Author Topic: Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread  (Read 34512 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 202,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,322
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread
« on: January 17, 2017, 15:11:28 »
Is there a message out now about the creation of the Cyber Op MOSID?
I feel the need...the NEED to FEED! - Prop Gun

Offline Dolphin_Hunter

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 12,525
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,246
Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2017, 17:33:19 »
Yes there is, I read it today.

Offline Neso

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 52
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2017, 07:47:42 »
Yes there is, I read it today.

Where would one find that on the dwan?

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 202,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,322
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2017, 07:49:13 »
A CANFORFGEN I believe...
I feel the need...the NEED to FEED! - Prop Gun

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 908,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,922
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2017, 12:05:09 »
There's no 2017 or 2016 CANFORGEN announcing a new trade. Only a single 2016 CANFORGEN referencing soliticing candidates for a Cyber Operations Staff Officer course.

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 202,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,322
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2017, 13:22:54 »
I am on leave but saw something quickly that a friend had sent to me on DWAN email...asking him on civie means what the source was, but it was def about the new Cyber Op MOSID....
I feel the need...the NEED to FEED! - Prop Gun

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 202,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,322
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2017, 13:32:58 »
UNCLAS

SUBJ: CYBER OPERATOR (CYBER OP) - MILITARY EMPLOYMENT STRUCTURE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN (MES IP)

1. THIS MES IP WILL COME INTO EFFECT 31 JAN 17 AND IT WILL ESTABLISH
A CYBER OPERATOR OCCUPATION WITHIN THE CAF

4. EMPLOYMENT QUALIFICATIONS. THERE WILL BE THREE RANK QUALS (RQ),
SIX UNIQUE SPECIALTY QUALS (USQ) AND SIX EXPERIENCE QUALS (EQ)
ASSOCIATED WITH THE CYBER OP OCCUPATION. THE ASSOCIATED TRG
REQUIREMENTS WILL BE DEVELOPED OVER THE NEAR TO MEDIUM TERM

5. OCCUPATION GROUPS (OCC GP). THE CYBER OP OCC WILL BELONG TO THE
00378AA (CYBER OP), 90000AA (ATR), 90010AA (COMM SYS OPS) AND 90052AA
(CYBER OPS) OCC GPS

I feel the need...the NEED to FEED! - Prop Gun

Offline Neso

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 52
Re: Cyber Op Trade
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2017, 15:12:17 »
UNCLAS

SUBJ: CYBER OPERATOR (CYBER OP) - MILITARY EMPLOYMENT STRUCTURE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN (MES IP)

1. THIS MES IP WILL COME INTO EFFECT 31 JAN 17 AND IT WILL ESTABLISH
A CYBER OPERATOR OCCUPATION WITHIN THE CAF

4. EMPLOYMENT QUALIFICATIONS. THERE WILL BE THREE RANK QUALS (RQ),
SIX UNIQUE SPECIALTY QUALS (USQ) AND SIX EXPERIENCE QUALS (EQ)
ASSOCIATED WITH THE CYBER OP OCCUPATION. THE ASSOCIATED TRG
REQUIREMENTS WILL BE DEVELOPED OVER THE NEAR TO MEDIUM TERM

5. OCCUPATION GROUPS (OCC GP). THE CYBER OP OCC WILL BELONG TO THE
00378AA (CYBER OP), 90000AA (ATR), 90010AA (COMM SYS OPS) AND 90052AA
(CYBER OPS) OCC GPS


Thanks for that. It would be nice to see this make its way to the Reserve side of the house, but I have my doubts, since we couldn't even get IST for some reason beyond my comprehension.

Offline Neso

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 52
Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2017, 08:18:05 »
UNCLAS

SUBJ: CYBER OPERATOR (CYBER OP) - MILITARY EMPLOYMENT STRUCTURE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN (MES IP)

1. THIS MES IP WILL COME INTO EFFECT 31 JAN 17 AND IT WILL ESTABLISH
A CYBER OPERATOR OCCUPATION WITHIN THE CAF

4. EMPLOYMENT QUALIFICATIONS. THERE WILL BE THREE RANK QUALS (RQ),
SIX UNIQUE SPECIALTY QUALS (USQ) AND SIX EXPERIENCE QUALS (EQ)
ASSOCIATED WITH THE CYBER OP OCCUPATION. THE ASSOCIATED TRG
REQUIREMENTS WILL BE DEVELOPED OVER THE NEAR TO MEDIUM TERM

