Author Topic: 58 dead 546 wounded / injured in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017  (Read 28294 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bird_Gunner45

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 52,421
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,106
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2017, 20:07:12 »
Well put.  This is why I agree with many of those who say, "the first week's not the best time to discuss solutions while the wound is still fresh."  A few say that as a cop-out, but figuring out real solutions needs a lot of issue wrestling based on the whole picture, not one huge, tragic incident.

I disagree with the needing to have a week to heal for one simple reason- Las Vegas is simply another horrific incident in the long line of horrific incidents which has plagued the US. Charleston, Sandy Hook, Orlando, San Bernardino, Binghamton immigrant shootings, Virginia Tech, Columbine and others are not "one offs" like was initially thought after the columbine shootings. They're a chronic blight on the US nation. US citizens should be incensed that this continues to happen and more incenced that their leaders of both political stripes refuse to confront the real issues as to "why" this continues to occur. No one should be "shocked" this happened based on the history of gun violence. No one should really even be surprised. That's not to lesson the horrific nature of the act by any means. It's just the reality that in 4-12 months there'll be another mass shooting followed by another one, etc, etc, etc, unless someone actually shows the morale courage and intestinal fortitude to confront the real problems.

The reality is that mass shootings are a reality in the US that largely dont exist elsewhere and certainly not to the extent that they do in the US. According to the FBI there have been an average of 16.4 mass shootings in the US each year from 2007 to present (mass shooting being defined as an event with more than 4 injuries related to the shooting). Politicians and leaders in the US need to say "enough is enough" and put real, non-partisan, thought, discussion, and blood into confronting the problem that faces them instead of doing the partisan grand standing that followed the other mass shootings listed above.  If the politicians need to be motivated to push for change they should watch "Newtown" on netflix about Sandy Hook.

Offline Retired AF Guy

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 36,835
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,572
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2017, 20:55:05 »
Write-up on Stephen Paddock. It will be interesting to see as the authorities gather miore information on him.

Quote
Who is Stephen Paddock? Las Vegas gunman's father was 'psychopathic' bank robber on FBI most-wanted list

Before he opened fire late Sunday, the gunman Stephen Paddock lived a quiet life for years in a small town outside Las Vegas


Washington Post
 
October 2, 2017
8:08 PM EDT

Stephen Paddock – the man believed to have opened fire on a country music festival on the Las Vegas strip, killing at least 59 on Sunday – was the son of a “psychopathic” bank robber who was once on the FBI’s most wanted list.

Officials confirmed to the Washington Post on Monday that Paddock’s father was Benjamin Hoskins Paddock – a convicted armed bank robber and confidence man who escaped prison in 1969, when Stephen Paddock was 15 years old. His FBI wanted poster says he was “diagnosed as psychopathic” with “reportedly suicidal tendencies.” Despite his most-wanted status, the elder Paddock — who went by “Big Daddy,” “Chromedome” and “Old Baldy” — was on the lam for nearly a decade before he was arrested while running a bingo parlour in Oregon in 1978.

Benjamin Hoskins Paddock, the father of Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock, seen in an FBI mugshot. The elder Paddock was on the FBI most-wanted list after escaping prison in 1969.  According to relatives, Stephen Paddock appeared to have chosen a decidedly quieter life than his father, living in a retirement community outside Las Vegas — gambling, attending concerts and taking cruises. Public records show he was a licensed pilot, who owned two planes. And he had a hunting license from Alaska.

The 64-year-old disappeared for days to frequent casinos, neighbours said, where he often gambled in the tens of thousands of dollars. “My brother is not like you and me. He plays high-stakes video poker,” Paddock’s brother Eric said. “He sends me a text that says he won $250,000 at the casino.”

For several years, Paddock appeared to live in Mesquite, Texas. But property records show he chose to move to another town named Mesquite in Nevada, where he bought a home in 2013 and has been living there ever since.

“We have no idea how this happened,” Paddock’s brother Eric, who lives in Florida, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “It’s like an asteroid just fell on top of our family.”

