Author Topic: 58 dead 546 wounded / injured in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017  (Read 28383 times)

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Offline FJAG

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2017, 00:26:04 »
At the moment, the Daily Mail has one of the better coverages of this incident.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4942856/Las-Vegas-gunman-SIXTEEN-guns-TEN-suitcases.html

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Offline EpicBeardedMan

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2017, 00:29:12 »
There's been no credible media sources stating a "belt fed machine gun" was found. That term is only being used by those pushing an immediate counter-gun agenda. There are reports that 2 devices, likely "bump stocks" were found to be able to convert semi-automatic AR-15s and AK-47s to automatic fire. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/vegas-shooters-weapons-cache-included-devices-enabling-automatic-gunfire-report-says.html Bump stock demonstration video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gWrthH2OK4

Stating that someone had access to, and used a belt fed machine gun serves nothing but to further scare an already scared public, and push an agenda. Its hyperbole at its finest. In my 15 years in the CAF firing all sorts of NATO and Soviet-bloc weapons, nothing in the audio suggests to me "belt-fed machine gun". There's magazine/weapons swap time inbetween bursts, and distinct changes in audio from caliber changes.

Definitely wasn't a belt fed machine gun, you can see exactly when he reloads or grabs a new weapon every time. There's a consistent lull every time the shooting stops then starts back up again.
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2017, 03:38:19 »
It appears that the shooter used a bump stock to increase the rate of fire.

http://www.slidefire.com

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2017, 04:44:57 »
More on ISIS's claim of responsibility ...
Quote
ISIS Claims Attack At Las Vegas Music Festival, Says ‎Attacker Converted To Islam A Few Months Ago
October 02, 2017

On October 2, 2017, the Islamic State (ISIS) news agency A'maq claimed responsibility for the previous evening's deadly shooting attack at a country music festival in Las Vegas, in which over 50 people were killed and several hundred wounded.

Police identified the attacker as 64-year-old Stephen Craig Paddock. In its statement, ISIS did not refer to the Paddock by name, noting only that the attacker "is a soldier of the Islamic State, and [that he] carried out the operation in response to [ISIS] calls to target coalition countries."

ISIS further noted that the attacker converted to Islam a few months ago.

UPDATE: Following its initial claim of responsibility, ISIS posted a second statement about the Las Vegas attack that said that "around 600 cross worshippers" had been killed and wounded in a "blessed attack" in the city.

The statement referred to Paddock as "one of the caliphate soldiers" and identified him by the name Abu 'Abd Al-Bar Al-Amriki. It also said that the attack was a response to ISIS leader Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi's recent call to target "Crusader coalition countries."

The attack itself appears to have been premeditated, as the ISIS statement said that Al-Amriki had conducted "detailed surveillance" of "Crusader gathering [places] in Las Vegas." It also said that Al-Amriki had been martyred after running out of ammunition ...
... and from MSM (remembering the usual "initial reports" caveats):
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 06:34:12 by milnews.ca »
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Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2017, 06:33:45 »
... aaaaaaaaaand a caveat on the ISIS claim:
Quote
ISIS Takes Credit For A Lot Of Mass Shootings. You Shouldn’t Always Believe Them
Sarah Sicard, Task & Purpose blog, October 2, 2017

On the evening of Oct. 1, 64-year-old Stephen Paddock opened fire on the Route 91 Harvest country music festival from a room in the Mandalay Bay hotel in Las Vegas. The mass shooting, the worst in modern U.S. history, left at least 58 people dead and more than half a thousand injured. It was an act that President Donald Trump called “an act of pure evil.”

Hours later, ISIS claimed responsibility.

Through its propaganda news arm al-Amaq, the terror group claimed that Paddock — one of its newest “soldiers” — had converted to Islam in recent months and taken the name “Abu Abd Abdulbar al-Ameriki” before arming building up a suspected arsenal of at least 19 rifles and hundreds of rounds of ammunition. This is a scary, and believable, possibility: Between its inception in 2014 and Trump’s assumption of the presidency at the end of January, ISIS has conducted 143 attacks in 29 countries, killing 2,042.

There’s one problem, however: ISIS is probably full of crap.