5. OCCUPATION GROUPS (OCC GP). THE CYBER OP OCC WILL BELONG TO THE
00378AA (CYBER OP), 90000AA (ATR), 90010AA (COMM SYS OPS) AND 90052AA
(CYBER OPS) OCC GPS

If there are any other interested parties -

The 17-18 Defence Policy has a handful of interesting points regarding the Cyber Operator occupation in Reserve context:

"Assign Reserve Force units and formations new roles that provide full-time capability to the Canadian Armed Forces through part-time service, including: ... Cyber Operators ..."
          - Canada Defence Policy Report, p.69(75)

"Use Reservists with specialized skill-sets to fill elements of the Canadian Armed Forces cyber force."
           - Canada Defence Policy Report, p.73(90)

Looking very forward to this and an OT.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 22:24:11 by PuckChaser »

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 908,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,922
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: Cyber Operator Trade Mega Thread
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2017, 22:50:49 »
If we waste expensive training on making a zero to hero Cyber Operator reservist, it will confirm to me that the CAF has no idea what its doing with the PRes. Cyber Op PRes should be skilled entry or CT from RegF Cyber Op only. I can just imagine us dumping $500K in courses to get a DP1 PRes Cyber Operator who's Cl A, and see them walk swiftly out the door to a nice civilian job with no intention of ever working a real day after OFP.

Offline Neso

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 52
Re: Cyber Operator Trade Mega Thread
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2017, 11:22:05 »
If we waste expensive training on making a zero to hero Cyber Operator reservist, it will confirm to me that the CAF has no idea what its doing with the PRes. Cyber Op PRes should be skilled entry or CT from RegF Cyber Op only. I can just imagine us dumping $500K in courses to get a DP1 PRes Cyber Operator who's Cl A, and see them walk swiftly out the door to a nice civilian job with no intention of ever working a real day after OFP.

What I'm taking away from the plan is that it's intended to be skilled entry only, but who knows.

Offline signalsguy

  • Full Member
  • *****
  • 4,670
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 478
Re: Cyber Operator Trade Mega Thread
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2017, 13:22:07 »
The plan is to let people working in INFOSEC already contribute as reserve Cyber Operators. There won't be much if any training, maybe some tool specific stuff. We are looking for people working in industry.


Offline Neso

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • 2,170
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 52
Re: Cyber Operator Trade Mega Thread
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2017, 15:04:09 »
The plan is to let people working in INFOSEC already contribute as reserve Cyber Operators. There won't be much if any training, maybe some tool specific stuff. We are looking for people working in industry.

Any idea if it's too soon to try for an OT?

Offline PuckChaser

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 908,985
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,922
    • Peacekeeper's Homepage
Re: Cyber Operator Trade Mega Thread
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2017, 22:23:36 »
I split out the Cyber Op trade posts into its own thread. Figured with the trade being officially announced, it deserves its own home and discussion place. We can keep it under the C&E Branch header for now, as I'm sure we all believe the trade will fall under the Jimmy umbrella, but I've yet to see an official announcement.

Moderator Achievement Unlocked: Don't screw up a thread split.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 22:33:46 by PuckChaser »

Offline meni0n

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • 20,735
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 842
  • Soldier of leisure
Re: Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2017, 22:53:23 »
I'd hold off on OTing for a few years, they don't have any of the training figured out yet and they got no infrastructure so it will be quiet a while before they can do anything really.

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,526
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
"Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2017, 06:53:21 »
... and according to the G&M, not just universality of service - shared under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act (R.S.C., 1985, c. C-42) ...
Quote
The Canadian Armed Forces is preparing to bend the rule that says all its members must be fit and ready for deployment as the military looks to hire the best people in an era where cyberspace is a battlefield and where lifestyle choices must sometimes be accommodated.

General Jonathan Vance, Chief of the Defence Staff, has the job of implementing the government’s new plan to boost military spending by more than $30-billion over the next decade.

The plan calls for the number of military personnel to increase by 5,000, and requires that, by 2026, women hold one of every four jobs in the Forces. And, in a move that was previously unthinkable, it urges measures be adopted to allow some members of the Canadian Armed Forces who no longer meet the universality of service rule – the requirement that all personnel be fit for deployment anywhere at any time – to continue to serve on a case-by-case basis.

“We need a modern set of working human-resource principles and rule sets that allow for some variance in a career, because everybody is a little bit different,” Gen. Vance said recently during a wide-ranging interview about military recruitment and retention.

