Author Topic: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion  (Read 99494 times)

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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #200 on: December 25, 2017, 14:23:16 »
All the input is great, keep it all in mind for the next time this subject comes up.

I only say that, because I personally believe, Trudeau and the grits will not win the next election. So this will be dead in the water.

-or-

As per the current governments ethics violations and election promises, to date, I don't believe he'd keep his promise anyway. There is only one group of people this PM seems concerned with, and Veterans is not it.

So, at this point and time, I believe talk of compensation, by this government is moot. However, don't let me stop the discussion, I'm just tossing in my  :2c:
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Offline cowboy628

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #201 on: January 10, 2018, 15:04:50 »
       I asked this earlier today but on the wrong board so its a redo, lol

       So if your 70% under the pre 2006 DVA , and 30%  on the NVA after 2006 that =100%. Do those numbers get combined in the new program. ???? VAC could not answer that, they said hmmmm never thought of that.
 ::)
thanks in advance   

Offline Brihard

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #202 on: January 10, 2018, 16:03:38 »
       I asked this earlier today but on the wrong board so its a redo, lol

       So if your 70% under the pre 2006 DVA , and 30%  on the NVA after 2006 that =100%. Do those numbers get combined in the new program. ???? VAC could not answer that, they said hmmmm never thought of that.
 ::)
thanks in advance   

Since there is no legislation, regulation, or policy for the new system yet, that cannot be answered. The law has to pass first to provide the ‘skeleton’, and then various levels of government and VAC will flesh it out to a workable form.
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Offline cowboy628

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #203 on: January 10, 2018, 17:20:32 »
      Thx for your thoughts, I would guess a few guys are in that boat.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #204 on: January 11, 2018, 20:29:07 »
Since there is no legislation, regulation, or policy for the new system yet, that cannot be answered. The law has to pass first to provide the ‘skeleton’, and then various levels of government and VAC will flesh it out to a workable form.
Same query
42% before 2006, what happens to new pensioned condition under new charter?  what if new condition works out to (pick a number it doen'st matter) pretend 20%? Does it mean the whole will be combined and work out to 62%???
What if I get 42% now, and get new cash out amount for 20% new condition? do I need to transfer that to pension for life?

Offline Occam

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #205 on: January 11, 2018, 21:30:12 »
Same query
42% before 2006, what happens to new pensioned condition under new charter?  what if new condition works out to (pick a number it doen'st matter) pretend 20%? Does it mean the whole will be combined and work out to 62%???
What if I get 42% now, and get new cash out amount for 20% new condition? do I need to transfer that to pension for life?

No pension under the Pension Act will be affected by either the NVC, or whatever they call this pending mess.

Using the numbers you tossed out, the 42% under the Pension Act and 20% under either NVC or aforementioned pending mess, are added together only to obtain your overall disability rating.  Though you can certainly have an overall disability rating over 100%, they stop paying out additional Pension Act pension/lump sum awards once you've reached 100%.  Any ratings beyond that are for treatment benefits only.

Offline GreenArmychick

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #206 on: January 11, 2018, 21:34:24 »
No pension under the Pension Act will be affected by either the NVC, or whatever they call this pending mess.

Using the numbers you tossed out, the 42% under the Pension Act and 20% under either NVC or aforementioned pending mess, are added together only to obtain your overall disability rating.  Though you can certainly have an overall disability rating over 100%, they stop paying out additional Pension Act pension/lump sum awards once you've reached 100%.  Any ratings beyond that are for treatment benefits only.
Sounds like, if awarded a cash award for new disabilty,  before that new system comes into effect, best keep that $$$ since my 42% under pension act is more that the new 100% coming.  Did I get that right? 

Offline Occam

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #207 on: January 11, 2018, 21:58:30 »
Any new Disability Award awarded before 1 April 2019 will be in the form of the lump sum payment (status quo).  Supposedly, when the new as-yet-unwritten legislation kicks in on that date, there will be some kind of a lifetime pension (the details of which are incalculable by mere mortals) that takes into account what you've already received as a lump sum.

