Author Topic: Single mom now facing medical release from military  (Read 19101 times)

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Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2017, 13:54:16 »
. . .  like Billy Bishop used to strafe the Hun is his Jammies :)

And how the Hun got in his jammies, he was never able to properly explain!  :)
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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2017, 08:22:01 »
I had to let my daughter go because of my job in the Canadian military

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/single-parent-military-1.4169806

Whenever I am asked if I recommend military life to other women, my answer is always categorically: no.

This usually surprises people who know me because I am a vocal feminist, a bit of a tomboy and a six-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). I believe to my core that sex and gender do not, and should not, limit what you can do in life. But women and the armed forces just don't mix.

More on link

Interesting article
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Offline Lightguns

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2017, 08:45:27 »
Good article, basically she explains that if you join UOS is the guiding principle of your employment, not your family, not your mood, nor race, gender or political affiliation.  Recruiters should be telling the full truth.  Accommodations can be made but not right out of the gate.  One of the most effective things we could do to make the C of C more responsible for it's human resource decisions is to include Regular Force positions in unit budgets.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 08:47:58 by Lightguns »
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Offline MCG

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2017, 20:40:58 »
One of the most effective things we could do to make the C of C more responsible for it's human resource decisions is to include Regular Force positions in unit budgets.
I think you would find such a move would quickly work in the opposite direction you want.  Currently, COs support retaining people because they know career manages cannot fill positions if they fall vacant (we don't have enough people).  So a broken person becomes better than no person, and it costs the unit nothing.  As soon as you create a dollar value opportunity cost for a CO to retain somebody, you will start to find units that take the money and dump the human.

Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2017, 20:53:07 »
I had to let my daughter go because of my job in the Canadian military

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/single-parent-military-1.4169806

Whenever I am asked if I recommend military life to other women, my answer is always categorically: no.

This usually surprises people who know me because I am a vocal feminist, a bit of a tomboy and a six-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). I believe to my core that sex and gender do not, and should not, limit what you can do in life. But women and the armed forces just don't mix.

More on link

Interesting article

Lots or character assassination and allegations over Facebook I've seen from this story. Also the good ol' I never complained once when I was posted bla bla (ya right).

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Offline FSTO

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2017, 21:13:56 »
I had to let my daughter go because of my job in the Canadian military

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/single-parent-military-1.4169806

Whenever I am asked if I recommend military life to other women, my answer is always categorically: no.

This usually surprises people who know me because I am a vocal feminist, a bit of a tomboy and a six-year veteran of the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). I believe to my core that sex and gender do not, and should not, limit what you can do in life. But women and the armed forces just don't mix.

More on link

Interesting article

Well that recruiter who told the whopper of a lie should be charged.

Offline ModlrMike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2017, 01:25:03 »
Well that recruiter who told the whopper of a lie should be charged.

You presume that it's the recruiter who's lying in this story. People don't generally tell tales that make themselves look bad.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 01:31:05 by ModlrMike »
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Offline FSTO

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2017, 05:59:17 »
You presume that it's the recruiter who's lying in this story. People don't generally tell tales that make themselves look bad.

True, my mistake. For her to believe that she would be able to be a medic and never go to the field is very naive. Then most people who first join the CAF have many misconceptions of what they are getting into.

Offline Remius

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2017, 06:30:26 »
Back in the day, being a recruiter was being able to manage people's expectations. Many would only hear what they wanted.  We had to be very careful how we worded things and we never made any promises.  It was very frustrating dealing with people that wouldn't listen despite being told something.  The worst, from my time recruiting in Ottawa were spouses of serving members hoping to be posted in Petawawa to be with their significant other. They almost all wanted to be clerks, supply techs or postal techs.  They would all ask about being posted to Pet.  They would all be told the same thing that they could be posted anywhere they were needed. They would keep asking if it could be Pet.  If a recruiter made the mistake of saying yes it was a possibility but not a guarantee, the only thing they heard was the yes part and would tune out the the rest.

This happened a lot with other things as well.  So when I read these stories and the mention what a recruiter said to them I take it with a grain of salt.  I nearly lost it once with an applicant that argued with me about the fact that med tech support never deployed to the field.  It turned I to a one way conversation very quickly but he was never convinced about anything I said or showed him.  He just never wanted to go to the field and convinced himself that he knew better. 
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Offline Strike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2017, 08:08:38 »
True, my mistake. For her to believe that she would be able to be a medic and never go to the field is very naive. Then most people who first join the CAF have many misconceptions of what they are getting into.

I think part of the problem with the naiveté might be that we just aren't in the news the way we were when we were doing a combat mission in Afghanistan.  And so people quickly forget what it means to be in the military.  For the average Joe coming off the street they likely don't understand that, just because we don't have one massive deployment going on that they are familiar with (nobody cares that we have a bunch of smaller ones) we are still always on the go with courses and exercises and whatever.