“When you get a phonecall that says your brother just killed a bunch of people,” he told reporters gathered in his driveway, before breaking off, trying to hold back tears.

Eric told CNN that he last heard from his brother when Paddock checked in to see how their mother was doing in Florida after Hurricane Irma wiped out power in the area. After they spoke, Paddock sent his mother a new walker, “because she was having trouble walking,” Eric said.

“We’re f—d up. I mean, I’ve got a 90-year-old mother whose son just killed 50-plus people and now is dead,” he said. “He’s just a guy who played video poker and took cruises and ate burritos at Taco Bell. There’s no political affiliation that we know of. There’s no religious affiliation that we know of.”

Drapes billow out of broken windows at the Mandalay Bay resort and casino on Monday, on the Las Vegas Strip following a deadly shooting at a music festival. John Locher / Associated Press
Paddock’s family said there was nothing in his past that would suggest violence.

“We are in complete shock bewilderment and horror. We have absolutely no idea how in the world Steve did this. Absolutely no concept,” said one relative, who spoke anonymously to avoid hurting other relatives. “There was nothing secret or strange about him.”

For several years, the gunman lived with his girlfriend, Marilou Danley, in a retirement community in Reno, Nevada, neighbours said. They said they interacted with Danley but not with Paddock, whom they described as extremely standoffish. Danley told residents there that Paddock was a professional gambler, explaining their long absences from the neighbourhood.

Called Del Webb, the neighbourhood is a relatively new active-adult community of single-family homes with desert views and a clubhouse with a gym and pool.

Harold Allred, who lives up the street from the couple, said his wife often ran into Danley in exercise classes or social gatherings. Allred said he and his wife found Danley unremarkable, though perhaps a little odd, and didn’t know Paddock. “He was reclusive,” said Allred, 66. “We never met him.”

Paddock lived in a number of retirement communities. In addition to the Reno home, Paddock and Danley had another home in Mesquite, Nevada, said neighbours. In recent years, he had moved to Nevada from Melbourne, Florida. And he had previously lived in Texas and California, where he had married once and later divorced.

In Reno, Diane McKay lived next door to Paddock and Danley until July, when McKay moved to a different community, but she said she only ran into Danley occasionally when both women happened to be pulling weeds from their front yards. Danley wasn’t forthcoming about her life, and Paddock was aggressively unfriendly, McKay recalled. She only saw him in the mornings, when he went to the clubhouse to work out. Occasionally, he would open the garage door, revealing a large safe the size of a refrigerator. Other than that, the couple kept their blinds closed.

“He was weird. Kept to himself,” said McKay, 79, who described Paddock as small but in pretty good shape. “It was like living next to nothing. . . . You can at least be grumpy, something. He was just nothing, quiet. He never went out in the back and enjoyed the back yard, nature. They had a little back yard, 17 feet to the fence and hill. But the blinds were always closed.”

On Monday morning, police released a picture of Danley, saying they were searching for her as a person of interest. They later said they she was out of the country, and has been located and detained. Authorities called her a companion of Paddock.

Las Vegas police said authorities were in the process of searching Paddock’s home in Mesquite, Nevada, on Monday morning. Quinn Averett, a spokesman for Mesquite Police in Nevada said Paddock was unknown to local authorities in the city where he owns a home 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Mesquite police have no recorded interactions with Paddock. Las Vegas police said this about Paddock:

“We have no investigative information or background associated with this individual that is derogatory,” Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said. “The only thing we can tell is he received a citation several years ago, that citation was handled as a matter of normal practice in the court system.”

After the shooting, Paddock was found dead by officers on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Casino, Lombardo said during a news briefing. Authorities said he killed himself.

Police believe Paddock was a “lone wolf” attacker. Lombardo did not give further details, however, on Paddock’s background or possible motivation.

“We have no idea what his belief system was,” Lombardo said. “Right now, we believe he was the sole aggressor.”

The FBI said Paddock was not connected to an international terror group on Monday after the Islamic State claimed responsibility for the attack. But the group, which has repeatedly made false or exaggerated claims, gave no proof to its assertion that Paddock was “a soldier” who had converted to Islam months ago.

