Author Topic: Royal Canadian Air Force headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general  (Read 305792 times)

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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #975 on: October 26, 2017, 10:06:54 »
Unfortunately we keep making the same mistake in Africa with regard to mission creep.I think its arrogance as a substitute for sticking to tactics. The bad guys know the terrain and have local support,we enjoy neither in parts of the AO anyway.A patrol like that should have had drone UAV/RPA/UAS coverage and a QRF. Of course if you wait an hour to call for help thats part of the problem. In An urban setting like we faced in Mogadishu chasing after HVT's caused the whole fiasco in the first place.We either have to bide our time to grab a target or just take the target out with a drone UAV/RPA/UAS as we have done in Syria and Afghanistan.

FTFY
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #976 on: October 26, 2017, 16:56:43 »
To my mind, there are too many inconsistencies in the narrative, but one thing does come through: the affair was not up to a standard in planning and execution one would expect from special forces with or without the "O" word added.

The good idea fairy strikes again.
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #977 on: October 31, 2017, 00:07:57 »
Ottawa apparently out of touch with what the UN wants.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-un-peacekeeping-summit-contributions-1.4375711

Quote
Canadian peacekeeping proposals out of line with UN priorities: sources

Canada has been discussing peacekeeping contribution ideas with the United Nations for months, but sources tell CBC News many of the proposals Ottawa has presented aren't considered by the UN to be operational priorities — or even necessary.

The latest talks are being held just weeks before Canada hosts an international peacekeeping summit and more than a year after Ottawa first pledged up to 600 Canadian Armed Forces personnel and 150 police officers toward global peace operations.

But with the conference looming, even the UN isn't clear on how the country will contribute.

''It would be very awkward for anyone to host a ministerial meeting on peacekeeping without having made a real contribution to peacekeeping,'' said one UN official, who spoke to CBC News on condition of anonymity.

It's expected that most of those details will be unveiled either right before or at the two-day UN peacekeeping summit in Vancouver which begins on Nov. 14. More than 80 countries, including some 50 defence ministers, have so far confirmed their presence at the conference where Canada will also launch an initiative aimed at preventing the recruitment and use of child soldiers.

Gender parity will be a focus of the international gathering, as will ''capability gaps that need to be filled, such as rapid deployment, helicopters and francophone units'' a UN report says. South Sudan, Mali and Haiti are listed as missions currently dealing with critical gaps.

How will Canada contribute?

Several peacekeeping scenarios have been put forward by Ottawa, according to UN officials familiar with the talks.

One involves the offer of a C-130 Hercules to the UN's logistics hub in Entebbe, Uganda. The military aircraft could be used to help transport personnel and equipment to and from missions in South Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo and possibly Somalia. Ottawa is also looking at capacity-building and training for peacekeepers, such as countering the threat from improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

The UN seems less enthusiastic about some of the other options Ottawa is mulling, including helicopters for the mission in Haiti which other countries, including Bangladesh, have already offered, said another UN source.

The same UN source says a Canadian proposal for a rapid response force for the UN mission in Golan Heights isn't a priority right now, but were Canada to offer a rapidly-deployable infantry force that could help in the Central African Republic ''we would be happy with that."
Major need in Mali

Another country the UN considers a priority is Mali — but the peacekeeping operation there has the highest-number of fatalities of any current peacekeeping mission, a growing terrorist threat and a peace accord that the country is struggling to implement, which makes it an unattractive option for  decision-makers in Ottawa.

Mahamat Saleh Annadif, head of the UN stabilization mission in Mali (MINUSMA), has said he would welcome Canadian peacekeepers "with open arms."

Canada's contribution could involve multi-year commitments and in the case of Mali might only begin in 2019 after Germany and Jordan end their mandates in the West African country.

One of the UN sources says Canada has been asked to consider deploying personnel and equipment to Timbuktu.

''We'll see. I don't know if that message will be heard or not," the UN source said.

The UN and allies have been urging Canada to consider Mali, a country Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan visited in 2016.

''There were even rumours the next force commander might be a Canadian,'' said a third UN official, who was in Mali when Sajjan was there. The defence minister took part in several security briefings which the official said may have contributed to a reluctance to deploy.

