moods and tenses,
 But, being blessed with perfect sight,
 Picks off our messmates left and right.

 With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem.
The troopships bring us one by one,
 At vast expense of time and steam,
To slay Afridis where they run.
 The "captives of our bow and spear"
 Are cheap, alas! as we are dear.


http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_arith.htm

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #963 on: October 24, 2017, 16:50:03 »
No Pac4's on the door weapons, interesting.

PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #964 on: October 24, 2017, 17:54:06 »
PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

Need. Infantry. Translation.  :camo:
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #965 on: October 24, 2017, 17:56:34 »
Need. Infantry. Translation.  :camo:
.

Small words. Short sentences.
Freedom Isn't Free   "Never Shall I Fail My Brothers"

“Do everything that is necessary and nothing that is not".

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #966 on: October 24, 2017, 18:25:59 »
PAQ-4s are crap, almost 10x less power than a PEQ-2, which is what should be on the C6.

MilEME09, both the PAQ-4 and PEQ-2 are 830 nanometer (0.83 micron) wavelength, which is too close to visible to be seen on TI.  TI usually is out at 8 to 12 microns, or 8,000 to 12,000 nanometers.  Even mid-IR at 3-5micron won't 'see' a 0.83 micron beam.  NVDs/NVGs will see the PAQs/PEQs, because they usually have a pass filter that can see up to" around 1.063 micron (sometimes hear 1063 nanometers), which is the same frequency as laser target designators.

Cheers
G2G

Thanks G2G!  I'm not up on the latest in the laser designation world.  Just surprised they had no night fighting kit.

.

Small words. Short sentences.

Basically, so they can shoot at night with NVGs using an infrared designator.  Think laser beam similar to the Paq4 you would attach to a rifle that can be seen through your nvg. 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 18:29:14 by Humphrey Bogart »

Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #967 on: October 24, 2017, 18:27:43 »
PAQ-4 = Boulet.

PEQ-2 = Lowa

;)

Offline Loachman

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #968 on: October 24, 2017, 18:40:28 »
Just surprised they had no night fighting kit.

...installed during daylight hours.

After dark may be different.

I am not sure about current mission details.

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #969 on: October 24, 2017, 22:19:25 »
More info has come out on this mission and its classic mission creep.The original patrol was just that a patrol,then higher thought hey there is a HVT in the AO,lets send in the patrol to get him. The patrol was spotted and then the local elders tried to delay them as much as possible. After leaving they run into the ambush. There remains  the question of why the one hour delay for the patrol to request support ? The French responded with 2 Mirage fighters and a ground element of French special forces.Additional US SF arrived soon after and the wounded were evaced and the search for the MIA was launched. We have alot to learn from the French on how to fight in Africa.

Offline PuckChaser

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #970 on: October 24, 2017, 22:39:35 »
Do you have a link for that extra info?

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #971 on: October 26, 2017, 01:03:11 »
More info has come out on this mission and its classic mission creep.The original patrol was just that a patrol,then higher thought hey there is a HVT in the AO,lets send in the patrol to get him. The patrol was spotted and then the local elders tried to delay them as much as possible. After leaving they run into the ambush. There remains  the question of why the one hour delay for the patrol to request support ? The French responded with 2 Mirage fighters and a ground element of French special forces.Additional US SF arrived soon after and the wounded were evaced and the search for the MIA was launched. We have alot to learn from the French on how to fight in Africa.

Overweening ambition can take more lives than the enemy in some of these fights, sadly. Some rules to live by:

Never fight fair. Or on your own. That usually means fighting like the locals.

Never stick your own neck out when you can get a local to do it for you.

If it's worth hitting with a hammer, hit it with a really, really big hammer.

Keep one pocket full of candies to keep the kids hanging around so you can get information while making it less likely that they'll shoot at you. Keep some pepper in your other pocket for the dogs.

When in doubt, chicken out.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #972 on: October 26, 2017, 08:40:30 »
Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem.In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #973 on: October 26, 2017, 09:09:16 »
Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem.In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

Exactly. Someone in AFRICOM needs to be told 'you're fired'
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline Old Sweat

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #974 on: October 26, 2017, 09:12:29 »
To my mind, there are too many inconsistencies in the narrative, but one thing does come through: the affair was not up to a standard in planning and execution one would expect from special forces with or without the "O" word added.