Author Topic: Worldwide Submarine Threat  (Read 4862 times)

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Offline Gobsmacked

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Worldwide Submarine Threat
« on: September 07, 2016, 13:37:18 »

I'm sure the Politicians Hot Air will continue to protect our Arctic waters with a 'heat shield'.  :gloomy:
While prepared with a Canadian Focus, this 8 page 'cover focus' article clearly shows that the western nations need to take heed of the requirement for a renewed focus on ASW assets.
Especially both SSN / SSK Submarines and Maritime Helicopters.
Something The UK should also take note of with an Inadequate 7 Austute SSN and just 30 overworked / Overtasked HM2 Merlins for both ASW & AEW - when each of the 2 QE-class CVs requires Minimum 13 (9 ASW / 4 AEW) each, plus 5 in Maint & some for Trng (both ASW/AEW) & SSBN Protection & 6 req'd for small Type 23/26 Frigate ships flights.  Can anybody say QE carrier sinking on the horizon?
 :endnigh:

http://defence.frontline.online/article/2016/4/5207-Submarine-Proliferation-and-Impact-for-Canada

http://defence.frontline.online/interactive/16def4-3d/html5/index.html?page=1
Don't bother with ATI, by time u finally get redacted info its way out of date.
Dedicated to providing Verified Accurate Information.
But whats the point?
You get screwed in the end by GoC.
Tired of Disengeneous, Incompetent and UnEthical Procurement Officials and Military Officers involved in Major Equipment Procurement at PWGSC and DND.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2016, 15:39:16 »
This is an interesting idea to counterpoint the opening article: a robot ship with a parasail mounted sensor pack. The use of a parasail on any ship to raise sensors and communication antenna will certainly increase the range and ability of the ship to sense and control an area. Video on link

http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2016-10-24

Quote
ACTUV Unmanned Vessel Helps TALONS Take Flight in Successful Joint Test
Prototype low-cost, elevated sensor mast carrying ISR payload greatly extends radar, sensor, and radio ranges at modest altitude

OUTREACH@DARPA.MIL
10/24/2016
Image Caption: DARPA’s Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel (ACTUV) program has developed and built a technology demonstration vessel that is currently undergoing open-water testing off the coast of California and recently set sail with its first payload: a prototype of a low-cost, elevated sensor mast developed through the Agency’s Towed Airborne Lift of Naval Systems (TALONS) research effort. Click below for high-resolution image.


DARPA’s Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel (ACTUV) program has developed and built a technology demonstration vessel that is currently undergoing open-water testing off the coast of California and recently set sail with its first payload: a prototype of a low-cost, elevated sensor mast developed through the Agency’s Towed Airborne Lift of Naval Systems (TALONS) research effort.

ACTUV seeks to lay the technical foundation for an entirely new class of ocean-going vessel—one able to traverse thousands of kilometers over the open seas for months at a time, without a single crew member aboard. Potential missions include submarine tracking and countermine activities. Towed behind boats or ships, TALONS could persistently carry intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance (ISR), and communications payloads of up to 150 pounds between 500 and 1,500 feet in altitude—many times higher than current ships’ masts—and greatly extend the equipment’s range and effectiveness.

The demonstration took place over two days with 90 minutes of flight each day. The TALONS prototype started out from its “nest” installed on the back of the ACTUV vehicle. It then expanded its parachute and rose to an altitude of 1,000 feet, where it tested its onboard sensors and communications equipment. Once the test was complete, the prototype reeled itself in back to the nest. The entire process took place as the ACTUV vehicle maneuvered at operationally realistic speeds.

While aloft, TALONS demonstrated significant improvements to the range of the sensors and radios it carried compared to mounting them directly on a surface vessel. For example, TALONS’ surface-track radar extended its range by 500 percent—six times—compared to its range at sea level. Its electro-optical/infrared scanner doubled its observed discrimination range. The TALONS team plugged in a commercial handheld omnidirectional radio; that radio’s range more than tripled.

“I was delighted to explore the possibility of hosting TALONS on ACTUV and from my perspective, the testing could not have gone better,” said Scott Littlefield, DARPA program manager for ACTUV. “We just started at-sea testing of ACTUV in June, and until now we've been focused on getting the basic ship systems to work. TALONS was our first chance to demonstrate hosting a real payload and showing the versatility of ACTUV to do a wide variety of missions for which it wasn't originally designed.”

“TALONS showed the advantages of using a low-cost add-on elevated sensor to extend the vision and connectivity of a surface asset and ACTUV demonstrated its ability as a flexible and robust payload truck,” said Dan Patt, DARPA program manager for TALONS. “This demonstration was an important milestone in showing how clever use of unmanned systems could cost-effectively provide improved capabilities.”

