Author Topic: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]  (Read 18510 times)

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Offline DAA

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2016, 13:38:45 »
That is completely self imposed, and can be addressed internally. When I worked in recruiting, 5.e. was within the CFRC CO's authority, and it was one form.  It is simply a matter of delegating the correct release item to the proper authority (CBG Comd/Unit CO) or making use of one of the release items already available to them.

I get that, but that is no reason to accept an inefficient and ineffective process.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one.  I was a Prod O and MCC for three years, conducted hundreds of interviews and thousands of files went across my desk.  In my experience, criminal issues were rarely a surprise.  Credit issues were more complicated, but the issues found in the reports were rarely showstoppers.  An applicant might forget about their overdue fees from the library, but they aren't going to forget that they are under bankruptcy proceedings, and if they do we are completely in our rights to treat that as a breach of trust, and process as an irregular enrollment.

Incorrect.  PRes attractions is the responsibility of the elements.  The entire CAF applicant processing capability is either organic to, or operates under the control of CFRG. If PRes applicant processing was not a CFRG responsibility, it would be resourced and manned completely differently.

I would be happy to take that to the PMs.  I have observed that process on both sides of the fence for more than a decade, and it has proven extremely problematic.

At the end of the day and believe it or not, CFRG is neither base line funded nor mandated to provide support to Reserve Force Recruiting or Processing efforts but yet and for various reasons, CFRG does currently manage the processing component on their behalf.  No doubt, the "Good Idea Fairies" thought this part up.

It's all about "resource management" and higher has pulled back several components of the processing function with the thought that it would improve things.  It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.

Reserve Force recruiting efforts have been problematic at best and in some instances, Units aren't able to meet their intake requirements due to slow processing, lack of qualified/suitable applicants or poor communications/working relationships with the processing Det.

I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly of it all.  Hopefully the CA chooses some sort of path to follow inorder to meet their Res F intake requirements because if not, the problem is just going to continue "as is" and may eventually compound itself to such an extent, that some Res F Units may not have enough personnel to even operate as a "Unit".

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Offline MCG

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2016, 13:55:13 »
It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.
Does a higher population density and larger military make that a more logical model for the US than perhaps it might be in Canada?

Offline DAA

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2016, 14:26:16 »
Does a higher population density and larger military make that a more logical model for the US than perhaps it might be in Canada?

I believe the concept is being adopted based on the limited resources allocated to current recruiting efforts with the idea that we can sustain our intake numbers but with less personnel dedicated to the task, while being more efficient.  The reduction in the number of Recruiting Centres/Detachments and dedicated recruiting personnel all across Canada a few years back precipitated such a move and made such a concept look more appealing.

The US Model uses a wide "Attraction" network (ie; get them interested) and once they are ready to sign, everything was passed from the Recruiting Station, to the Regional/Area Processing Station who managed the process after that.  The problem being, is that here in Canada, we just don't have the personnel resources to effectively incorporate such a system for it to work effectively.  So now we are sort of doing this "piece-meal" style by reallocating responsibilities internally and it's just not working.

When you have less than 2% of your current personnel resources dedicated to maintaining the effective strength of your organization at an operational level, something is bound to give.  Keep in mind, that CAF Marketing does an awesome job at "attracting" people towards our organization and getting them to apply.  But we lose a good chunk of those applicants because they become disenchanted/disinterested with the job prospect as their processing drags out.
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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2016, 14:40:08 »
It appears that someone somewhere feels that the US Recruiting Model (Recruiting Stations and Processing Stations) is a suitable option for use here in Canada, so it appears that's what we are slowly moving towards.

I saw this ( 2008 ) film about the US Recruiting Model,
The Recruiter
"Uncle Sam really wants you! A compelling exploration of army recruitment in the United States told through the story of Louisiana Sergeant, First Class Clay Usie, one of the most successful recruiters in the history of the U.S. Army."
http://www.propellerfilms.com/recruiter/

One of every four high school graduates cannot pass the basic military entrance exam. Couple that with high obesity and rise of criminal records means there is a much lower chance of getting military recruits. Despite these obstacles recruitment numbers are hitting their marks. The economic crisis is giving way to more willing recruits and many of them have one of the key measures to join, a high school diploma. Still the ineligibility rates some military leaders say are, “a matter of national security.”

