Author Topic: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]  (Read 42647 times)

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Offline MCG

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New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« on: November 24, 2017, 23:17:41 »
Was reading about some of the IRP changes that are about to launch into effect, like the use of preloaded purchase cards and the transition from local offices to centralized call centres.  I also saw that there will be no more option to use the posting allowance to buy down mortgage rates.  I am curious what brings about that change.  As interest rates are going up, it does not seem like soldiers are being helped by seeing this go away.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2017, 23:28:47 »
Not certain about the mortgage interest buy-down; the CFIRP manual is still showing it:

8.3.15 Mortgage interest buydown
Personalized benefit
Interest expenses to buy down a mortgage and associated legal fees shall be reimbursed. Buy-down amount shall not be below the prescribed rate as determined by Canada Revenue Agency (CRA).

(http://www.forces.gc.ca/assets/FORCES_Internet/docs/en/about-policies-standards-benefits-relocation/relocation-directive-2009-2015.pdf)
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2017, 23:56:12 »
Just to be clear, dapaterson, that's the "expired by two years and we couldn't be bothered to write a new one" policy? ;D

Just taking the peepee out of ya, my friend! ;)

The system will take a while to catch up and frig the member, but it will happen... BTDT

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Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2017, 07:35:07 »
The thing I don’t get about this debit card is that they refuse to pay insurance on a rental car because who knows what ‘basic insurance’ is. How am I supposed to rent a car without insuring it? at least my MasterCard insured rental vehicles.  Debit card: good idea domestically but in USA they barely know what a debit card is, they’re essentially a Visa card here, I can’t imagine that is going to work.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 07:39:42 by kev994 »

Offline kratz

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2017, 09:41:15 »
Kev994,

As you mentioned, some credit cards off car rental insurance.

People can also add a car rental insurance clause to their personal insurance policy.
Between postings / provinces the add-on has run about $20 extra per year.
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Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2017, 11:47:07 »
Not if you have communist prairie insurance. For MPI the vehicle is insured, there is no rental car insurance available.

Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2017, 14:49:44 »
Where can we see the updates to the admistration of the relocation program?  I knew they were going the centralized administration way but I wasn't aware of changes to the policy itself.

For the interest buy-down:  if you do the math, it's only good for you if you do a full 5-year posting.  Anything less and you lose.  Better invest your personalied enveloppe in RRSP/TFSA.

Offline MCG

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2017, 16:27:18 »
I have only seen an email that was cut and pasted from a chain that came either from CMP or Army HQ.

The mechanism to roll personnel envelope into RRSP is apparently also gone.


Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2017, 18:53:53 »
http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/know-your-benefits-articles/update-modernizing-relocation.page

The above link says the benefits aren't affected. Para 8.3.15 of the CFIRP talks about the interest buy-down.  Not sure which is right or wrong.

Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 18:58:08 »
The mechanism to roll personnel envelope into RRSP is apparently also gone.

This is a pretty basic income tax function, there’s nothing special about it. I have a hard time believing this could just disappear.

Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2017, 19:37:49 »
As far as I know, at this point there have been no changes to the benefits under CFIRP, only to how some things are administered.

That said, there is always the possibility that a new CFIRP could be approved in time for APS 18.
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Offline MCG

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2017, 21:00:38 »
This is a pretty basic income tax function, there’s nothing special about it. I have a hard time believing this could just disappear.
The RRSP would not disappear, but the mechanism to directly deposits the money without deducting tax will be gone. 

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2017, 22:01:57 »
The RRSP would not disappear, but the mechanism to directly deposits the money without deducting tax will be gone.

You'll just get the money back in May vs keeping it in your pocket.  No net chance to your bottom line.

Offline MCG

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2017, 23:28:00 »
You'll just get the money back in May vs keeping it in your pocket.  No net chance to your bottom line.
Not so much.  If you put the whole unused portion of your personal envelope into an RRSP, that is better at tax time than if you put in the whole unused portion of your personal envelope less taxes deducted at source.  Now I acknowledge you could reach into other saving to make up the difference of what would go into the RRSP, but a lot (I would guess most) of people won’t (for various reasons). 

And even for those who use other funds to provide the RRSP with the value of deducted taxes, this change of process would see the government giving itself an interest free loan from on the pockets of a lot of service families for a period of (typically) most of a year (APS to tax filing season). That is not cool.

Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2017, 14:29:28 »
I received this today:

Quote
In 1 week, the new Brookfield Relocation contract and system will come into effect (1 Dec). To summarize, this is what we have been made aware of to date concerning the new system

1.   Members registering with BGRS until 27 Nov will be administered under the old system and their files will remain open for 1 year;
2.   From 0800 – 2000 hrs you will have access to a BGRS representative;
3.   All Benefits remain the same;
4.   Member’s Skpe conference/teleconference with their BGRS representative will be recorded and they will have access to those online 24/7;
5.   CAF will issue future T4’s for postings effective 1 Dec and beyond;
6.   CAF members will log on to the system and complete their profile much like we currently do – the system will prompt the member who is relocating through the various steps of their relocation dependant on their personal circumstances (buying, renting);
7.   BGRS will book flights for CAF members through HRG;
8.   CAF members will pay all 3rd party providers (real estate, lawyers, Home inspectors, etc.) via a loaded cash card/visa;
9.   An advance will be requested on the program and within 24hrs it will be loaded to their cash card/visa;
10.   This cash card will not affect CAF members credit rating;
11.   There will be a list of all 3rd party providers that members will be able to choose from much like we currently have;
12.   CAF members will scan their receipts to BGRS however the original receipts will have to be kept for 7 years in the event of an audit;
13.   It’s vital that CAF members read Know your Benefits in ref D and E below in addition to the Canadian Forces Integrated Relocation Program (CFIRP) and CBI Chapter 208 – Relocation Benefits; and
14.   Posting allowance will be taxable and member’s will not be able to roll into RRSPs or buy down their mortgage rate;
15.   Cash card/Visa will be provided by Berkley and member’s will have access to a 24/7 phone number for any potential problems.
16.   When the member receives their posting message, they must register on the secure website and request the RELO card; it will be sent within 5 days

I'm sure a lot of people will be looking at the money/tax implications, but one of the concerns that was brought up that I have a question about is COS and RFD date.

The MHRRP (A-Pm-245) is the only source document that I can find that clearly states that a RFD greater (or less) than 30 days from COS must be staffed through the career manager.

My question is, why? And who would care if you ignored this. Obviously, if you're filling a key position, like ship's XO, Navigator, Chief Eng, etc, then a delay of more than 30 days could necessitate someone else being posted to the position so that the unit (ship) can actually get on with it's business. But if the ship is sitting in the ditch and doesn't really need a NavO, and because of personal circumstances (or delays by Brookfield), the new NavO is requesting an RFD that's  days from COS, then why not? If the gaining CO doesn't really need him, and the losing CO has no problem letting them kick-around the office for an extra 60 days, does it really need to go to the CM? We trust our COs to make much more critical decisions than "should I allow a change in this member's place of duty to his previous place of duty for 60 days?"

If you read the "challenges" and "consideration" (which I did not provide), it looks like DGCB and D Mil C are going to be encouraging exactly this. The new system with the RELO cards might make it difficult for members to keep there RFDs within the 30 days of COS (at least at first).
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2017, 15:04:17 »
The written policy is COs can auth a max of 30 days.


In practice, a reasonable pair of COs (gaining and losing) will be able to negotiate in the best interests of the member, the gaining and the losing unit and then inform the Career manager of the change.

An unreasonable career manager (refusing the agreement of the two COs) will likely then have his section head in D Mil C engaged by two pissed off COs.  And the problem (in the future) will be self correcting.

In an era of email communications I do not see this as an area of particular concern.


Re: point 14 on the list: Posting Allowance has always been taxable.  Rolling into RRSPs will still be possible, but will require the member to do so, not BGRS on their behalf.  Similarly, there may be the ability to buy down interest rates, but that will have to be done and paid by the member out of the PA they receive.

The benefit to removing Posting Allowance from BGRS is that pay increases should then be actionned automatically, and members should then receive a single CAF T4 (unless they are paid by both CCPS and RPSR in a single fiscal year...)
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Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2017, 16:27:19 »
I'm curious about the relo card. How many third party providers are going to have issues being paid by a cash card? During my last move, most of the 3rd party providers paid just billed Brookfield directly, or took hard cash.
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Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2017, 19:13:00 »
I'm curious about the relo card. How many third party providers are going to have issues being paid by a cash card? During my last move, most of the 3rd party providers paid just billed Brookfield directly, or took hard cash.