If Ottawa does commit to the Mali operation, Canada's contribution could include the deployment of six Griffon and Chinook helicopters.

The peacekeeping summit in Vancouver is part of a push launched by the Obama administration in 2015 to get countries with more advanced soldiers and equipment into the field. It's paid off, but has also presented challenges as some countries have been reluctant to engage in high-risk operations.

''None of them want to risk losing a soldier,'' the official said, without suggesting this was the case with Canada.

Focus on child soldiers

Ahead of the Vancouver meeting, Canada has written to UN member states requesting they sign on to a set of 17 principles aimed at preventing the recruitment and use of child soldiers. The initiative, called the Vancouver Principles, was developed in co-ordination with the Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative and ''the child protection community,'' according to the Canadian letter.

''Children associated with armed forces or armed groups are often exposed to horrific violence — often forced both to witness and commit violence, while themselves being abused, exploited, injured, or even killed as a result,'' says an explainer accompanying the note, and a draft of the non-binding resolution.

It goes on to say that the principles could be put to work in several ways, including training for peacekeepers on how to interact with a child soldier, liaising with schools and orphanages to help prevent abductions, and adjusting patrol routes to include areas where at-risk children are known to live and play.


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Offline MCG

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #978 on: November 15, 2017, 21:53:08 »
I have not seen any discussion on the announcements from the peacekeeping conference in Vancouver, and I am away from home with only a smart phone to view the world.  Did the government actually say we would provide attack helicopters (if yes, does that mean we are buying attack helicopters), or did CBC apply some artistic licence? 

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #979 on: November 15, 2017, 21:56:21 »
I have not seen any discussion on the announcements from the peacekeeping conference in Vancouver, and I am away from home with only a smart phone to view the world.  Did the government actually say we would provide attack helicopters (if yes, does that mean we are buying attack helicopters), or did CBC apply some artistic licence?

Griffons with GAUs meet the definition of attack helicopters, apparently.
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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #980 on: November 15, 2017, 22:09:02 »
Ottawa apparently out of touch with what the UN wants.

I thought that Ottawa was out of touch with anything that is out of the realm of what can be imagined by a high school drama teacher who believes his own science fiction play. Guess I was wrong, he's only out of touch with the UN.  :dunno:

Now awaiting  :clubinhand:

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #981 on: November 15, 2017, 22:24:23 »
I thought that Ottawa was out of touch with anything that is out of the realm of what can be imagined by a high school drama teacher who believes his own science fiction play. Guess I was wrong, he's only out of touch with the UN.  :dunno:

Now awaiting  :clubinhand:

In Ottawa, right now we have:

1. A delusional single member party;

2. A party dedicated to dissolving the nation, but not too fast, since it gives them a fine paycheque and benefits in the interim;

3. A third party that has with few exceptions never considered itself as a potential government, but rather a hotbed of radicalism where there's no risk of ever having to implement its largely incoherent policy suite;

4. An opposition headed by a career politician who is best described as his predecessor without the sex appeal; and

5. A government headed by an individual even less intellectual than his faux intellectual father, guided and directed by a guy named "Butts".


It sounds like an unlikely episode of the Trailer Park Boys, except Bubbles would probably be a better PM, with Julian as minister of Public Works, Ricky as Health Minister, the late Jim Lahey as Public Security Minister, Randy as President of the Treasury Board, Lucy responsible for National Defence, and Cory and Trevor responsible for Canadian Heritage.
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Offline MCG

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #982 on: November 15, 2017, 22:56:56 »
Griffons with GAUs meet the definition of attack helicopters, apparently.
So we did promise attack helicopters?  Someone is going to be disappointed when they see a delta.

And the QRF - is that to be assigned to a particular AOR with a complement of AFV, or will it be a parachute company ready to respond to any part of Africa from wherever we park the Hercs?

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #983 on: November 15, 2017, 23:05:40 »
Given the undertone of "French Speaking", I expect 3 R22eR to start an aggressive recruiting campaign to increase their gender diversity.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #984 on: November 15, 2017, 23:25:47 »
Given the undertone of "French Speaking", I expect 3 R22eR to start an aggressive recruiting campaign to increase their gender diversity.

