Author Topic: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget  (Read 16768 times)

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Online Inspir

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2017, 09:44:27 »
And once again I found myself looking at the comments section in the article.  :brickwall:

Joe Public really has no clue

Offline gryphonv

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2017, 10:03:44 »
And once again I found myself looking at the comments section in the article.  :brickwall:

Joe Public really has no clue

First mistake was reading the comments section in a CBC article.

Offline Dimsum

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2017, 12:44:22 »
Good Point. I try to block out the memories of those.

I think everyone does. 

I toured the USS Missouri a while back and noticed that they had a display Chemox (or something like it) as part of the tour.  I shuddered a bit.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2017, 19:03:31 »
Ever wear Chemox......?  Something else to consider.

Did a set of workups near the end of the life of the chemox units. By the end of the (five?) weeks, there were about a half dozen guys with medical chits where they weren't allowed to wear the chemoxes unless it was a real emergency.  They were hacking up lungs and generally having a hard time breathing; even ST didn't question it as these were the same guys that were the first ones in bunker gear every time, but there were legitimate concerns about their health.  There was a whole raft of CF 98s filled out at the end to make sure they (and a bunch of other people with concerns) had it on their file in case it came up later in life. 

Also, I know Deuce from sailing with him.  This situation was pretty shitty; he got tagged by some as part of the sick lame and lazy crowd with NATO knees, but he had a legitimate reaction to something in the air and you could see it get worse the longer he stayed in the ship.  He was a pretty good guy (for a MARS officer!) so was sad to watch.

One thing I don't get about some of the ships is people are terrified to take a bit of diluted bleach to something that may be moldy and clean it up.  You can't really go anywhere, so I'd rather smell some bleach for a while then stare at moldy growths.  No heavily compartmentalized steel box is going to have a perfect HVAC system, so there will always be some areas where moisture collects and can lead to mold and mildew.  As long as you keep an eye open and clean it up as soon as it starts, it's manageable.  Its when it's in the trunking where it becomes a big problem, and that's a hugely labour intensive and expensive work with generally a lot of interference items, so it's a 60M for a reason.

Offline sailoraye123

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Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2017, 14:18:12 »
I just read another article about a sailor being sick for a whole sail, throwing up, having respiratory problems etch. How are these problems being dealt with now? What is being done for the sailors who are living in these conditions are they being compensated? Or is this another classic example of the boy who cried wolf and the mold doesn't exist??

Offline SeaKingTacco

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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2017, 15:04:16 »
I just read another article about a sailor being sick for a whole sail, throwing up, having respiratory problems etch. How are these problems being dealt with now? What is being done for the sailors who are living in these conditions are they being compensated? Or is this another classic example of the boy who cried wolf and the mold doesn't exist??

I have personally seen mould on ships.

That said, there are lots of mundane, run of the mill reasons (ship motion; lack of sleep; hundreds of people in a small closed space) why people get sick at sea.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2017, 16:39:42 »
I have personally seen mould on ships.

That said, there are lots of mundane, run of the mill reasons (ship motion; lack of sleep; hundreds of people in a small closed space) why people get sick at sea.

You left "MARS officers' personalities" off the list...
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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 10:20:24 »
We had a young guy on the Cutters, 1 week into the patrol we had to put him ashore as he became so seasick he could not function, eat or hold anything down. Some people cannot handle the motion due to inner ear issues.

Offline sailoraye123

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2017, 10:42:15 »
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1517443-corroded-steel-replaced-on-two-warships....      yet another article claiming mould is on all frigates and this military analyst who was a naval commander states that 'The rust problem is linked to mould reportedly discovered in all of Canada’s frigates' why haven't they fixed the ventilation/ mould problem after refit?

      Are they not concerned on the long term health of all sailors exposed to mould on a daily basis from their work environment? Is anything being done about this?

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2017, 11:01:03 »
http://thechronicleherald.ca/novascotia/1517443-corroded-steel-replaced-on-two-warships....      yet another article claiming mould is on all frigates and this military analyst who was a naval commander states that 'The rust problem is linked to mould reportedly discovered in all of Canada’s frigates' why haven't they fixed the ventilation/ mould problem after refit?

      Are they not concerned on the long term health of all sailors exposed to mould on a daily basis from their work environment? Is anything being done about this?

Some of the problem is the tiles used on the decks, hoses leak, a bale gets bumped and we have water on the deck. Its gets under the tiles and years later the deck gets replaced. Seamless decking would be better. Mold and moisture is a problem but not causing all the corrosion problems.
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Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2017, 11:16:07 »
This is separate from the HVAC issue (where you would get mould from inadequate ventilation letting moisture build up). Like Chief Stoker said, you get cracks on the tile deck, water pools on the steel below, and eventually rusts through. That tends to take years though. Under the tile is an underlay product that is about an inch thick, and is a bit like a flexible cement. It provides some insulation and flexes with the steel as the ship goes through the water, but breaks down over time.  This isn't specific to the frigates and is a normal thing we've seen on our other ships, and our allies deal with as well.