The hardships that come with being in the army begin to arise at basic training. One girl has a massive panic attack, while some of the boys try to fake being gay in order to be discharged under “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Recruiter_(2008_film)

Film Details Frustrations Of Army Recruiter
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92971946

Military Recruiting: Are We Passing The Test?
http://www.npr.org/2011/01/02/132592329/high-school-graduates-shut-out-of-military

Sgt. Usie took a personal interest in applicants. Going to their sporting events, etc. on his own time.

He was a Recruiter for ten years.


« Last Edit: September 09, 2016, 15:24:29 by mariomike »
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Offline DAA

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2016, 15:30:34 »
Yup!  The Recruiters in the US are actively involved with the applicants on both the social and physical preparation side of the house prior to them actually signing on the dotted line but there's good reason for them to do this.  Individually assigned quota's.  Recruiting positions in the US are assigned based on career progression requirements and/or volunteering for a Recruiting Billet.  Assignment timelines vary (usually 3 years but it can be reduced) but each Recruiter is given a "quota" that must be met annually and their quota is only counted in their favour, if their applicant is successful all the way through to becoming occupation qualified.  Hence, they need to become actively involved and motivate the person to be successful in the chosen military career.

Here in Canada, it's a regular Posting (3-4 years) which now comes with additional benefits at annual Merit Boards (ie; counted the same as an Operational Tour).  Personnel are screened prior to be slotted into one of these positions.  Reg F Recruiters are effectively posted "out of trade" and now doing a form of staff duties, so there is the draw back of losing or falling behind on occupational knowledge in some instances.  Add on the Class B personnel who augment the Recruiting system and you have a wide variety of people, from all occupations, experiences and walks of life and you have an interesting mix, which is what is needed.  We don't have the luxury of independant Army, Air Force, Navy and Reserve Force Recruiting Detachments like our neighbours to the South.

20-30 years ago, a posting to a Recruiting job was sought after.  Hell, who wouldn't want to wear their uniform out in public, mix with Canada's youth, the local community, fly the flag and promote the CAF, that stuff is instilled into us.  Over time, society changed and also the CAF itself.  Recruiting became an easy dumping ground for CM's and a place to dispose of those who were less than spectacular at their jobs or considered admin burdens.  These days, things are slowly beginning to improve but like anything else in the CAF, you just need to wait for the Pendulum to swing in the proper direction.

The biggest draw back to a job like this.........is that you don't necessarily get the satisfaction of accomplishing anything.  Sure you do your job but once it's complete, the applicant is off to Basic and you will most likely never see them again. 
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Offline ueo

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2016, 12:34:33 »
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2016, 15:23:37 »
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:
It's not always a dumping ground just like the schools aren't always dumping grounds. But the fact remains that it is somewhere to put someone you can't get rid of but is ineffective in their regular job for one reason or another.

Also the 90s was a long, long time ago. At least in my experience, recruiting worked back then so maybe it was due in part to higher quality people.

Things may have changed since I was involved in reserve recruiting but it was basically a disaster on every level. We had no ability to speed up the process, it was 100% under the control of the CFRG Det . Allocation was done based on unit size ie. more recruits for bigger units. This meant bigger units kept getting bigger and small units couldn't grow. The reserves were seen as a second task behind reg force recruitment so reserve files seemed to be pushed back if short staffed or busy. And this was in addition to all the other issues that affect everyone.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2016, 15:35:55 »
You're confounding different issues.  Quotas are set by the Army, not by CFRG.
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Offline DAA

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: September 12, 2016, 14:10:17 »
Sorry, I haven't figured out how to quote a previous post. But recruiting was never, at least during the 90's, a dumping ground for the CMs. I resent the implication made, on a personal and professional level. Not just for myself but all others who were just slagged as well as all the recruits we brought in despite the tall forehead meddling and change predicated by a senior officer's visit to the States resultant in our system of today. (1 or more years to process!). :rage:

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/christie-blatchford-canadian-militarys-woefully-inept-recruiting-system-blasted-in-stinging-report

"While the advisory board said the military is still attracting fine candidates, the length of time it takes to sign up “will not stand the CF in good stead with the Millennial generation.” It also says that the recruiting group is “all too often … an afterthought at best and at worst a dumping ground for lesser performers…

I'm not slagging anyone, merely stating the obvious which has already been reported on by the Defence Science Advisory Board within their 23-page report submitted to DND in 2013.  I don't think there was much if anything in the report that was refuted either.