They've already got the 'species diversity' nailed down ;)
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Offline Hamish Seggie

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #985 on: November 16, 2017, 00:47:40 »
Griffons with GAUs meet the definition of attack helicopters, apparently.
:facepalm:
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #986 on: November 16, 2017, 05:42:31 »
Analysis by John Ivison in the NP. Frankly, we had this pegged way back when this thread was started:

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/john-ivison-self-congratulatory-trudeau-fails-to-live-up-to-his-un-peacekeeping-commitment

Quote
John Ivison: Self-congratulatory Trudeau fails to live up to his UN peacekeeping commitment
Even peacekeeping is now considered too dangerous for the Canadian Forces — we are happy to enable soldiers from emerging nations to take those risks

John Ivison
November 15, 2017
8:27 PM EST

For all the fine talk about the Liberal government “bringing Canada back to peacekeeping,” the calculation has always been how to minimize the commitment while still appearing to do something.

A seat on the United Nations Security Council in 2020 is at risk, after all.

The Prime Minster’s announcement at a peacekeeping conference in Vancouver was a typically self-congratulatory affair, but it is unlikely to have gone down as well with UN officials, who might have foolishly believed the 600 troops and 150 police pledged last year might end up bolstering an existing mission somewhere like Mali.

Instead, all they got was the offer of a Canada-based rapid-reaction force of up to 200 soldiers, a C-130 military transport plane to be based in Uganda and an unspecified number of armed helicopters.

There were add-ons for domestic consumption, such as the $15 million to help deploy more women on UN missions, new principles to prevent the recruitment of child soldiers and the ubiquitous promise of more training.

But the opposition’s calls last year to hold a parliamentary vote on a deployment to Africa now look faintly ridiculous.

At this point, there is no deployment. Even peacekeeping is now considered too dangerous for the Canadian Forces — we are happy to enable soldiers from emerging nations to take those risks.

As Trudeau put it, Canada will pioneer an innovative approach “showing the way to others through our capabilities and specialized skills.”

Retired major-general Lewis MacKenzie was not impressed by Trudeau’s “tap-dancing performance.”

“He had a lot of nerve to make that presentation. I found it so condescending to hear him say we’re going to throw money at the problem so other people can do the heavy lifting,” he said.

The military is unlikely to be happy either. Back in July 2016, Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Jonathan Vance said the army would be deploying to Africa “very soon.” That hasn’t happened and, as Vance knows well, armies that don’t deploy end up with low morale and even lower budgets.

The Liberals were faced with a dilemma and, as always in such situations, opted for the choice most likely to offer political advantage.

At the conference in Vancouver, Jean-Pierre Lacroix, the UN’s undersecretary-general for peacekeeping operations, said additional efforts are needed for the mission in Mali to fulfil its mandate. There are big gaps when it comes to helicopters and armed personnel carriers to support the 15,000 troops from Burkino Faso, Bangladesh, Chad and Senegal.

At the same time, it’s highly dangerous, with insurgent groups targeting peacekeepers. Of the 170 killed while serving on UN missions since the beginning of 2013, 86 were in Mali.

It’s clear Canada could do a job there. We may yet. But Trudeau is probably correct in judging it politically toxic for even one Canadian soldier to come home in a body bag. The Dutch defence minister was forced to resign last month after two troops died in a training exercise in Mali.

“Risk is acceptable if the cause is just. I’m not sure how you drag a just cause out of Mali,” said MacKenzie.

Mali and South Sudan are probably best avoided.

But there’s enough misery in the world for Canada to find an honourable role protecting civilians in a country like Central African Republic, where the UN also has a mission.

The Liberals used to have a leader in Michael Ignatieff who advocated the responsibility-to-protect doctrine the UN later adopted. “We should have the guts to stand by it when the going gets tough,” he once said.

The current crop of Liberal leaders have a more cautious approach.

Trudeau concluded his speech by saying Canada will lead institutional change on peacekeeping at the UN and be “agents of peace in a world that sorely needs it.”

