Author Topic: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants  (Read 4505 times)

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Offline mckenziepiping

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Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« on: November 07, 2017, 14:53:00 »
I am a Reservist, however my question also applies to civilian applicants.

I received a list of required medical tests from the MIR at Denison Armoury (32 Canadian Forces Health Services Centre Toronto) and was told to get them done using provincial health coverage. This seems to be possible for the bloodwork but I cannot find a way to get the eye exams done without paying $200 - $500 out of pocket. An ophthalmologist requires a referral (which the MIR does not provide... the "list" of tests they sent me isn't associated with a particular doctor so it's not a referral)... otherwise I'd have to go pay for the tests at an optometry clinic.

Have any civilians or Class A Reservists succeeded in getting these tests done without incurring any costs?

They used to do the testing right at Denison but not anymore....
Dileas gu brath

Offline CountDC

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2017, 15:09:54 »
My understanding is you take the list to your family doctor and obtain the referrals from him/her.  That is what the Class A reserves from my prior unit had to do and it worked fine.
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2017, 15:37:51 »
Aircrew? Door Gunner?

Offline paleomedic

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2017, 17:11:03 »
I am a Reservist, however my question also applies to civilian applicants.

I received a list of required medical tests from the MIR at Denison Armoury (32 Canadian Forces Health Services Centre Toronto) and was told to get them done using provincial health coverage. This seems to be possible for the bloodwork but I cannot find a way to get the eye exams done without paying $200 - $500 out of pocket. An ophthalmologist requires a referral (which the MIR does not provide... the "list" of tests they sent me isn't associated with a particular doctor so it's not a referral)... otherwise I'd have to go pay for the tests at an optometry clinic.

Have any civilians or Class A Reservists succeeded in getting these tests done without incurring any costs?

They used to do the testing right at Denison but not anymore....

The cycloplegic eye exam does cost extra as it is more in-depth than your typical eye exam. Your private health insurance should pay for some of it (if you have private insurance) and you can claim it on your taxes (it's not much but it can help). Once you have your aircrew status (A1, A2, A4) the military will pa for the eye exam to keep you current. But until you are one of these air factors, you are on your own for the test.
It's kind of way to make you prove how bad you want it. If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to pay for it.

Offline Carf

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2017, 19:43:56 »
An optometrist can do the necessary vision tests - I just had them done recently. Cost me $85, so no need to spend $200-500 on an ophthalmologist.

Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 10:21:10 »
That's the sheet in case it looks familiar to anyone...
Dileas gu brath

Offline Blackadder1916

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 11:41:01 »
To repeat Loachman's query - why are you doing an aircrew medical?  The answer may be helpful in advising you.

I find it strange that a serving soldier (and yes, a Class A reservist is a serving soldier) is required to pay for medical services (*not medically necessary services) that the military says he needs to complete as a condition of employment in order to perform a task that the military says he is to perform.

Quote
. . . was told to get them done using provincial health coverage . . .

If CF health authorities are telling individuals this, they either are condoning fraud or don't know what they are talking about . . . or lazy.

*not medically necessary services - You will find in all the provincial health insurance plans (including OHIP) the caveat that they only cover payment for services that are "medically necessary", i.e. needed to diagnose and treat a medical condition.  Services provided to individuals for employment purposes are not insured services.  Any physician who billed a provincial health insurance plan for the services he performed solely for the purpose of completing an employment related form or if he referred an individual to another health provider (and lab tests, x-rays, etc are also referrals) without making it clear that it was not a medical necessary service would be committing fraud.  And yes, I have known a doctor who got caught doing so and he paid a steep price.

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Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2017, 11:54:01 »
Aircrew? Door Gunner?

I'm trying to do a CT for pilot. Therefore I need my vision to be assessed V1 as part of the many requirements to receive an Air Factor of 1.
Dileas gu brath

Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2017, 11:55:42 »
I went through this process in 2014 but did not succeed at Aircrew Selection. I've since acquired a PPL (Private Pilot's License), which makes me eligible to re-apply. Back in 2014, all the testing was done on-site at the MIR but now they are telling me that I'm responsible for any costs incurred. If you look at the form I posted, near the very bottom, there is a note marked with asterisks mentioning that "all fees for reports are the responsibility of the applicant".