Nearly two years after he became the country’s top soldier, Gen. Vance appears comfortable and relaxed sitting on the couch of his office at defence headquarters and greeting a succession of journalists lined up by his communications team to get details of the multiyear plan. Human-resource issues are a huge part of that – something he said he welcomes. On his desk is a sign that says “The Buck Stops Here.” Cliché perhaps, but also fitting.

Soldiers can become unsuitable for deployment due to illness or injury. Many have found themselves unhappily discharged after being permanently disabled, either physically or psychologically, and have pleaded with the military for this sort of accommodation.

But Gen. Vance is thinking beyond those whose wounds have left them unable to do their jobs. He wants to find a way to keep the young female pilot who does not want to be deployed during the years she is raising her children, or the computer expert whose ties to his community make it impossible for him to consider being shipped out.

“Maybe we need to make units in the Armed Forces that allow for people to say ‘I am going to be cyber, I am not ever going to deploy, my work is in cyberspace,. I can be networked, I can be given direction, as long as it’s in an environment that’s safe,’” said Gen. Vance. “As long as you’re loyal to the Armed Forces, you’ve gone through sufficient training to make you loyal to the Armed Forces, why can’t that be your job?”

If the rules around military employment are “cut and dried and inflexible, you may not be drawing all the best individuality of people,” the general said. Allowing some variance from the traditional military path “should appeal to a wider range of people,” he said, “diverse men and women with skill sets I can mine to get the very best talent out of Canada and get them into the Forces without any loss of combat capability. In fact, we will be more capable.”

All of this is in the imagination phase. At the moment, the universality of service rule is in effect. And Gen. Vance does not intend to abandon it completely. To do so, he said, would affect the military’s operational capacity.

But “imagine a very bright and intelligent infantry soldier who loses a limb,” he said. “Well, we’ve already sunk cost into that person, if you want to take the crass business view. So, if we can, why not retrain them on a case-by-case basis and let them complete their career, at least to a horizon of when they are pensionable or whatever suits them.”

That might mean creating different classes of full-time members and reservists, he said.

Those who can be deployed would be unrestricted and would advance through the ranks as soldiers, sailors and aviators traditionally do. Those who cannot be deployed would be restricted from advancement into leadership positions, but could still get pay increases as they develop their skills and experience.
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline milnews.ca

  • Info Curator, Baker & Food Slut
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Relic
  • *
  • 406,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 21,526
    • MILNEWS.ca-Military News for Canadians
Re: Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2017, 06:54:24 »
I'd hold off on OTing for a few years, they don't have any of the training figured out yet and they got no infrastructure so it will be quiet a while before they can do anything really.
Not to mention terms of service ...
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

The words I share here are my own, not those of anyone else or anybody I may be affiliated with.

Tony Prudori
MILNEWS.ca - Twitter

Offline MCG

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 205,245
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 11,707
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2017, 07:07:37 »
Quote
“Maybe we need to make units in the Armed Forces that allow for people to say ‘I am going to be cyber, I am not ever going to deploy, my work is in cyberspace,. I can be networked, I can be given direction, as long as it’s in an environment that’s safe,’”
As I stated in another thread, if these are the job requirements, why are we considering cyber as military and not civilian employment?

Offline Eye In The Sky

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 202,495
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,322
    • VP INTERNATIONAL
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2017, 07:34:52 »
The cons of this whole plan I will refer to as •the double standard plan• outweigh the pros.

We will have a very politically correct and even less capable force.  Quotas like this 1 in 4 must be women makes me want to kick someone in the nads.
I feel the need...the NEED to FEED! - Prop Gun

Offline Journeyman

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 519,055
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,618
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2017, 07:55:04 »
Two points come to mind -- both meaningless....

Quote
“Maybe we need to make units in the Armed Forces that allow for people to say ‘I am going to be cyber, I am not ever going to deploy,’” said Gen. Vance.
A clear priority is going to be developing a new set of bling;  no deployments means no medals for Remembrance Day or Legion gatherings.  :crybaby:   There's one member here (sorry, I cannot recall the 'name' or be bothered searching, as his posts really didn't make him that memorable), but who was desperate to deploy anywhere,  in order to be one of the cool kids.