Nevertheless, Recruiting still manages to maintain reasonable recruiting numbers for the Regular Force but even today, the Reserve Force still struggles with it's manning levels and that is even after the injection of a substantial number of "dedicated" Army Recruiters.
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Offline rnkelly

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: September 12, 2016, 17:29:32 »
From working at a Recruiting Centre for the last year I haven't seen any bias between RegF and PRes files.  If anything I see the PRes files go faster due to the hard work of the PRes recruiters and the abbreviated interview.  At our location the problem is a lack of PRes applicants which could be for a variety of reasons but primarily the PRes units' ability to attract applicants.  It also doesn't help that at any moment during the application process a PRes applicant can be re-oriented to RegF which is completely reasonable.

This is not to say that I think the system is ideal but the same factors delay many files, ie; limited medical personnel, pre-secures, admin errors etc.  Unfortunately these delays are even more glaring when it's for an applicant looking for a part-time position that may or may not be long term.

 :2c: from a "lesser performer"


Offline Tcm621

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: September 12, 2016, 19:49:27 »
You're confounding different issues.  Quotas are set by the Army, not by CFRG.
Yes. Sorry, I should have made that clear.  But it is another issue with Pres recruiting.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2016, 18:33:31 »
I think part of what hurts recruiting in the reserves now is that previously a recruiter from a reserve unit could go to a local high school,  college,  job fair,  public event and spend an allocated hour telling the audience how great the reserve unit,  all the things the regiment could do for them and why they should join That regiment.   

That changed and now,  unless it changed again,  reserve recruiters need to take that hour and talk about the reserves AND the reg force.  On top of that they have to talk about opportunities in the navy army and airforce.  Pretty hard to do with time constraints and easy to do all the ground work and have the person join another element.  The CF as a whole still gets a member but the reserve unit doesn't.
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Offline fruitflavor

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2016, 02:54:12 »
saw this on reddit
https://www.facebook.com/notes/canadian-army/news-release-36-canadian-brigade-group-commences-evaluation-of-primary-reserve-e/1157018384390138?qid=6359609950443658761&mf_story_key=5587047613818341922
Quote
December 2, 2016 – Halifax, N.S. – National Defence / 5th Canadian Division   
On December 1st 36 Canadian Brigade Group (36 CBG) commenced an evaluation of the Primary Reserve Expedited Enrollment Trial (PREET) for selected Army Reserve units in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Western Newfoundland.   
The PREET evaluation will run from December 1st 2016 to March 31st 2017 and will utilize a modified process that aims to have applicants to the Army Reserve enrolled after two scheduled visits to the unit they seek to join. Once an applicant becomes a recruit, the remaining processing steps will take place concurrent with the initial recruit training.
Improving the recruiting process is a major priority for the Canadian Army (CA). In the coming years the CA will be undertaking a series of initiatives aimed at further strengthening the Primary Reserve, including the PREET. 

more in the link

Offline Brasidas

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2016, 10:44:02 »
Heard the same thing yesterday, with CO saying that we would follow in the new year.

2 to 4 weeks from initial commitment to enroll to signing a Cl A paysheet.

Offline RocketRichard

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2016, 13:56:22 »
This will be a go for most brigades


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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2016, 23:59:54 »
This will be a go all most brigades


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fixed for you, as of April 1st, this is the new system
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Offline LunchMeat

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2016, 08:22:35 »
Does this mean they're going to allow PRes NCMs administer fitness tests again or do we still have to sit around and wait for PSP to send a representative?  ::)
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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2016, 14:04:44 »
Does this mean they're going to allow PRes NCMs administer fitness tests again or do we still have to sit around and wait for PSP to send a representative?  ::)

We will be doing the fitness tests for the member on a wednesday night
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2016, 14:09:38 »
Why don't we just contract out our hiring to any number of private sector businesses that find thousands of people for big employers?

One example: http://gthiringsolutions.ca/
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Offline PanaEng

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2016, 10:17:52 »
Why don't we just contract out our hiring to any number of private sector businesses that find thousands of people for big employers?

One example: http://gthiringsolutions.ca/
That may just make sense; as an alternate delivery enterprise - maybe even composed, partly, of former members.