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #208 on: January 16, 2018, 08:50:40 »
VAC Facebook anouncement:

https://www.facebook.com/VeteransAffairsCanada/?hc_ref=ARQUVstym9rt9vKwCrCTM9bYze4sHssB2VV1oGkVbigzV-gvSAfDbwDeRhcLNPUz6rM&fref=gs&dti=348410141858743&hc_location=group

Join us Today @ 2 PM (ET) on Facebook Live for a Question and Answer session with Minister O'Regan on Pension for Life.
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Online Rifleman62

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #209 on: January 16, 2018, 16:13:34 »
Starting now.

Lets see if it really is the public asking. ;D
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #210 on: January 16, 2018, 17:16:00 »
Not on facebook. Can anyone give me a recap?

Offline Jewel144

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #211 on: January 16, 2018, 17:42:18 »
You can still access it via the link above.  If you aren't on facebook, you just need to enter the letters/numbers on the security screen and you can view.
Personally, I felt nothing substantive since the announcement in December.

Offline Teager

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #212 on: January 16, 2018, 20:18:59 »
I'd like to point out that the issue of those that get CIA/CIAS has been answered. If you are receiving those benefits you will NOT loose any of that money or receive less. For CIAS if you receive it you will be grandfathered in. So if you haven't applied for it and believe you could be entitled to it I suggest applying for it before April 1 2019.

Now it does seem that the CIAS will cease come 1 Apr 2019 and be replaced with the 1% annual increase for loss of carrer progresion.

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #213 on: February 02, 2018, 08:32:38 »
So there we have it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-town-hall-edmonton-1.4515822

Some veterans want more than Ottawa can afford, Trudeau tells town hall
- 1 Feb 18
Prime minister's cross-country tour wraps up with one final town hall in Nanaimo, B.C., Friday

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said his government is fighting some Canadian veterans in court because they are asking for more than the federal government can afford.

"Why are we still fighting certain veterans groups in court? Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now," Trudeau said, answering a question from a veteran, who said he lost his leg to an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan, during a town hall meeting on Thursday evening in Edmonton.

Some people booed that answer, forcing Trudeau to calm the crowd.

"You are asking for honest answers," he said to the crowd at MacEwan University Sport and Wellness. "The old veterans' charter involved lump-sum payments and very little in the way of services."

A veterans' group said earlier this week it is taking its fight over recent changes to the pension system to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Another veteran said that he did not think Trudeau was really listening to veterans and that his government's restoration of the lifelong pension was a "lacklustre" effort at best.

Before the old lifetime pension was eliminated in favour of a lump sum payment, veterans could have received up to $2,700 per month. Under the restored pension plan the Liberal government introduced, the maximum a wounded soldier would ever see is $1,150 per month.

"I have pledged, and I did pledge and I will continue to pledge that I will do right by you," Trudeau said. "The changes that we've made to our support for veterans are based around recognizing where we went wrong before."

Trudeau said his government's monthly pension amount is lower because it takes into account the cost of services offered by the federal government including post-traumatic-stress treatment and psychological care, support for caregivers and family members who look after wounded veterans and job training for those who can still get back into the job market.

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #214 on: February 02, 2018, 08:57:30 »
Did you honestly expect a different answer. At least now, you know where you stand with this government.

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #215 on: February 02, 2018, 09:40:39 »
Quote

Trudeau said his government's monthly pension amount is lower because it takes into account the cost of services offered by the federal government including post-traumatic-stress treatment and psychological care, support for caregivers and family members who look after wounded veterans and job training for those who can still get back into the job market.

Is this so unreasonable?  From the perspective of a taxpayer, I would suggest that it is not.
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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #216 on: February 02, 2018, 10:12:26 »
No, it is not unreasonable. Pensions, plus lump sums, plus program spending have to be looked at as a total package, vice each in isolation.

But, many veterans thought they heard the Liberals promise them something else entirely during the last election. That was the basis of my comment.