Both Patt and Littlefield commended the teams collaborating on the demonstration for accomplishing the testing in a remarkably short period of time: less than 90 days from the go-ahead decision to the actual demonstration. The team members including Maritime Applied Physics Corporation and the Naval Surface Warfare Center Carderock Division (NSWCC) for TALONS, and the U.S. Navy Space and Naval Warfare Systems Command-Pacific (SSC-PAC) and Leidos for ACTUV.

“This ACTUV/TALONS demonstration is the latest in DARPA’s history of cross-program collaboration to develop breakthrough technologies for national security,” said Brad Tousley, director of DARPA’s Tactical Technology Office (TTO), which oversees both ACTUV and TALONS. “Where it’s a good fit, joint testing provides the opportunity to show the robustness and interoperability of each program’s research, as well to explore potential future uses that wouldn’t be evident by testing each program separately.”

TALONS is part of DARPA’s Phase 1 research for Tern, a joint program between DARPA and the U.S. Navy’s Office of Naval Research (ONR). Now that at-sea demonstration is complete, DARPA is transitioning TALONS to the Navy.

In September 2014, DARPA signed a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) with ONR to jointly fund an extended test phase of an ACTUV prototype. In April 2016, a christening ceremony in Portland, Oregon, marked the vessel’s formal transition from a DARPA-led design and construction project to open-water testing conducted jointly with ONR. DARPA will collaborate with ONR to fully test the capabilities of the vessel and several innovative payloads over the next two years. Pending the results of those tests, the program could transition to the Navy by 2018.

Image Caption: DARPA’s Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) Continuous Trail Unmanned Vessel (ACTUV) program has developed and built a technology demonstration vessel that is currently undergoing open-water testing off the coast of California and recently set sail with its first payload: a prototype of a low-cost, elevated sensor mast developed through the Agency’s Towed Airborne Lift of Naval Systems (TALONS) research effort. Click below for high-resolution image.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline GR66

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2016, 00:03:15 »
How much would an unmanned vessel with this technology cost?  Would it be cheaper to simply outfit a commercial trawler-type vessel with one of these and a towed array sonar to patrol our coasts?

Offline Colin P

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2016, 10:21:50 »
It would be a cheap solution, but that vessel could not catch a sub or likely protect itself. You might be able to arm them with a Mk 43 type single torpedo launcher.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2016, 13:59:27 »
How much would an unmanned vessel with this technology cost?  Would it be cheaper to simply outfit a commercial trawler-type vessel with one of these and a towed array sonar to patrol our coasts?

Flower class corvettes were based on commercial "Boston Whalers" so the idea has a pedigree. The main cost these days is the highly skilled crews needed to man the ships. The purpose of the robotic ships (as I understand it) si to provide a screen around higher valued manned ships without the expense of extra crews, or putting crews in danger. The enemy submarine will be forced to contend with a minimum of two ships (the control ship and its robotic escort), and more likely a convoy would have one or two frigates and five or more robot "corvettes" sailing with them.

As a bonus, the robot ship needs no space for berthing, messes or wardrooms or any other accommodations, so can be far smaller even with the same weapons and sensor load outs. This would theoretically make the ship less expensive to build, and provide a much smaller signature for enemy ships, aircraft or submarines to detect.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Colin P

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2016, 16:08:14 »
Fishing vessels can be quite big, but if damaged, you likely lose the ship and crew. They could easily handle all sorts of detection gear with little modification. Gray paint, 35mm gun, 2 MG's and some sort of torpedo pods and a chaff/noise maker for defense and your good to go. this would be your offshore one


Inshore
A few of these on each coast, they could do fisheries research while patrolling for subs.

Offline Thucydides

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2016, 18:06:19 »
For the ultimate in long term robotic patrolling, the Waveglider charges its batteries using a solar panel and uses no engines at all, just the motion of the waves. Dump a thousand of them in a long line and they form the sensor screen along the entire coastal region:

https://www.liquid-robotics.com/platform/how-it-works/

Open Sensor and Payload Integration Architecture
A flexible design makes it easy to reconfigure or adjust onboard payloads on the fly. The optimized motion and sound isolation systems and persistence make the Wave Glider well suited for towed acoustic sensors.

Plug and play payloads
Multiple sensor placement options
Payload health check sensors
Massive towing capability
 
Wave Glider Specifications
Water Speed: 1kt to 3kts
Endurance: Up to 1 year
Operating Water Depth: > 15m
Station Keeping: 40m radius (CEP90)
Payload: 7 modular bays
Tow Capability: Up to 500kg mass
Average Continuous Power: 5W – 20W
Max Solar Collection: 156W
Battery Storage: 0.9kWh – 4.5kWh
Communications: Satellite, Cell, Wi-Fi
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Czech_pivo

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Re: Worldwide Submarine Threat
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2018, 08:01:27 »