But what can we really teach the world about peacekeeping? There hasn’t been a Canadian military unit rotated in a UN peace operation since 2001; the number of uniforms committed to missions is the lowest in 40 years.

No matter how many times Trudeau says his government will live up to its promise to deploy 600 Canadian Forces personnel and 150 police “over time,” it’s clear that Canada has not lived up to its commitments.

The Irish and Norwegians competing for that Security Council seat in three years will be cheered by the news.

• Email: jivison@nationalpost.com | Twitter:

Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #987 on: November 16, 2017, 12:38:36 »
Meanwhile the adults were discussing this:

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/UN_UNITED_NATIONS_CENTRAL_AFRICAN_REPUBLIC?SITE=TXNEW

UN votes to add 900 peacekeepers in Central African Republic

 UNITED NATIONS (AP) -- The U.N. Security Council unanimously approved a resolution Wednesday increasing the U.N. peacekeeping force in conflict-torn Central African Republic by 900 soldiers to a total of 11,650 military personnel.

The resolution comes at a time when the impoverished country, known as CAR, faces growing communal tensions, spreading violence and a deteriorating humanitarian situation.

France's U.N. Ambassador Francois Delattre, who sponsored the resolution, said that with deteriorating security and increasing humanitarian needs, the Security Council "cannot afford to take the risk of allowing CAR to relapse into a crisis as tragic as the one in which it was mired between early 2012 and early 2014."

Central African Republic has been wracked by violence between Muslims and Christians since predominantly Muslim Seleka rebels overthrew the Christian president in March 2013 and seized power.

Anti-Balaka militias, mostly Christians, fought back, resulting in thousands of deaths, the displacement of hundreds of thousands more, and the flight of many Muslims to the country's north and across the border into Chad and Cameroon.

Despite peaceful elections in early 2016, sectarian violence has moved into the impoverished country's central and southeastern regions, prompting warnings of a national conflict roaring back to life.

The Security Council resolution condemns "in the strongest terms incitement to ethnic and religious hatred and violence and the multiple violations of international humanitarian law and the widespread human rights violations and abuses."

These include sexual and gender-based violence committed by ex-Seleka and anti-Balaka supporters and other militia groups, as well as the targeting of civilians from specific communities, it said.

The council called the humanitarian situation "dire" and said more than 600,000 people displaced in CAR and nearly 500,000 refugees in neighboring countries need aid.

It also emphasized that the current security situation "provides a conducive environment for transnational criminal activity, such as that involving arms trafficking and the use of mercenaries, as well as a potential breeding ground for radical networks."

The peacekeeping mission in Central African Republic, known as MINUSCA, is one of the U.N.'s most dangerous missions with 12 peacekeepers killed so far this year. MINUSCA also had the most sexual misconduct allegations against peacekeepers and U.N. personnel last year.

The resolution extends the mandate of MINUSCA until Nov. 15, 2018. It calls on peacekeepers to prioritize the protection of civilians, support efforts to promote peace, and facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid.

It calls on Secretary-General Antonio Guterres to maximize MINUSCA's use of new rapidly deployable military units and to enhance its capabilities to gather "timely, reliable and actionable information on threats to civilians."

The council expressed "grave concern" at continuing allegations of abuse by peacekeepers in CAR, though it noted a reduction this year. It urged prompt and transparent investigations and called for alleged perpetrators to be held accountable.

The United States has been seeking to cut the costs of U.N. peacekeeping operations and there was concern that it might oppose adding 900 troops to MINUSCA, but the U.S. joined the 14 other council members in supporting the resolution.

U.S. deputy ambassador Michele Sison praised MINUSCA's work, including protecting thousands of Muslims trapped on the grounds of a church in Bangassou, and said the Trump administration believes the mission "is headed in the right direction."

The U.S. believes the additional troops will give MINUSCA "the necessary flexibility to address emerging threats and to fulfill its protection of civilians mandate," she said.

Sison said the United States is committed to supporting "focused, effective peacekeeping missions" that carry out their mandates and create conditions "to improve the lives of the people they have come to serve."

Offline YZT580

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #988 on: November 16, 2017, 13:44:40 »
From what I've read, the QRF will be Canada based which, given our transport facilities for equipment sort of deletes the Q from the title. 