And as Remius said, sometimes people just hear what they want to hear when they're being told what the job is all about.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2017, 22:30:44 »
This happened a lot with other things as well.  So when I read these stories and the mention what a recruiter said to them I take it with a grain of salt.  I nearly lost it once with an applicant that argued with me about the fact that med tech support never deployed to the field.  It turned I to a one way conversation very quickly but he was never convinced about anything I said or showed him.  He just never wanted to go to the field and convinced himself that he knew better.

As a recruiter, can you not then refuse their application and go tell them to find a job at the Subway down the road?
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Online mariomike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2017, 23:34:18 »
I nearly lost it once with an applicant that argued with me about the fact that med tech support never deployed to the field

The Applicant must not have read the online Med Tech job description.

He just never wanted to go to the field and convinced himself that he knew better.

Hopefully, the Interviewer would discuss that under "your understanding of the job you selected."

•Read the section “Life in the CF”
Research the jobs you have listed on your application.
•Prepare answers to the following common questions:
◦Where does basic training take place? For how long?
◦Where does the occupational training take place for the jobs you are interested in?
◦How long will you be in training before you are completely qualified?
◦What is the role of your preferred job in the Forces?
◦Where might you serve?
◦What do you like about the jobs you listed on the application?
◦What are the negative elements of the jobs you listed on the application?
http://www.forces.ca/en/page/applynow-100
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 00:09:23 by mariomike »

Offline Messerschmitt

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2017, 23:36:49 »
As a recruiter, can you not then refuse their application and go tell them to find a job at the Subway down the road?

You can always "lose" it. Had several friends who's applications were "lost" and they were not the annoying kind of folks. Also, I've had my share of experiences with recruiters and they definitely don't know it all and often make mistakes in what they say (and genuinely losing paperwork, or maybe it get's lost in the system, who knows). So it's a 2-way street.

Online mariomike

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2017, 23:58:19 »
You can always "lose" it. Had several friends who's applications were "lost" and they were not the annoying kind of folks. Also, I've had my share of experiences with recruiters and they definitely don't know it all and often make mistakes in what they say (and genuinely losing paperwork, or maybe it get's lost in the system, who knows). So it's a 2-way street.

Those sound like clerical errors, rather than an applicant not reading the job description.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2017, 00:12:19 by mariomike »

Offline Starlight1

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2017, 16:55:00 »
While I feel for the situation these 2 women have found themselves in, and can see that there was much in the process beyond their control, what I fail to understand is the victim mentality and little personal accountability.  When your chosen career becomes no longer compatible with a family life that is acceptable to you, there are choices to be made.  If you can't meet the requirements of the job, it's time to consider other options.  Seriously.  Many of us have done that.  I released from the Reg F when my kids were small as it was in the family's best interests.  I came back to Res F and eventually Reg F when I could meet the expectations.  I'm not a single parent, but with a Reg F spouse, there is a lot of time when you have to parent alone for extended periods.  Robust family care plans are crucial if you don't have the other parent around. 

Clearly these are multiple factors in each of these cases, and the organization/CoC has been less than helpful according to the articles.  I have issue with what I see is a sense of entitlement that the system owes them something (aside from all the benefits of a medical release) when they are no longer able to do the job.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2017, 00:20:44 »
Those sound like clerical errors, rather than an applicant not reading the job description.

Or the actions of conscientious recruiters who know that someone isn't suitable, but don't have the formal tools to say 'no, go back to the skateboarding park', or words to that effect.
"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline CountDC

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2017, 15:53:51 »
I  only know personally one single person that was adversely affected by the military to the point of needing to choose between it and their child.  That person was male with custody of his daughter that restricted him to the province the mother lived in.  When the military posted him out and would not change it when  asked he submitted his release.  He didn't cry about it or blame the military as he understood the military can not accommodate everyone's wishes.  He transferred to the reserves and took a class b job so he could have it his way.
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Offline gryphonv

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2017, 16:09:35 »
I  only know personally one single person that was adversely affected by the military to the point of needing to choose between it and their child.  That person was male with custody of his daughter that restricted him to the province the mother lived in.  When the military posted him out and would not change it when  asked he submitted his release.  He didn't cry about it or blame the military as he understood the military can not accommodate everyone's wishes.  He transferred to the reserves and took a class b job so he could have it his way.

I know personally many people who's families ended in divorce, lost custody of children, etc due to complications from Military Service.Some people make it work, but in the end the military lifestyle still puts a lot of stress on families. It's not always the main factor but it almost always is a contributing factor.