It is kind of BS that they are relegating everything to provincial health coverage because that makes it very difficult for students who are studying away from home. I have Quebec healthcare but I'm studying in Ontario. Because I'm a full-time student, I'm not eligible for OHIP (Ontario's health plan). Therefore, I cannot just walk into a lab here to do the bloodwork/ECG/etc. that they want since Quebec healthcare is only accepted at hospitals and not clinics. I'm going to need to drive from Toronto back to Montreal to get all the testing done but EVEN in Montreal the eye exam will present a challenge... but as CountDC said:

My understanding is you take the list to your family doctor and obtain the referrals from him/her.  That is what the Class A reserves from my prior unit had to do and it worked fine.

Yes I'll have to give that a shot when I'm in Montreal... go to a walk-in and see if they'll give me a referral just because a potential employer wants it, notwithstanding any lack of symptoms...
Dileas gu brath

Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2017, 11:57:31 »
If you want it bad enough, you will find a way to pay for it.

Hmmmm, I find it hard to believe that the military would assess merit or degree of desire based on wherewithal....
Dileas gu brath

Offline Carf

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2017, 12:00:24 »
Not sure if you also have to get that other medical form filled out by a MD (the one that requests all the other tests), but the walk in clinic I went to also charged me a fee for that since it's a voluntary/work related form - the lab work is covered by provincial healthcare, but the clinic itself charged me to have a MD sign off.

Offline Loachman

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2017, 20:30:24 »
Alright, I am beginning to understand - you are a Reservist applying for a CT/OT to Pilot.

What I am not understanding is why you are expected to pay for any of these tests. I have never heard of such a thing. All of these tests are paid for by the CF for all Pilot applicants. Through whom did you initiate the CT?


Offline paleomedic

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 05:38:18 »
That's the sheet in case it looks familiar to anyone...

and if you look at the bottom of this form it clearly states all cost incurred are the responsibility of the applicant. Same as for a DND2777 Visual Acuity NonAircrew.

Offline nic32

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 12:30:52 »
Alright, I am beginning to understand - you are a Reservist applying for a CT/OT to Pilot.

What I am not understanding is why you are expected to pay for any of these tests. I have never heard of such a thing. All of these tests are paid for by the CF for all Pilot applicants. Through whom did you initiate the CT?

Back then it was true for the visual part. I applied in 2012 and 2013 as a ROTP applicant and they paid for it. Now, I'm a DEO applicant and I paid it. Do the ROTP applicant still don't pay for it ? I don't know.

I think that is fair. Before, we did all the medical tests and interview before doing Aircrew Selection. That is, I think it was ok to paid for it because if you fail the test you lost that money. Now, you do the Aircrew Selection before medical and interview so paying 100-200$ for testing purpose is absolutely normal since it is the last step before being merit listed. Firefighter and police officer also pay for their medical exams when applying (at least in my city).

Do the ROTP applicant follow the same steps or it is like when I did it ? I don't know.

Nick
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:10:31 by nic32 »

Offline paleomedic

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2017, 07:18:00 »
I feel it's important to remember that you are only paying for the initial testing. Once you are approved as an aircrew member or a diver, all the testing to keep you current is paid for, as long as you show up on time and tell medical that you need this testing for aircrew/dive.

Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2017, 14:47:43 »
Alright, I am beginning to understand - you are a Reservist applying for a CT/OT to Pilot.

What I am not understanding is why you are expected to pay for any of these tests. I have never heard of such a thing. All of these tests are paid for by the CF for all Pilot applicants. Through whom did you initiate the CT?

I didn't initiate the CT through any particular individual... I did it using a website on the DIN.
Dileas gu brath

Offline mckenziepiping

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2017, 14:52:43 »
Now, you do the Aircrew Selection before medical and interview so paying 100-200$ for testing purpose is absolutely normal since it is the last step before being merit listed.

Nick

Yeah that's the issue... they want me to do all the medical testing before Aircrew Selection, which has a 90% fail rate. So it's shitty to risk hundreds of dollars with a 10% chance of success. Anyway I think I've figured it out and it is gonna cost me $100 for the eye stuff but everything else will be covered by provincial healthcare if I can find a sketchy doctor to write me referrals even though the testing is not medically required
Dileas gu brath

Offline Roger123

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2017, 15:36:07 »
I'm trying to do a CT for pilot. Therefore I need my vision to be assessed V1 as part of the many requirements to receive an Air Factor of 1.