Offline MCG

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #989 on: November 16, 2017, 14:52:01 »
From what I've read, the QRF will be Canada based which, given our transport facilities for equipment sort of deletes the Q from the title. 
I have seen that now too. If we really intend that it will be quick, that probably means we plan on it being an airborne company group. I struggle to imagine a scenario for which it is appropriate to rapidly launch a light company to the rescue from Canada, while at the same time is of a scale manageable by a light company (with out said company taking a fairly significant beating in the process).

I can think of a few times in Afghanistan where a light force, reinforcing within hours of a problem flaring, was able to stabilize a situation. But a situation that required rescue of a force that was able to hold its ground and wait a few days, that was a situation that needed a Canadian mechanized combat team to bring about amelioration.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #990 on: November 16, 2017, 15:55:38 »
I have seen that now too. If we really intend that it will be quick, that probably means we plan on it being an airborne company group. I struggle to imagine a scenario for which it is appropriate to rapidly launch a light company to the rescue from Canada, while at the same time is of a scale manageable by a light company (with out said company taking a fairly significant beating in the process).

I can think of a few times in Afghanistan where a light force, reinforcing within hours of a problem flaring, was able to stabilize a situation. But a situation that required rescue of a force that was able to hold its ground and wait a few days, that was a situation that needed a Canadian mechanized combat team to bring about amelioration.

Quote
Jacob Zuma: 13 South African soldiers killed in CAR
25 March 2013
 From the section Africa

Thirteen South African soldiers were killed in the Central African Republic as rebels seized the capital over the weekend, President Jacob Zuma has said.

Mr Zuma said the South Africans had died in a nine-hour "high-tempo battle" against the "bandits" in Bangui.
South Africa had about 200 troops stationed in the city to block Seleka rebels from seizing power.
Ousted CAR leader Francois Bozize has fled to neighbouring Cameroon, officials there have announced.

More at link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-21923624

I read extensively about the above engagement when it happened.  The South African Base in the CAR was essentially overrun and multiple sources said that every available military aircraft in South Africa was put on standby.  The French ended up coming to the rescue, reinforcing the Airport they had control of and the South Africans were allowed to exit the country at the French controlled airport.

I have seen that now too. If we really intend that it will be quick, that probably means we plan on it being an airborne company group. I struggle to imagine a scenario for which it is appropriate to rapidly launch a light company to the rescue from Canada, while at the same time is of a scale manageable by a light company (with out said company taking a fairly significant beating in the process).

I can think of a few times in Afghanistan where a light force, reinforcing within hours of a problem flaring, was able to stabilize a situation. But a situation that required rescue of a force that was able to hold its ground and wait a few days, that was a situation that needed a Canadian mechanized combat team to bring about amelioration.


The South African unit above was also an Airborne Company Group.  Doesn't matter when you come up against 3000 heavily armed rebels.

Offline MCG

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #991 on: November 16, 2017, 17:35:55 »
More at link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-21923624
The South African unit above was also an Airborne Company Group.  Doesn't matter when you come up against 3000 heavily armed rebels.
Those South Africans did well, and they did well because they were on the ground when the requirement arose (much like our Airborne Regiment was on the ground in Cyprus when the requirement arose). If we were to forward deploy an airborne company with dedicated airframes, I would say it has a role.  Parked in Canada where it will take a weekend just to get itself into the fight, the company will be an organization that would have been too late to help in the "over the weekend" example you site.



« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 17:38:35 by MCG »

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #992 on: November 16, 2017, 20:15:50 »
MCG:

When I was a very junior dip in Islamabad 1975-77 our defence attaché's sergeant (a good friend--very sharp, eventually helped much with the ExtAff admin. of a pretty complex embassy and later got commissioned in Canada) had been at Nicosia airport in 1974 facing down the Turks:
https://lermuseum.org/1946-to-present/1965-1979/canadian-airborne-regiment-and-the-defence-of-nicosia-airport-july-1974/

Mark
Ottawa
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 20:22:00 by MarkOttawa »
Ça explique, mais ça n'excuse pas.