Recordings of the attack suggested that Paddock used an automatic weapon. Paddock, who arrived at the hotel on Thursday, was found with more than 10 rifles, Lombardo said. Relatives said they knew Paddock owned guns, but believed they were legal. When

“No, not an avid gun guy at all,” Paddock’s brother Eric told reporters. “The fact that he had those kind of weapons is, just – where the hell did he get automatic weapons? He has no military background or anything like that.

“Like I said, he’s a guy who lived in a house in Mesquite; drove down and gambled in Las Vegas. He did stuff, ate burritos.”

—With files from National Post staff

Article Link
Years ago, fairy tales all began with, "Once upon a time." Now we know they all began with, "If I'm elected."

Carolyn Warner

Offline Cloud Cover

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 28,000
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 3,722
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2017, 11:05:21 »
CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'
Interesting...

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act...
 http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/top-cbs-lawyer-no-sympathy-for-vegas-vics-probably-republicans.html

 CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'

CBS has parted ways with one of the company’s top lawyers after she said she was “not even sympathetic” to victims of the Las Vegas shooting because “country music fans often are Republican,” when discussing the mass shooting that unfolded in Las Vegas late Sunday night.

Monday night she issued a statement of apology.

Hayley Geftman-Gold, the network's now-former vice president and senior counsel, said, “Earlier today I posted an indefensible post in a Facebook discussion thread concerning the tragic Las Vegas shooting, a statement I sincerely regret. I am deeply sorry for diminishing the significance of every life affected by Stephen Paddock’s terrorism last night and for the pain my words have inflicted on the loved ones of the victims. My shameful comments do not reflect the beliefs of my former employer, colleagues, family, and friends. Nor do they reflect my actual beliefs — this senseless violence warrants the deepest empathy. I understand and accept all consequences that my words have incurred.”


A CBS spokeswoman told Fox News that Geftman-Gold, “who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families.”

Geftman-Gold took to Facebook after a gunman opened fire at the Route 91 Harvest Music Festival in Las Vegas, killing at least 59 people and sending more than 510 others to hospitals.

“If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs [sic] will ever do the right thing,” Geftman-Gold wrote in a now-deleted message that was first reported and captured by The Daily Caller.

Geftman-Gold continued: “I’m actually not even sympathetic bc [sic] country music fans often are Republican gun toters [sic].”

Geftman-Gold is presumably referring to Sandy Hook, which occurred in Newtown, Conn. back in 2012. A 20-year-old gunman, Adam Lanza, killed 20 children and six adults during the tragic event that sparked intense political debates regarding gun control.

Her attorney, Carrie A. Goldberg, responded: “In the last few hours my client, her family and friends have been bombarded by online death unimaginable in quantity and detail. We beg people to show love and support to survivors and loved ones — in Las Vegas and their own lives — instead of creating more violence.”

Geftman-Gold did not work directly with the network’s news division. According to her LinkedIn bio, Geftman-Gold worked at CBS since September 2016 and graduated from the prestigious Columbia University law school in 2000.

Brian Flood covers the media for Fox News.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2017, 11:10:48 »
CBS fires vice president who said Vegas victims didn't deserve sympathy because country music fans 'often are Republican'

See Reply #20.
https://army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,126688.msg1505176.html#msg1505176

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 435,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,572
  • Crewman
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2017, 18:54:28 »
I know some people who were just coming back from Disney in California as this happened.

They said that every entrance way was guarded, and had them passing through bag checks etc. They felt totally safe in a crowded facility with tens of thousands of people.

Las Vegas is a similar 'theme park' and may - like other big venues - may need to move to that level of security one day.

I imagine similar precautions were taken at this venue.  Unfortunately, the shooter was outside the venue shooting in.
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2017, 19:04:52 »
Unfortunately, the shooter was outside the venue shooting in.