I'm pretty sure on my last cost move the only thing we paid cash for were hotels and meals. All other providers billed Brookfield directly much like you.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2017, 19:14:17 »
Looks like this might be related:

CANFORGEN 200/17 CMP 103/17 061533Z NOV 17

RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA)

UNCLASSIFIED


REF: CANFORGEN 101/17 CMP 051/17 021245Z JUN 17


1. THE REF ANNOUNCED A PAY RAISE FOR NCMS, GSO AND PILOTS IN THE RANK OF LCOL AND BELOW, AND FOR MEDICAL AND DENTAL OFFICERS. THIS WILL RESULT IN A RETROACTIVE ADJUSTMENT OF POSTING ALLOWANCE (RAPA) FOR MEMBERS WITH A CHANGE OF STRENGTH (COS) DATE AFTER 1 APR 14


2. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO CLARIFY THE RAPA PROCESS FOR ALL AFFECTED CAF MEMBERS


3. CAF PERS WHO WERE RELOCATED BY BGRS WITH COS DATE AFTER 1 APR 14 MAY BE ENTITLED TO RAPA. RAPA FOR OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF COL/CAPT(N) AND ABOVE, AND LEGAL OFFICERS IN THE RANK OF LCOL AND ABOVE WILL BE ACTIONED AT A LATER DATE


4. ELIGIBLE MEMBERS WILL BE CONTACTED BY BGRS VIA EMAIL


5. RAPA WILL BE PROCESSED CENTRALLY BY BGRS. THE BGRS ADVISOR THAT WAS ASSIGNED TO YOUR RELOCATION FILE WILL NOT PROCESS THE RAPA. CAF MEMBERS ARE REQUESTED TO WAIT TO BE CONTACTED BY THE BGRS CENTRAL TEAM AND NOT DIRECT ANY COMMENTS OR CONCERNS TO THEIR LOCAL BGRS ADVISOR, IRP COORDINATOR, PAY OFFICE OR ORDERLY ROOM


6. WHILE THE GOAL IS TO INITIATE RAPA PAYMENTS IN 2017, THE VOLUME (IN EXCESS OF THIRTY THOUSAND CAF MEMBERS), MAY RESULT IN PAYMENTS IN 2018


7. DEDUCTIONS AT SOURCE WILL BE WITHHELD ON ALL RAPA PAYMENTS


8. AS THE RAPA IS A TAXABLE BENEFIT, A T4 AND A RELEVE 1, WHERE APPLICABLE, WILL BE ISSUED VIA THE BGRS SECURE WEBSITE
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2017, 19:15:39 »
From a tax perspective, the Personal Envelope (which includes the posting allowance, hence why I'm bringing it up) wasn't handled very well by Brookfield, IMO. And now, it's kind of worse, and Point #14 is written very poorly.

For any move that fits CRA's definition, there is a whole bunch of expenses that are deductible at tax time. The personalized envelope was meant to pay for those, and then anything left over is an economic benefit and therefore taxable. So, if your personalized envelope was 5000, and you had to pay a 2500 penalty to break/port your mortgage, then only 2500 was taxable because that 2500 was an economic benefit. If it was 5000, then nothing was taxable since there was no economic benefit. And if it was 10,000, then you could deduct the additional 5,000 come tax season since it fits the bill of an eligible moving expense.

In hindsight from my last move, had I known what they were doing, I would have claimed all the eligible expenses under my personalized envelope, and then had the remaining paid out. It makes tax season much easier to deal with since I wouldn't need to deduct things like "hotel upgrades" (the max rate for Kenora, ON, was like 105 dollars... the only thing I could find was 200+, for example... that's now ~100 deductible on my taxes).

What's really happening here is you are being paid out the full personalized envelope and the taxes are being deducted at source. So now you pay the full mortgage penalty up front, and can deduct it all in tax season. The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return..... and how many are not going to realize just what they can claim on their taxes?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 19:28:14 by ballz »
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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 20:40:11 »
Can you cash out the cash card and use your own credit card instead?  I really like acruing points...

Offline MCG

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2017, 21:00:30 »
Looks like this might be related:
No.  That is something different.  It is retroactive changes to posting allowances based on the recent retroactive pay increase.

The stuff in this thread is about changes in how IRP will be administered going into the future.

Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 21:26:35 »
Can you cash out the cash card and use your own credit card instead?  I really like acruing points...

I hear there's a bodega around the corner that'll exchange 'em for cash...
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 08:44:49 by Lumber »
"Aboard his ship, there is nothing outside a captain's control." - Captain Sir Edward Pellew

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2017, 21:43:11 »
I hear there a bodega around the corner that'll exchange 'em for cash...

I have to say, I don't understand the reasoning for the card, other than the government saving a few bucks on ATM fees and bank fees when exchanging currencies...

Why not just advance the money to the members (like it is already done)?

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2017, 21:49:07 »
Simpler and less expensive, presumably.
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