I believe the minimum vision standard is V2 for pilot. While doing the standard medical, I had trouble reading the last line of the test. The medical technician wrote me down as V2. I asked how the testing went afterwards with regards to pilot. I asked if V1 is the requirement and he double checked and it was V2. Same thing happened at Aircrew Selection Pt.2 Medical in Toronto. Had trouble with the last line ( missed some letters on the last line), but they informed me that I passed. Anyways, good luck with your tests and Aircrew Selection.

Offline kratz

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2017, 15:44:56 »
Yeah that's the issue... they want me to do all the medical testing before Aircrew Selection, which has a 90% fail rate. So it's shitty to risk hundreds of dollars with a 10% chance of success. Anyway I think I've figured it out and it is gonna cost me $100 for the eye stuff but everything else will be covered by provincial healthcare if I can find a sketchy doctor to write me referrals even though the testing is not medically required

Many people pay similar entry fees these days. Example: University or professional fees. You have the ability to be reimbursed, if you pass the screening process. As others have emphasised, this requirement is one part of the screening process. If you do not feel you will pass ACS, why should taxpayers pay for the cost of your eyesight?

Standards change. The competition must becoming tougher and more people are willing to pay before applying. You've been caught in those changes. It's called an "opportunity cost", and in this example, you've lost after waiting 4+ years.

Others have paid far more than a couple hundred dollars, just to be able to qualify to apply for their dream job.

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Offline paleomedic

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2017, 19:27:33 »
I believe the minimum vision standard is V2 for pilot. While doing the standard medical, I had trouble reading the last line of the test. The medical technician wrote me down as V2. I asked how the testing went afterwards with regards to pilot. I asked if V1 is the requirement and he double checked and it was V2. Same thing happened at Aircrew Selection Pt.2 Medical in Toronto. Had trouble with the last line ( missed some letters on the last line), but they informed me that I passed. Anyways, good luck with your tests and Aircrew Selection.

The last line of the eye chart is 6/4.8.
The second last line is 6/6.
V1 is 6/6 in the better eye, and 6/9 or better in the worse eye.

V2 is 6/18 (or better) in either eye uncorrected, and 6/6 corrected in your better eye, and 6/9 or better in your other eye.
V2 can also be 6/12 in your better and 6/30 in the other eye, uncorrected. Corrected your eyes must be 6/6 and better than 6/9. Diopters must also be better than +/- 7.00.

If you were deemed to be V2, I have to believe you missed more than a few letters on the last line of the chart.
But you are correct that pilot is V2.

Offline Roger123

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 06:53:11 »
If you were deemed to be V2, I have to believe you missed more than a few letters on the last line of the chart.
But you are correct that pilot is V2.

At the standard medical he wrote me down as V2, which I am assuming is less than 20/20. He then sent me to an optometrist, stating that the optometrist would provide more detailed testing. She filled out the form listed in this forum. She also wrote me down as 6/6 in both eyes. I asked if this corresponded to 20/20 vision, and she said yes, but not perfect. The thing I messed up at the optometrist, from what I recall, was mistaking a number 2 rotated 90 degrees as an S, thinking that it must be a letter since I was just reeling off letters from the charts before.

At ACS pt2., I had trouble with the last line, which corresponded with the seventh line looking down the viewing instrument. No problems with the lines before. I know it was the last line because you are given all the lines at one time, each getting smaller and finer as you go down the screen shot.

Anyway, standard medical -> Not sure if it was last line. ACS pt.2 -> Sure it was last line.

Offline Carf

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Re: Aircrew Medical costs for applicants
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 10:14:02 »
Yeah that's the issue... they want me to do all the medical testing before Aircrew Selection, which has a 90% fail rate. So it's shitty to risk hundreds of dollars with a 10% chance of success. Anyway I think I've figured it out and it is gonna cost me $100 for the eye stuff but everything else will be covered by provincial healthcare if I can find a sketchy doctor to write me referrals even though the testing is not medically required

That's interesting, I did ACS before any medical stuff.