Survivors of the massacre described it "like shooting fish in a barrel".
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22las+vegas%22+%22fish+in+a+barrel%22&dcr=0&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A10%2F1%2F2017%2Ccd_max%3A&tbm=

NYPD Will Train Hotel Workers To Spot Weapons, Suspicious Behavior In Wake Of Las Vegas Shooting
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/10/04/nypd-hotel-training/

Unless you open all the guest's bags it may not work.
http://www.gunsandammo.com/network-topics/the-gear-network/10-covert-tactical-gun-case-options/

The International Association of Firefighters says 15 off-duty Firefighters were shot in Las Vegas
http://www.firehouse.com/news/12372281/iaff-says-15-off-duty-firefighters-shot-in-las-vegas-mandalay-bay-shooting-firefighter-news

Number of people living in Nevada (2016): 2,940,058 ( Does not include visitors. )
Number of Level 1 Trauma Centers in Nevada: 1
https://khn.org/news/las-vegas-tragedy-prompts-examination-of-hospitals-capacity-to-treat-victims/

Washington DC's plan to handle a major emergency following Las Vegas shooting.
http://wjla.com/news/local/dcs-plan-to-handle-a-major-emergency-following-las-vegas-shooting

Fate Of Vegas Shooter's Sniper's 'Nest': "The Room Disappears"
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 18:56:39 by mariomike »

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 101,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,363
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2017, 09:32:14 »
Accounts by British troopers of trying to help the wounded as bullets flew. I hope these soldiers get some award for their heroism under fire.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/6-british-soldiers-jumped-in-to-help-strip-shooting-victims-on-sunday/

British Troopers Ross Woodward, Chris May and Stuart Finlay planned on a night of drinking and gambling in Las Vegas to blow off some steam following six weeks of rigorous training alongside their American counterparts at Fort Irwin, California.
The trio — all members of the 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards — paused for a moment when they heard the sound of gunfire echoing down the Strip on Sunday.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2017, 21:57:20 »
From what I have read, 16 Rescue Task Forces were deployed. Each RTF consisted of four to six police officers, who created a perimeter around three paramedics. The paramedics treated and transported the wounded to ambulances under the blanket of safety those police officers provided, moving in unison with police from patient to patient.

Complicating matters was people with gunshot wounds showing up at various hotels. The calls were dispatched as a report of a shooter at each hotel. The calls initially generated more than 30 different possible shootings along the Las Vegas strip.

With people scattering into hotels, to the airport tarmac, and into neighbourhoods, the response area was stretched to about a mile.

Some trampling injuries resulted in the stampede.

In some cases, uninjured people piled on top of the wounded who had been loaded into pick-up trucks.
In one case, ten people ( some wounded ) were crammed into a compact car.

RTF training has been focused on active shooters at ground level, not firing from an elevated position.

In the city where I live, the optimal Rescue Task Force, with police protection, to active shooter incidents is one paramedic supervisor, two paramedics and four firefighters.


Offline Jarnhamar

  • Army.ca Subscriber
  • Army.ca Legend
  • *
  • 269,351
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 10,345
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #58 on: October 08, 2017, 09:39:04 »
CNN demonstrates how a bump stock works. (Apparently a bunch of us here own a bump stock too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMk9ZGseUY

This has to be a hoax. CNN can't be this F-ed up. But if not bravo to them for the addition of an M203, silencer and ACOG. They probably couldn't figure out how to add a bayonet to it.
There are no wolves on Fenris

Offline George Wallace

  • Army.ca Fossil
  • *****
  • 435,945
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 31,572
  • Crewman
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #59 on: October 08, 2017, 09:59:06 »
CNN demonstrates how a bump stock works. (Apparently a bunch of us here own a bump stock too?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsMk9ZGseUY

This has to be a hoax. CNN can't be this F-ed up. But if not bravo to them for the addition of an M203, silencer and ACOG. They probably couldn't figure out how to add a bayonet to it.

The follow on video after that linked video was, however, very informative:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6oaRAgdslE
DISCLAIMER: The opinions and arguments of George Wallace posted on this Site are solely those of George Wallace and not the opinion of Army.ca and are posted for information purposes only.
Unless so stated, they are reflective of my opinion -- and my opinion only, a right that I enjoy along with every other Canadian citizen.