The reality is, there is a limit to to the political usefulness of veterans. This Government has calculated that they have extracted the maximum usefulness, for the taxpayer resources they have expended.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #217 on: February 02, 2018, 10:26:52 »
So there we have it.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-town-hall-edmonton-1.4515822

Some veterans want more than Ottawa can afford, Trudeau tells town hall
- 1 Feb 18
Prime minister's cross-country tour wraps up with one final town hall in Nanaimo, B.C., Friday

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said his government is fighting some Canadian veterans in court because they are asking for more than the federal government can afford.

"Why are we still fighting certain veterans groups in court? Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now," Trudeau said, answering a question from a veteran, who said he lost his leg to an improvised explosive device in Afghanistan, during a town hall meeting on Thursday evening in Edmonton.

Some people booed that answer, forcing Trudeau to calm the crowd.

"You are asking for honest answers," he said to the crowd at MacEwan University Sport and Wellness. "The old veterans' charter involved lump-sum payments and very little in the way of services."

A veterans' group said earlier this week it is taking its fight over recent changes to the pension system to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Another veteran said that he did not think Trudeau was really listening to veterans and that his government's restoration of the lifelong pension was a "lacklustre" effort at best.

Before the old lifetime pension was eliminated in favour of a lump sum payment, veterans could have received up to $2,700 per month. Under the restored pension plan the Liberal government introduced, the maximum a wounded soldier would ever see is $1,150 per month.

"I have pledged, and I did pledge and I will continue to pledge that I will do right by you," Trudeau said. "The changes that we've made to our support for veterans are based around recognizing where we went wrong before."

Trudeau said his government's monthly pension amount is lower because it takes into account the cost of services offered by the federal government including post-traumatic-stress treatment and psychological care, support for caregivers and family members who look after wounded veterans and job training for those who can still get back into the job market.

This is the type of comment that can cause members of the CAF to ponder whether or not the required responsibilities and obligations of service in the CAF can be afforded by individuals any further.
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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #218 on: February 02, 2018, 11:38:11 »
Quote
....more than we are able to give right now," Trudeau said.....

That's really "rich" considering the spending of this government.

https://twitter.com/ottawaspends


https://globalnews.ca/news/3600967/tracking-federal-government-spending/

NOTEBOOK: How we use Twitter to keep track of thousands of federal government spending announcements
- David Akin - 15 Jul 17

These days, your federal government is spending about $310 billion a year and you may wonder, where on earth does all that money go?

The answer is: Most of it is transferred to provinces and territories; a big chunk is transferred to individuals in the form of old age benefits, child benefits, EI payments and the like; a sizeable chunk is used to pay down the debt; a lot is used to pay 250,000 civil servants, 80,000 or so Canadian Forces members, and around 30,000 members of the RCMP.

Believe it or not, that still leaves lots left over for politicians to hand out. And whenever a politician hands out some money, you can bet there will be a press release so that one and often several politicians can be seen taking some credit (or blame) for handing out the money.

Here’s an MP, Dan Ruimy from B.C., who proudly tweeted a picture of himself handing out a novelty cheque drawn on the federal government’s bank account:(at link)

I’ve been told by PMO sources, by the way, that MPs are largely discouraged from using novelty cheques in funding announcements.

In any event, since March, 2009 whenever a spending announcement is made, I’ve been tracking key details from each spending announcement in a database I maintain. I use that database from time to time to  pull summary information about spending announcement patterns.

For example: As of this writing, the Ontario riding of Algoma–Manitoulin–Kapuskasing, held by New Democrat MP Carol Hughes, has had more projects funded during the life of this Parliament than any other riding in the country. Our database has logged 97 different projects in Hughes’ riding worth a combined $54.5 million.

By contrast, just two projects worth a combined $787,669 were approved in which all the money would be spent in Prime Minister Justin Trudeau‘s Montreal riding of Papineau.

Thanks to this database, we can tell you that nearly two years into the 42nd Parliament, the Trudeau government has made about 6,800 different funding announcements letting MPs take credit for a combined $31-billion in spending on everything from a new sewer line to a new roof on a curling club to new research labs to new affordable housing projects.