One thing they are doing now is being more aggressive with identifying and repairing minor tile issues when they come up, as they want to do small repair frequently instead of big show stopping ones every so often.  They are also adapting some of the underlays for water prone areas but that takes time to roll out through the fleet.

Seamless decking is better for some areas; but it has it's own drawbacks as well. When you redo it you can't really patch it as well, so it can be big job to fix a crack. It also weighs more, which doesn't sound like much, but can start affecting your stability if it's in big areas above your center of gravity.

Offline Chief Stoker

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2017, 11:18:42 »
This is separate from the HVAC issue (where you would get mould from inadequate ventilation letting moisture build up). Like Chief Stoker said, you get cracks on the tile deck, water pools on the steel below, and eventually rusts through. That tends to take years though. Under the tile is an underlay product that is about an inch thick, and is a bit like a flexible cement. It provides some insulation and flexes with the steel as the ship goes through the water, but breaks down over time.  This isn't specific to the frigates and is a normal thing we've seen on our other ships, and our allies deal with as well.

One thing they are doing now is being more aggressive with identifying and repairing minor tile issues when they come up, as they want to do small repair frequently instead of big show stopping ones every so often.  They are also adapting some of the underlays for water prone areas but that takes time to roll out through the fleet.

Seamless decking is better for some areas; but it has it's own drawbacks as well. When you redo it you can't really patch it as well, so it can be big job to fix a crack. It also weighs more, which doesn't sound like much, but can start affecting your stability if it's in big areas above your center of gravity.

Keeping a good sealer on it helps too and of course keeping your hoses tight and in good repair.
"When your draught exceeds your depth, you are most assuredly aground"

All opinions stated are not official policy of the CF and of a private individual

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Offline PPCLI Guy

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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2017, 13:47:41 »
You left "MARS officers' personalities" off the list...

Ummm...they generally don't have personalities
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Offline kratz

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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2017, 14:47:14 »
/ off topic

Ummm...they generally don't have personalities

I don't know. Away from work, some of my best stories involve MARS officers, among other trades.  :whistle:

/off topic
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Re: Another article about mold on frigates..
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2017, 14:51:48 »
Ummm...they generally don't have personalities

Does "almost sociopathic hatred for all who are junior than themselves" count as a personality trait? 

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Offline dapaterson

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2017, 15:33:29 »
Don't sell them short.   The only ones they hate more than their juniors are their peers.
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Offline FSTO

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2017, 16:57:17 »
Don't sell them short.   The only ones they hate more than their juniors are their peers.

Its all a smoke screen. We save our real hatred for the Army.  ;D

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2017, 17:29:16 »
Its all a smoke screen. We save our real hatred for the Army.  ;D

Huh. I could have sworn that honour belonged to the embarked Air Detachment.

Offline FSTO

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2017, 17:37:28 »
Huh. I could have sworn that honour belonged to the embarked Air Detachment.

We envy your sleeping ability. But we realize you guys are the red headed step children of the RCAF and we would love to bring you back into the fold where you belong.

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2017, 17:55:23 »
Trust me- we would love to come back.

Offline Navy_Pete

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2017, 20:12:04 »
Keeping a good sealer on it helps too and of course keeping your hoses tight and in good repair.

Both are true; I was thinking more of the mid deck cracks that can develop over time.  There are a number of different products as well; whatever black rubbery one they put under the steam kettles in the galleys is holding up great.  The USN has a standard one that comes in lots of colours, but tends to crack and need replaced relatively often. A properly applied tile (that people don't walk on in the cure period) lasts really long with some minor repairs, and some of the inserted deck designs look awesome, but if you don't stay on top of any cracked tiles, or otherwise do minor maintenance to the tile and underlay as required then you can't really complain I guess. I think if we went with the underlay it would look great for a bit, then some numpty trying to get promoted would either try and bring in a lower cost alternative or defer repairs in an effort to get promoted by saving money (it can be quite a bit more expensive).

The catch basin under the hoses is another problem area, as you can never get all the water out and it gets stuck under the AFFF barrels, so everytime you break a hose to drain it after it was charged salt accumulates there and turns it into a rust bucket. We went around tried at least rinsing them with fresh water following work ups to get rid of some of the salt crystals but don't know if it made any real difference.

Offline sailoraye123

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Re: The navy is broke,' says former sailor over maintenance budget
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2017, 01:20:14 »
Do you honestly think its only on the floor, sure that could be one of the causes... look up.. its crazy how much mold you will see in the flats of the ships... but hey that's what night flat parties are for when everybody is sleeping paint over the mold with a fresh layer of paint breaking the pores making it worst... no wonder that poor Lt was medically released.. funny veterans affair are paying him, but yet theres no problem and its not related to ships as the mold problem on ships has been rectified