Offline MilEME09

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 35,430
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,531
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2017, 10:16:41 »
Well after talking with a coworker who was there, combined with the news reports, despite how bad it was, it sounds like it could of been a lot worse, thousands more rounds were found in the hotel room, and frankly it sounds like the guy was a poor shot but given the size of the crowd hitting people was going to happen regardless.
"We are called a Battalion, Authorized to be company strength, parade as a platoon, Operating as a section"

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2017, 10:20:05 »
Well after talking with a coworker who was there, combined with the news reports, despite how bad it was, it sounds like it could of been a lot worse, thousands more rounds were found in the hotel room, and frankly it sounds like the guy was a poor shot but given the size of the crowd hitting people was going to happen regardless.

Survivors of the massacre described it like shooting fish in a barrel.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=las+vegas+%22fish+in+a+barrel%22&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=yzPaWdSCMs7e8AfC06eADA&gws_rd=ssl
« Last Edit: October 08, 2017, 10:59:56 by mariomike »

Offline Thucydides

  • Army.ca Legend
  • *****
  • 194,295
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 13,670
  • Freespeecher
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2017, 01:43:03 »
Mark Styen weighs in with a possible motive:

https://www.steynonline.com/8162/theory-of-the-case

Quote
Theory of the Case
by Mark Steyn
Steyn on Fox
October 6, 2017
 
On Friday morning I started the day on the curvy couch with "Fox & Friends" to discuss the latest developments in the Las Vegas attack and the Democrats' push for "gun control". The perpetrator of the deadliest single-shooter massacre in US history is so unlike his predecessors that it seems to me that nothing in his history is coincidental: there is a reason for everything, even if we will never know it - all the way down to, for example, such peripheral details as the fact that he owned property in both Mesquite, Nevada and Mesquite, Texas.

It is also interesting to note that Stephen Paddock apparently cased the "Life is Beautiful" concert in Las Vegas, headlined by the rapper Chance. The victims at that event would have been very different from those at the country music festival, and the press coverage would have been, too: Democrats would have stampeded down the "white supremacy" track rather than "gun control". One senses that the killer, in his cold calculations, was aware, for whatever reason, of all these factors.

Click below to watch me with Steve, Abby and Brian:


Among the many emails I've received is this one, from a gentleman at a London think tank whose job is to focus on "the analysis of economic and political issues and outcomes". Make of this what you will, but he writes:

Today we turned our collective minds to the the shooting in Las Vegas as a test case since the event is extraordinary in that thus far no one appears to have identified a cause behind the carnage. This is our reasoning:

The fact pattern in this event is striking for not fitting any known profile. In particular:

The gentleman concerned had no known political or religious affiliations.

The level of premeditation is unusual and crystal clear from his mass buying of guns and the cautious systematic smuggling operation to ferry them to his room together with the illegal modifications and the position of the room he chose and occupied for several days beforehand.

This denotes a deeply serious commitment to his act. And one which leaves no doubt that act was conceived to generate the maximum possible publicity.

The question then is: 'publicity' for what exactly?

And the answer would appear to be 'nothing that can be identified'.

But consider the moral behind the following joke (I assure you it has a point beyond humour):

A known smuggler crosses the border every day at a particular crossing. Every day his suitcase is searched and nothing is found. After 20 years he crosses for a last time and confides to the policeman who has been searching him all that while that he is retiring.

The policeman asks him 'Ok - since you're clean today and will never cross the border again tell me this - you've been smuggling - right?'

The man says 'Right.'.The policeman says 'Smuggling what?'

The man says 'Suitcases.'

Hold that 'hiding in plain sight' concept as we return to the shooting. This man amassed (rough figures) 24 guns in the hotel and another 19 at his home - 42 guns in total. He spent some $100,000 on buying them. The guns at his home are one thing but he also spent days filling his hotel room with more weapons and ammunition than he could ever conceivably use along with an array of advanced modifications and accessories.