In a press conference on Oct. 2, the Federal Bureau of Investigation immediately rebuked ISIS’s claims, stating that the attack appears to have no international terror connection whatsoever; later that day, Las Vegas Sheriff Joseph Lombardo made an important and telling distinction, describing the shooting as a lone wolf attack that has yet to garner the classification as “terrorism” at all. ISIS’s claim, when taken with the glaring lack of evidence suggesting a connection to Paddock, is a boast designed to scare paranoid citizens — a boast that actually highlights the group’s slow and steady decline.

“The statements are absent of any details that would suggest any type of coordination between ISIS and the perpetrator,” Laith Alkhouri, counterterrorism expert and founder of Flashpoint monitoring service, told & Task & Purpose. “This appears to be an ISIS attempt to capitalize on the frenzy and gain propaganda value.”  ...
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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2017, 06:44:03 »
They would probably claim Hitler or even the iceberg that sank the Titanic if they could.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2017, 07:40:05 »
“The risk of insult is the price of clarity.” -- Roy H. Williams

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2017, 08:03:35 »
British troops from 1st Queens Dragoon Guards on holiday in Vegas rushed to render aid. :salute:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4942216/British-troops-holiday-Las-Vegas-helped-wounded.html?ITO=1490

Off duty British troops on holiday in Las Vegas rushed to help the wounded after today's massacre, it has been revealed.
The soldiers - from the 1st Queen's Dragoon Guards - administered emergency first aid to the injured after a lone-wolf gunman unleashed thousands of rounds of ammunition onto a music festival killing at least 58 people and injuring hundreds.



« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 11:14:03 by tomahawk6 »

Offline mariomike

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2017, 10:27:17 »
Firefighter Started CPR on a Las Vegas Shooting Victim, Then Got Shot in the Chest.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/firefighter-was-performing-cpr-on-las-vegas-victim-when-he-was-shot

Paramedic Recalls ‘Agonizing’ Decisions He Had to Make While Rescuing People in Las Vegas Shooting
http://people.com/crime/las-vegas-shooting-paramedic-recalls-agonizing-decisions/

Group of Paramedics with bullet resistant vests & ballistic helmets in Las Vegas.
https://media.metrolatam.com/2017/10/02/las-vegas-tiroteio.jpg

Local agencies review emergency protocol after Vegas massacre
http://nbc24.com/news/local/local-agencies-review-emergency-protocol-after-vegas-massacre



The Las Vegas massacre dominates Tuesday's front pages around the world.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 10:45:37 by mariomike »

Offline Colin P

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2017, 10:49:41 »
The bump stock falls into a bit of a gray zone, I suspect BATF will suggest rewording of the regs to ban them and the Trump Administration will agree with support from the NRA. They could adopt the Canadian wording that does ban them.

I suspect that all large open air events in the US will have police snipers stationed above for some time.

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2017, 11:20:37 »
... I suspect BATF will suggest rewording of the regs to ban them and the Trump Administration will agree with support from the NRA ...
I'm about 50-50 on the orange bit, but I'd be mighty surprised if the bit in yellow happened - although the NRA did support some ownership limits on people with mental health issues before POTUS45 pulled said regs earlier this year.
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Offline mariomike

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Offline Jarnhamar

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2017, 12:31:25 »
It's sad how desperately people want this to fit their own narrative.  Lots of grief tourism as well.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 12:36:44 by Jarnhamar »
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Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2017, 12:40:08 »
It's sad how desperately people want this to fit their own narrative.  Lots of grief tourism as well.

I agree. Both pro-gun and anti-gun camps seemed to jump to the defence (as always with these events) to defend their views. Undoubtedly, the conversation needs to be on answering the pressing question- why are there so many mass shootings in the US? The answer is invariably complex and would undoubtedly incorporate elements of mental health, gun control, and a general culture shift.

Offline mariomike

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2017, 12:52:37 »
Lots of grief tourism as well.

I wonder if Las Vegas will experience something similar, on a lesser scale, to New York City in 2001?

After 9/11, approximately 9,000 grief counselors descended on NYC.
 

« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 12:55:22 by mariomike »

Offline Colin P

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2017, 13:58:32 »
Most mass shooting are a fairly recent phenomenon as well, problem there is that it might indicate that current social norms in education and parenting might be incorrect, which affects many rice bowels. That being said, nothing in this case appears to be similar to other instances. This one is closer to terrorism. Perhaps forfeiture of all the estate, wiping of name from records and scattering of ashes into toxic waste might be standard. Basically do everything to destroy their legacy and their previous existence. If people know that might be the end result, any glory or fame is lost helping to reduce that as a motivator.

   

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2017, 14:08:11 »
... The answer is invariably complex and would undoubtedly incorporate elements of mental health, gun control, and a general culture shift.
Well put.  This is why I agree with many of those who say, "the first week's not the best time to discuss solutions while the wound is still fresh."  A few say that as a cop-out, but figuring out real solutions needs a lot of issue wrestling based on the whole picture, not one huge, tragic incident.
... problem there is that it might indicate that current social norms in education and parenting might be incorrect, which affects many rice bowels ...
... forfeiture of all the estate, wiping of name from records and scattering of ashes into toxic waste might be standard. Basically do everything to destroy their legacy and their previous existence. If people know that might be the end result, any glory or fame is lost helping to reduce that as a motivator.
Methinks that if mental illness is involved, depending on the illness, even that won't make a difference ...
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Offline Colin P

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2017, 14:14:39 »
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition. Clearly he was a capable individual, unless something had change shortly before. His lack of empathy and likely sense of self importance might be reasons for this event. Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.   

Offline milnews.ca

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2017, 15:11:57 »
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition.
You're right - I should qualify re:  "depending on the mental illness involved".   I was just touching on the fact that if someone has their heart/mind pathologically set on destroying themselves/others, erasing their memory from the face of the earth still wouldn't stop them.
Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.
I like that idea.
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Offline daftandbarmy

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2017, 16:57:28 »
I know some people who were just coming back from Disney in California as this happened.

They said that every entrance way was guarded, and had them passing through bag checks etc. They felt totally safe in a crowded facility with tens of thousands of people.

Las Vegas is a similar 'theme park' and may - like other big venues - may need to move to that level of security one day.
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Offline Brad Sallows

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2017, 17:14:58 »
>Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.

Sometimes it's easier to stick with what we already have: "run amok".
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Offline PuckChaser

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2017, 17:19:01 »
Why do we need a new term? Someone killing people without religious, political or racial agenda/views is a murderer. Are we just making up a term because we don't want to offend terrorists for being called terrorists? Or because unfortunately some people cannot delink the term terrorist for Islam?

Offline Eaglelord17

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2017, 17:26:48 »
Mental illness does not mean people are unaware or incapable, it's a broad definition. Clearly he was a capable individual, unless something had change shortly before. His lack of empathy and likely sense of self importance might be reasons for this event. Clearly he put some planning into it. Which is why I would suggest a new definition of "Singular Terrorism" for someone not acting with a religious, cultural or politically motivated reason.

They have a term for it, and it is called being a Murdering Coward.

No need to reinvent the wheel for what things are called, and instead just call a spade a spade. Instead of calling him a shooter, the media should be calling him a murderer. Terrorist as far as I am concerned, is just more or less a buzzword which people often apply incorrectly because we have a irrational fear of the word, much as the term 'hate crime' is often passed around the same way. Those words are based around motives, which can be very hard to determine. Murder on the other hand is pretty straight cut, as you simply have to kill someone intentionally to be a murderer.

Offline mariomike

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2017, 17:29:06 »
Sometimes it's easier to stick with what we already have: "run amok".

"Shooting spree" still works for me. That's the term I remember they used for the "Texas Tower Sniper".

« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 17:32:11 by mariomike »

Offline Bird_Gunner45

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Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2017, 19:45:04 »
Why do we need a new term? Someone killing people without religious, political or racial agenda/views is a murderer. Are we just making up a term because we don't want to offend terrorists for being called terrorists? Or because unfortunately some people cannot delink the term terrorist for Islam?

You're right that the defiintion of terrorism is, "The use of violence or the threat of violence, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political goals". That said, we can't say if he's a murderer or a terrorist until we know the motive, which seems to be the question of the hour. Clearly, something made him commit a premeditated attack on this concert. It'll be interesting to see what that something was.