Added bonus: maybe the HQ types who cannot manage to get on a '30-day + 1' Staff Annoyance Visit will qualify for this bling as well.   :nod:


Quotas like this 1 in 4 must be women makes me want to kick someone in the nads.
I believe you meant to say "...want to kick someone in the nads or  ovaries."
(or perhaps nads and  ovaries, so as not to exclude hermaphrodites)


I now return you to more intelligent comment (hopefully), and me, to my morning coffee.
Sadly amazed at people cheering on the spread of kakistocracy.   :not-again:

Offline GAP

  • Semper Fi
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 209,635
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 12,937
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2017, 08:09:10 »
Next step will be to NOT having to deal with those gun thingy's....I am a clerk, etc... I don't need to play soldier......


Ahhh.....snowflakes abound everywhere..... [:p
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Offline Bruce Monkhouse

    Is a pinball wizard.

  • Lab Experiment #13
  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 239,310
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 14,707
  • WHERE IS MY BATON?
    • http://www.canadianbands.com./home.html
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #21 on: June 12, 2017, 08:28:27 »
...and eventually they'll need a full-size unit where folks DO play with guns and practice deployment stuff........maybe have them jump out of planes, and wear spiffy boots, and post them within a couple of hours of the Nations capital.      Naw,....who'd even think such a thing could exist?
IF YOU REALLY ENJOY THIS SITE AND WISH TO CONTINUE,THEN PLEASE WIGGLE UP TO THE BAR AND BUY A SUBSCRIPTION OR SOME SWAG FROM THE MILNET.CA STORE OR IF YOU WISH TO ADVERTISE PLEASE SEND MIKE SOME DETAILS.

Everybody has a game plan until they get punched in the mouth.

Offline Humphrey Bogart

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 103,509
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,918
Re: Cyber Operator trade Mega Thread
« Reply #22 on: June 12, 2017, 08:39:21 »
It's the CAF so first order of business is always dress and deportment.  Clearly we won't be able to fully leverage our cyber capabilities without a new set of Cyber "wings"


Offline Simian Turner

    is a veteran who enjoys oddities!

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *
  • 48,385
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 2,617
  • Do the right thing; do the thing right!
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017, 11:31:47 »
CDS is setting himself up for a utopian but impotent military - once you start ignoring Universality of Service and the 'bona fide' requirements set out after many Canadian Human Rights Tribunal rulings, then you open yourself to the vast range of ailments that currently prevents someone from serving.  Ailments from mobility, psychological, biological issues or even allergies - you know things that lead to 3B releases now.  CHRT has made it clear that you can't pick and choose, it is one standard for all.

CDS seems to think he can make up his own rules that ignore the laws of the land.  He will fill his numbers in a hurry because anyone ever released on a 3B will form two lines - one at the recruiting centre and the other at a lawyer's office for a class-action suit if they choose not to re-enroll or are rejected.

Excerpt from DAOD 5023-0, Universality of Service

2.1 The mission of the DND and the CAF is to defend Canada, its interests and its values, while contributing to international peace and security.

2.2 To execute this mission the CAF must be given broad authority and latitude in utilizing CAF members and their skills. The statutory basis for this authority is section 33 of the National Defence Act. The fundamental importance of this authority to the functioning and effectiveness of the CAF is recognized in subsection 15(9) of the Canadian Human Rights Act which provides that the duty to accommodate under subsection 15(2) of that Act is subject to the principle of universality of service. Under this principle, CAF members must at all times and under any circumstances perform any functions that they may be required to perform.

2.3 Effective performance of the broad range of defence and security tasks assigned to the CAF requires that CAF members be capable of performing a similarly broad range of general military, common defence and security duties, in addition to the more particular duties of their military occupation or occupational specification. This open-ended nature of military service is one of the features that distinguish it from the civilian notion of employment governed by a contract, which obliges employees to perform only those duties specified in their job description or contract.

Principle of Universality of Service

2.4 The principle of universality of service or "soldier first" principle holds that CAF members are liable to perform general military duties and common defence and security duties, not just the duties of their military occupation or occupational specification. This may include, but is not limited to, the requirement to be physically fit, employable and deployable for general operational duties.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 11:35:50 by Simian Turner »
The grand essentials of happiness: something to do, something to love, something to hope for.  Allan K. Chalmers

Offline Loachman

  • Former Army Pilot in Drag
  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 206,392
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 7,209
Re: "Canadian military to relax deployment-readiness rule" ...
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2017, 11:57:11 »
There is a chance that he may not agree with all or part of this, but has to sell it to the troops anyway.