By contrast, the Harper government, over the entire length of the 41st Parliament, made 7,308 spending announcements for a combined $45 billion.

And every single one of those 13,000-plus spending announcements in the last Parliament and the current one is in my database.

And just about all of those are also on Twitter via a special Twitter account I’ve set up called @OttawaSpends.

Every time I put a spending announcement in my database, I also tweet it out. If you follow @OttawaSpends, you too can track every federal government spending announcement. For example, that photo of the gazebo, er, picnic shelter, pictured above with Liberal MP TJ Harvey was tweeted out like this:(at link)

Continued at link.



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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #219 on: February 02, 2018, 12:30:03 »
Is this so unreasonable?  From the perspective of a taxpayer, I would suggest that it is not.
I'd suggest to you that if the government cannot afford proper compensation, then they cannot expect unlimited liability from CAF members. Especially true considering we are required to give up charter rights as a condition of enrollment. Charter rights which are apparently worth at least  $10.5m.

Offline Halifax Tar

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #220 on: February 02, 2018, 12:46:55 »
I'd suggest to you that if the government cannot afford proper compensation, then they cannot expect unlimited liability from CAF members. Especially true considering we are required to give up charter rights as a condition of enrollment. Charter rights which are apparently worth at least  $10.5m.

 :goodpost: :ditto:
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Offline Fishbone Jones

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #221 on: February 02, 2018, 13:00:23 »
Is this so unreasonable?  From the perspective of a taxpayer, I would suggest that it is not.

In my opinion, it wouldn't be, if the PM wasn't throwing fistfuls of cash around the world and taking care of everyone else except Canadians. The amounts that have been given away are ridiculous, bankrupting and not good fiscal management by the government. I'm sure the money he's payed out to terrorists could've fixed some problems at VAC. Ironic that he takes care of our enemy, but not your own Veterans that fought that enemy.

What would happen if servicepeople said the same thing. "Sorry, I can't afford to lose any limbs or lives right now. You're asking too much. I don't have enough to go around."

The questions, probably, would have slid by, except the PM can't think on his feet and talk at the same time. He just said that Servicepeople that get injured are unimportant in the grand scheme and even though we can't afford to take care of them, we'll spend millions in court to fight them and maintain the same degrading status quo and still send them out to get injured and die. Only to come home to a great big "frig You".

He's just told the Canadian public that Canada can't afford an Armed Forces. If you can't pay the money to help fix the people you broke, you shouldn't have broken them in the first place.

And I'm a taxpayer also, and those taxes come out of the monies I receive from VAC.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 13:03:58 by recceguy »
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Offline Pieman

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #222 on: February 05, 2018, 19:52:59 »
They say they can't afford it, but does anyone know an accurate number of what VAC is actually asking for? (Total cost, not just how much each service member might get in hand) Hard to assess the validity of Treudeu's statement otherwise.
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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #223 on: February 05, 2018, 20:22:06 »
They say they can't afford it, but does anyone know an accurate number of what VAC is actually asking for? (Total cost, not just how much each service member might get in hand) Hard to assess the validity of Treudeu's statement otherwise.

I'm sure someone figured that out in a BN or something similar when they looked at the options. Of course, it's probably labeled as cabinet confidence so you can't ATI it.

I like how they just take a lump sum and spread it across a fixed term with no interest adjustment. I'm sure financially you are better off taking the lump sum and investing it in something; at least a savings account would give you a 1% or so a year to partially track with inflation.

Offline Teager

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Re: VAC Return to Lifetime Pensions Discussion
« Reply #224 on: February 05, 2018, 21:51:32 »
I'm having trouble understanding why the services offered by VAC are now being taken into account in total cost of what Veterans receive? To me it's like an insurance company saying well we provided you with services such as rehab and mental health so instead of the million payout we will only be giving you $200k.

If VAC is providing services the cost of those services should not come into play for the pension or lump sum amount when the government compares costs of the old pension system.