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #993 on: November 16, 2017, 20:35:00 »
Truth be told I have not listened to a word of the Peacekeeping announcement from our government due to my inability to listen to the inane BS without vomiting. The absolute fantasy land that these people are living in is astounding and I honestly don't know how General Vance can look in the mirror at night.

Rapid Reaction Force. How in gods earth will this be rapid? How many kitted and spurred soldiers can the C17's carry? How will they be resupplied? How heavy will the weapon load out be? How many C17's will even be available? How many Hercs?

Attack Helicopters. So a Griffon with a door gunner and a GPMG is an attack helicopter now? I'm sure the aircrew tasked with this unicorn will be oh so happy with that.

UN Command and Control. You would think that after the pain and heartache of Rwanda that the old hands of the Liberal Party would not want to go through that again. But maybe the smart people of the PMO don't need to listen to the old hands because, you know its 2017.

But then again this entire exercise has been so vapid, so air fairy, so god damn stupid that I hope the government keeps kicking this "Canada's Back in Peacekeeping" can down the road until its gashed with all the other feel good blather that is the legacy of this PM. 

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #994 on: November 16, 2017, 21:23:34 »
Truth be told I have not listened to a word of the Peacekeeping announcement from our government due to my inability to listen to the inane BS without vomiting. The absolute fantasy land that these people are living in is astounding and I honestly don't know how General Vance can look in the mirror at night.

Rapid Reaction Force. How in gods earth will this be rapid? How many kitted and spurred soldiers can the C17's carry? How will they be resupplied? How heavy will the weapon load out be? How many C17's will even be available? How many Hercs?

Attack Helicopters. So a Griffon with a door gunner and a GPMG is an attack helicopter now? I'm sure the aircrew tasked with this unicorn will be oh so happy with that.

UN Command and Control. You would think that after the pain and heartache of Rwanda that the old hands of the Liberal Party would not want to go through that again. But maybe the smart people of the PMO don't need to listen to the old hands because, you know its 2017.

But then again this entire exercise has been so vapid, so air fairy, so god damn stupid that I hope the government keeps kicking this "Canada's Back in Peacekeeping" can down the road until its gashed with all the other feel good blather that is the legacy of this PM.

We should call it 'OPERATION PAPER TIGER'

If we type it in caps all time it will sound more authoritative. ;)
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline medicineman

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #995 on: November 16, 2017, 21:30:32 »
We should call it 'OPERATION PAPER TIGER'

If we type it in caps all time it will sound more authoritative. ;)

I was thinking more along the way of OP FORNICATE FIDO...but PAPER TIGER (or PUDDY CAT) is OK too.

MM
MM

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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #996 on: November 16, 2017, 23:31:41 »
Those South Africans did well, and they did well because they were on the ground when the requirement arose (much like our Airborne Regiment was on the ground in Cyprus when the requirement arose). If we were to forward deploy an airborne company with dedicated airframes, I would say it has a role.  Parked in Canada where it will take a weekend just to get itself into the fight, the company will be an organization that would have been too late to help in the "over the weekend" example you site.

They did very well, despite being totally hung out by their government.  The ground force commander had been requesting heavier armoured vehicles, rooivalk attack helicopters, etc for months and when crap finally hit the fan, the Generals and Politicians were caught with their pants down. 


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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #997 on: November 16, 2017, 23:41:22 »
the Generals and Politicians were caught with their pants down.

... and no doubt it was the troops that got the spanking
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline MilEME09

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #998 on: November 16, 2017, 23:53:13 »
Sounds like to me like out CAST commitment to NATO, how damn rapid can a reaction force parked in Canada be, even if in the best scenario I'd say 12H before they are organized to leave. 8-12 hours flying, a couple hours to get organized on the ground. By the time they can be of any use the situation on the ground might be way out of their ability.
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Offline Humphrey Bogart

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Re: Canadian Army headed to mission in Africa ‘very soon’: top general
« Reply #999 on: November 17, 2017, 00:05:09 »
... and no doubt it was the troops that got the spanking

13 killed, 27 wounded, 1 missing in action.  Company fought until they ran low on ammo and were able to organize a ceasefire and hightailed it out with French help.