Another aspect that makes the Eng units in the reserves suffer in terms of recruiting and retention is the suffocating control that the school holds on trade level courses. For us and a few others where the courses are 10 weeks or over, in the summer, it would make sense to do some of the basic POs in-house. That way, the school just needs to concentrate on the more technical or high risk POs (where standards are critical) and at the same time we would be able to reduce the trg delta between the Reg and Res force.
This way, the young recruit can start to learn trade specific things while waiting for the other required courses and keeping him/her interested and feeling valued.

We have already devised some interleaving in the scheduling of SQ and DP1 which shortens the time required for the recruit to be employable in some capacity. Before, it would take a year and a half or more to get a recruit through BMQ, SQ and DP1 as most times the courses did not line up and the recruit had to wait a full year for the next DP1 serial.
Progress is being made but we need to go beyond this.
 
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see:
Quote from: RHFC_piper ink=topic=51916.msg617784#msg617784 date=1190404708

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Offline MilEME09

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2016, 11:32:16 »

We have already devised some interleaving in the scheduling of SQ and DP1 which shortens the time required for the recruit to be employable in some capacity. Before, it would take a year and a half or more to get a recruit through BMQ, SQ and DP1 as most times the courses did not line up and the recruit had to wait a full year for the next DP1 serial.
Progress is being made but we need to go beyond this.

I was actually talking to the incoming RCEME RSM a few weeks about this very thing, that if we streamlined the course calendar we could cut a year or more from the training time for techs. Main problem being DP1 courses have been starting after DP2. flip it around and thats one less summer a tech needs.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2016, 16:45:46 »
A bit of a tangent, but streamlining procedures and increasing productivity can buy huge gains for the CF, and potentially for the Canadian government as a whole. Look at the potential savings the American DoD could reap through this sort of thinking:

http://www.nextbigfuture.com/2016/12/pentagon-could-easily-save-125-billion.html

Quote
Pentagon could easily save $125 billion over 5 years in bureaucratic waste and inefficiency
 
The Pentagon has buried an internal study that exposed $125 billion in administrative waste in its business operations amid fears Congress would use the findings as an excuse to slash the defense budget, according to interviews and confidential memos obtained by The Washington Post.

Pentagon leaders had requested the study to help make their enormous back-office bureaucracy more efficient and reinvest any savings in combat power. But after the project documented far more wasteful spending than expected, senior defense officials moved swiftly to kill it by discrediting and suppressing the results.

The 77 page report issued in January 2015, identified “a clear path” for the Defense Department to save $125 billion over five years. The plan would not have required layoffs of civil servants or reductions in military personnel. Instead, it would have streamlined the bureaucracy through attrition and early retirements, curtailed high-priced contractors and made better use of information technology.

US Federal Budget over Time

The federal budget has more than doubled since 1993 from $1.96 trillion to just short of $4 trillion. This is 20% faster than inflation and the budget in 1993 was not austere.

This shows that the government has been getting more bloated and wasteful over time.

This is not including complete overspending and misspending.

The Defense department buying the F35 for a total program cost of over $1 trillion when they acquire over 2000 planes.
Aircraft carriers costing $13 billion each and submarines about $5 billion each.
Spacex spending 320 times less to develop the dragon capsule compared to NASA spending on Orion. $200 billion of total spending on each of the Space Shuttle and the Space Station. The Space shuttle had 135 total launches. Heavy lift launches could have been had for at least ten times less cost.
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Offline unmaxdemax

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2017, 15:42:58 »
Hello all. For your information, i was supposed to go for medical 1 and 2. When i showed up for my medical, i only did medical 1. If i understood correctly, It seems there was a change in policy and reserves don't have to go for medical 2 if they filled in their medical questionnaire.

Offline medicineman

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2017, 16:09:04 »
It's something new and (debatedly) exciting - the questionnaire will be screened at a higher level and it will be determined if a formal physical is required and if any additional information is required...this literally just started in the last 1-2 months.

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Offline Ayrsayle

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Re: Expedited Reserve Enrollment (ERE) process [Merged]
« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2017, 21:57:06 »
My understanding of the medical 2 process is that it can either be completed by Medical staff in location or at a later date when you are able / the system is able to prior to starting training.

in short, the successful screening that occurs in the questionnaire is enough to be enrolled, but you will complete the medical two prior to completing any military specific training (IE, during your basic course).  A poor result on the medical (or any other, such as the security screening, etc) will mean an immediate release from the forces.

Clear as mud?  The Primary Reserve itself is still trying to wrinkle out the details with regards to this new process - so clarity is somewhat hard to come by as none of the members responsible for the process have been working with it very long.



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