I personally will never think bad on a person for deciding that their family is more important then their career.


Offline CountDC

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #68 on: June 27, 2017, 10:59:56 »
but in the end it is a matter of personal choice.  I hate it when people blame the military for all their issues when it is a matter of choice.  We choose to stay or go on a regular basis based on our wants,  needs and own situation. On a regular basis we assess our situation to determine what is best for us and make our choice.  I have had occasion where release was a close choice based on the situation I was in but then a change occurred that resulted in me staying.

I am also not overly fond of the "I am a single parent" mantra.  There is only so long that card can be played after becoming a single parent.  At some point you do have to straighten up and determine the plan ahead whether it is to find another career or someone to care for your child while you are away.   If you can't find someone then there is short term possibilities such as compassionate postings to help but it is still something you have to find the solution for.

"When the power of love, overcomes the love of power....the world will know peace" - Jimi Hendrix [1942-1970]

Offline gryphonv

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2017, 11:34:29 »
I agree, ultimately they need to be responsible for their own decisions.

But I think the crux of the problem starts at recruitment. We have had recruiters that tell applicants things that may not be completely true, many of these applicants dont find out how untrue those statements were until well into their trade training. We have a political push trying to promote how good we are to single parents among other things.

I'm not saying all recruiters are like this, but it is far more common to hear about lies or misinformation recruitment told some applicants.

This situation was different because she became a Single Mom after she was already in, probably something outside of her control.

In the end the military is a great career but it can be very difficult for some more than others. We shouldn't sugar coat this just to get people to sign up.

Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #70 on: June 27, 2017, 11:41:55 »
In the end the military is a great career but it can be very difficult for some more than others. We shouldn't sugar coat this just to get people to sign up.

You mean like our recent recruiting campaign?

Canadian Armed Forces targets millennials with new campaign

Effort marks the organization's first recruitment campaign in four years

Drummond says the armed forces aims to hire 10,000 new recruits per year and has to do so by reaching millennials who are looking for personal fulfillment through work. “Luckily the armed forces is truly a job that does that.”

http://marketingmag.ca/advertising/canadian-armed-forces-targets-millennials-with-new-campaign-137710/

"The most important qualification of a soldier is fortitude under fatigue and privation. Courage is only second; hardship, poverty and want are the best school for a soldier." Napoleon

Offline gryphonv

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #71 on: June 27, 2017, 11:59:58 »
You mean like our recent recruiting campaign?

Canadian Armed Forces targets millennials with new campaign



I haven't watched the video or really followed the new campaign, but in the end we do need to recruit people, and unfortunately Millennials will have to be the biggest pool of recruits. And recruiters have to 'sell' it. I just feel it can be done better, maybe have a little less applicants but also have less people who believe things that are simply not true, and or feel they were lied to.

A big problem I've noticed is the outward migration after people do their initial contracts, I'd rather find ways to keep more of those people in vs need to replace them with green recruits. I think the best way to that starts with being as brutally honest as possible during recruitment.

Offline Journeyman

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #72 on: June 27, 2017, 12:20:01 »
..... she became a Single Mom after she was already in, probably something outside of her control.
Damn you, Immaculate Conception.

Crusades, assorted Inquisitions, the Reformation.... and now, this.   When will the madness end?
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Offline Tcm621

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #73 on: June 27, 2017, 12:24:33 »
The single biggest thing we can do to recruit quality people is make the process shorter. I was processed in 2 months when everything was by paper or message traffic, 8 months to a year is unacceptable. The quality applicants have options and while some, who really, really want to be in the forces, will stick it out most will move on to another job opportunity because they need a job now, not a maybe in a year.

When you add in huge wait tines for courses, you are getting people at the operational units that are jaded towards the CF. It took me more than a decade to really and truly jaded. These people don't want to stay in past their initial. Again the good ones have options, so we end up with people who really want to be here and people who can't think of anything better to do. Look around your workplace and see what you think the ratio of the former to the latter is.


Back on topic a bit:

Can anyone tell me how a family care plan is supposed to help? It seems to be the go to response when command wants you to do things that have a potentially devastating effect on your family. I can plan all I want to but at a certain point, barring emergency, i just can't afford to have daycare on 24 standby. My wife can't up and leave her job when it is convenient for the military (although if it is an operational requirement, she does her part to make it work).
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 12:29:30 by Tcm621 »

Offline gryphonv

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Re: Single mom now facing medical release from military
« Reply #74 on: June 27, 2017, 12:55:40 »
Damn you, Immaculate Conception.

Crusades, assorted Inquisitions, the Reformation.... and now, this.   When will the madness end?

Becoming a mother is quite in her control, becoming a single mother is in the control of the sperm donor.