Everything brand new. And very expensive. And mostly entirely redundant. Representing in effect an enormous waste of money and time and risk.

Except that is in the realm of generating massive publicity. Guaranteed massive publicity.

Yet despite having gone to enormous lengths to achieve that goal we are asked to believe this same man never troubled - never took the most elementary steps - to speak to that publicity. Indeed left behind no trace of anything that might demonstrate indicate or even hint at his motive or motives.

That would appear to make very little sense.

We would argue the opposite - that it makes absolute sense.

Because this gentleman did not simply fail to leave behind a motive; He took substantial trouble to ensure that no motive could be found - or attributed to him. All of which can lead us to only one conclusion:

It has been said that 'the medium is the message'.

In this case that is the literal truth. There is only one plausible motive for what this man did. And here it is:

This man wished to telegraph to America in graphic form the hard irrefutable evidence that guns and gun ownership and the ease of gun purchase in America are an evil and must be controlled. On that hypothesis everything now makes sense. And it must be said his concept has a certain demented genius.

Because even if the public learns and believes that his motive was all about 'guns' the horror of the act itself - an act to protest such acts -
is in some ways even worse for being plain evidence that there is no limit to the insanity to which guns can be put.

Here then is our argument:

1. His long planned and carefully executed purchase of a virtual armoury of unprecedented scope and scale guaranteed that very armoury would inevitably become the central focus of the media.

2. His assiduous removal of evidence of any tangible motive also removed the possibility that the news cycle might move on from guns - simply the means of the killing - to considering the more interesting issues of motive and message - be it political or economic or environmental or anything else.

3. This man was a highly methodical and systematic thinker. Nothing in the scenario that unfolded was left to chance - even down to positioning cameras to surveil the corridor. It is therefore inconceivable that this was all done in this precise manner for no reason. That there is no message.

But of course there is indeed a message. It only happens to be implicit instead of explicit. That message is 'guns'. And that message is being trawled over every minute of every day on every network in America. Given the nature of the man and the facts this is not a chance outcome. On the contrary given the known facts it is indeed the only possible outcome. An outcome so obvious that anyone given the full story beforehand would have predicted as inevitable.

4. The people he chose to kill supports the hypothesis on 'guns'. Country and Western fans are virtually guaranteed to own or at least to defend the ownership of guns. By a certain logic this provides the gunman with two sound moral positions (because it is not beyond possibility he has a conscience):

First - While killing a very large number of innocent people is an horrendous crime it is nonetheless entirely justifiable - in moral terms - if it causes a restriction on guns. Because such a restriction would - it is widely held - save innumerable lives in the long run. There is no evidence for this but it is still a widely and passionately held belief.

Second - Since the people he is shooting are actively or passively defenders of guns and an obstacle to gun control they are by definition responsible in part for all the people who have been and continue to be killed by guns.

So our London analyst is arguing that this was an act of mass murder to protest the ease with which Americans can commit mass murder. I'm reminded of the entirely idiotic Liam Neeson movie from a year or two back, Non-Stop, in which he battles terrorists who've hijacked a plane to protest the ease with which terrorists can hijack a plane. At the key moment in the bad-guy monologue, my kids and I burst out laughing. But presumably Universal Pictures found it credible enough to greenlight the project - and, as I recall, most people in the movie theater seemed to be taking it seriously.

At one level, it's a ludicrous explanation - and yet it has the ruthless logic of a psychopath, of a man who, like a good screenwriter, subordinates all other considerations to the internal logic of an absurd proposition. It's also a rare explanation that explains everything: the guns in the hotel, the explosive material in the car, the guns in his house, and in his other house, and doubtless in his other other house. To reprise my reader's joke: He was smuggling suitcases.

And, as our analyst notes, in the void of any motive, the Democrats and media are now talking about the armory - should we restrict the number of guns? the types of guns? the modifications to guns?
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline tomahawk6

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 101,260
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 9,363
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2017, 08:33:55 »
Paddock was as the song goes a Nowhere Man.

"Nowhere Man"

He's a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's as blind as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
Nowhere Man can you see me at all?

Nowhere Man, don't worry
Take your time, don't hurry
Leave it all till somebody else lends you a hand

Doesn't have a point of view
Knows not where he's going to
Isn't he a bit like you and me?

Nowhere Man, please listen
You don't know what you're missing
Nowhere Man, the world is at your command

He's a real Nowhere Man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

The Beatles circa 1965

jollyjacktar

  • Guest
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2017, 11:12:00 »
NRA opposes full ban of bump stocks.  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nra-bump-stocks-1.4346367

Offline FJAG

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 166,490
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,877
  • Ex Gladio Justicia
    • WordPress Page
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #65 on: October 09, 2017, 20:54:25 »
NRA opposes full ban of bump stocks.  http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nra-bump-stocks-1.4346367

Silly me. For a second there I thought you said that the "NRA proposes full ban of bump stocks.

What was I thinking?

 :evilrifle:
Illegitimi non carborundum
Semper debeatis percutis ictu primo
Access my "Allies" book series at:
https://wolfriedel.wordpress.com

Offline Jed

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 46,180
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 1,057
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #66 on: October 09, 2017, 21:50:50 »
Silly me. For a second there I thought you said that the "NRA proposes full ban of bump stocks.

What was I thinking?

 :evilrifle:

It's probably a case of if you give an inch to the Gun Grabbers they will take a mile. Just like in Canada. People have an irrational fear of the Scary Black Gun.
As the old man used to say: " I used to be a coyote, but I'm alright nooooOOOOWWW!"

Offline Brihard

  • Army.ca Veteran
  • *****
  • 176,825
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 4,196
  • Non-Electric Pop-Up Target
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #67 on: October 09, 2017, 23:00:05 »
It's probably a case of if you give an inch to the Gun Grabbers they will take a mile. Just like in Canada. People have an irrational fear of the Scary Black Gun.

I believe the case against the bump stock has made itself.
Pacificsm is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and by the media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 127,010
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,926
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2017, 10:26:56 »
OCT. 10, 2017

Shift in Las Vegas Timeline Raises Questions About Police Response
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/us/shift-in-las-vegas-timeline-raises-questions-about-police-response.html

Because investigators are relying on recorded digital information, rather than witnesses, I find it somewhat surprising there is still so much discrepancy over the timeline.





« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 19:26:07 by mariomike »

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 127,010
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,926
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #71 on: October 18, 2017, 10:14:02 »
When you consider the difference in locations of the shooter and his victims, plus the mayhem at the site, at night. I am impressed how quickly the figured it out.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #72 on: October 18, 2017, 10:59:48 »
I am impressed how quickly the figured it out.

Did they? I am referring to the timeline only. Not any possible motive(s).

MGM Resorts, which owns Mandalay Bay, contested the police department’s announcement in a statement, saying that the company “cannot be certain about the most recent timeline” and that “what is currently being expressed may not be accurate.”

At the most recent news conference, the sheriff said repeatedly that information about the case would change as the investigation continued.



« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 12:17:51 by mariomike »

Offline Colin P

  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *****
  • 127,010
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,926
  • Civilian
    • http://www.pacific.ccg-gcc.gc.ca
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #73 on: October 18, 2017, 12:22:06 »
Timelines are wonky, but their response to a complex situation was likely better than many police forces would have been.

Offline mariomike

  • Directing Staff
  • Army.ca Fixture
  • *
  • 488,425
  • Rate Post
  • Posts: 8,871
    • The job.
Re: 50 dead over 200 wounded in Las Vegas shooting 1 Oct 2017
« Reply #74 on: October 18, 2017, 12:30:50 »
It reminded me of the Texas sniper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2Bc3AnAUGA

They never really figured out the "why" part. But, the two City of Austin patrol officers who finally blew him away were very brave. This was before SWAT.

The Las Vegas sniper was older than I am, so he likely remembered it too.

The response in LV is still under review.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=%22las+vegas%22+police+response&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=WYHnWfffDMzM8gfc3Z_oCA&gws_rd=ssl

« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 13:11:52 by mariomike »