Author Topic: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]  (Read 23016 times)

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Offline Quirky

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2018, 13:16:50 »
I can help here.

Second, be careful about taking POMV. Verify that the distance between your two bases is no more than 650km. For your HHT/DIT, you're only entitled to 1 day of travel, which means a max of 650km. Should it be greater than 650km, you'll need to ensure that the extra travel day is either on a weekend, or on a day of annual/stat leave. I'd also be careful in ensuring that Brookfield is aware of your intent to drive POMV so theyh don't accidentally book you a flight when you put your HHT application in.

Can you not just use a rental vehicle for your HHT if you are within a days (~600km) driving distance?

Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2018, 13:29:22 »
Can you not just use a rental vehicle for your HHT if you are within a days (~600km) driving distance?

It's all about overall cost. If the two bases are REALLY close, then:

Quote
Where the old and new places of duty are in close proximity, CF members may travel back and forth each day, while on HHT or DIT. They are on duty status during this time, therefore CO’s approval, even for weekend travel, is required.
Reimbursement shall not exceed the cost and time provided for one standard HHT or DIT. Extra transportation costs are offset by the elimination of any accommodation costs at the new location.

But if they aren't THAT close, but close enough to drive, then:

Quote
Entitlements are to be reimbursed as per section 3.3 based on the following:
Core benefit
• transportation to and from the commercial carrier;
• rental vehicle;
Private motor vehicle (PMV) – kilometric allowance not to exceed the total cost of commercial transportation;
• motorcycle – 60% of the kilometric rate not to exceed the total cost of commercial transportation; and
• parking and toll charges.

The bit in yellow.

Quote
4.5.03 Local transportation

If you are using PMV you will be reimbursd the kilometric allowance (not to exceed rental vehicle costs including the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver, if required).

Finally:

Quote
4.5.04 Rental vehicle
There is no entitlement to local rental vehicle when PMV is the primary mode of transportation and additional expenses are claimed.
(*I believe this clause only comes into play if "additional expenses are claimed", which comes from para 4.5.0.1.)

Based on all this, I would say you can do either of two things:

1. Rent a vehicle, drive it to the HHT, and use it on the HHT; or
2. Drive your POMV to the HHT location, and then rent a vehicle for use during the HHT.

In either case, if the total cost of doing so is less than or equal to the "preferred/most-economical" method (i.e. fly and rent a car), then it should be approved.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2018, 13:34:39 by Lumber »
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Offline SF2

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #127 on: March 07, 2018, 20:05:26 »
Thanks for that.  I'm going from Pet to Kingston.  Sorry for the questions, but this is my first local posting where I didn't fly to my hht. 

Understood the pmv mileage is given up to max of rental cost for travel in between.   But what about in  location during the house hunting?   If I'm in a rental and get gas, I keep the receipt.  But the directive talks about mileage again for pmv (4.5.03).  So no gas receipts if I use the pmv?

Offline Lkjhgfdsa

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #128 on: March 07, 2018, 20:15:30 »
I thought there was no change to to policy. Just to how the service is delivered. Why are there so many questions about paying out the personal envelope and worries that members won’t get posting allowances or paid out meals and incidentals. This card really is not a good idea. People have a great complaint. The money is on the card and not everyone takes the card. We should be able to opt out of the reloc card. Submit expenses via claims  and get reimbursed - advance if taken.


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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #129 on: March 07, 2018, 20:42:47 »
Thanks for that.  I'm going from Pet to Kingston.  Sorry for the questions, but this is my first local posting where I didn't fly to my hht. 

Understood the pmv mileage is given up to max of rental cost for travel in between.   But what about in  location during the house hunting?   If I'm in a rental and get gas, I keep the receipt.  But the directive talks about mileage again for pmv (4.5.03).  So no gas receipts if I use the pmv?

I asked BGRS this question last night.  The answer I received was that since my move isn't very far I can either fly since there is an airport here and there or I can use my PMV or get a rental car here to drive to the HHT location.  If I use PMV, I will only get paid for the actual mileage or from here to HHT location not gas while I driving around.  If I get a rental I can submit all of my gas receipts.  I thought about flying but it would actually take longer to fly than to drive.  I'm surprised we have the option to fly for such a short distance although I knew someone who flew from Montreal to Ottawa for an HHT and got a rental while here.

 

Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #130 on: March 07, 2018, 21:46:26 »
I asked BGRS this question last night.  The answer I received was that since my move isn't very far I can either fly since there is an airport here and there or I can use my PMV or get a rental car here to drive to the HHT location.  If I use PMV, I will only get paid for the actual mileage or from here to HHT location not gas while I driving around.  If I get a rental I can submit all of my gas receipts.  I thought about flying but it would actually take longer to fly than to drive.  I'm surprised we have the option to fly for such a short distance although I knew someone who flew from Montreal to Ottawa for an HHT and got a rental while here.

I'm kind of surprised by this. When I was posted from Pet to Kingston in 2015 I used my PMV for the HHT and was paid for the calculated mileage to get to Kingston, and then I submitted the mileage I used (not gas receipts) for the time in the city actually doing the house hunt. This was the direct instructions from the Brookfield agent in Pet.

I thought the policy was unchanged?
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Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #131 on: March 07, 2018, 22:32:20 »
If you are using your POMV for local travel during your HHT, you should be able to claim that mileage.
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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #132 on: March 08, 2018, 08:56:38 »
If you are using your POMV for local travel during your HHT, you should be able to claim that mileage.
I would have thought so but when someone at work told me I would only be able to claim to and from destination and not the gas I use once there, I called.  BGRS told me the same thing.

Offline StillGoingStrong

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #133 on: March 08, 2018, 09:46:00 »
Below is from the Relocation Directive. It says you can use your PMV for Local Transportation BUT it cannot exceed the cost that would have been for approved commercial rental.


4.5.03 Local transportation
Entitlements are to be reimbursed as per section 3.3. (see below)

Core benefit
Local transportation is based on a maximum vehicle rental of:
seven days on a standard HHT; or
five days on a standard DIT.

If you are using PMV you will be reimbursed the kilometric allowance (not to exceed rental vehicle costs including the Collision Damage Waiver/Loss Damage Waiver, if required).
If you are using commercial transportation you will be reimbursed actual and reasonable transportation expenses.

Custom benefit
Nil.

Personalized benefit
Actual transportation expenses (supported by gas receipts) if using a PMV or commercial transportation as described in Core above for the period on extended HHT.

3.3.01 Allowance and kilometric rate for travel
The kilometric allowance shall be based on the approved commercial software Promiles and will be calculated using the applicable km rate multiplied by the distance traveled using the travel rates as published by Treasury Board as follows:

PMV – kilometric rate for passenger vehicles
Motorcycle – 60% of kilometric rate
Trailer – 50% of the kilometric rate

3.3.02 Rental vehicle
The size of the rental vehicle is based on family size.

Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #134 on: March 08, 2018, 12:05:48 »
I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.

First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.

Second, anything you don't use in the personalized envelope gets paid out in cash at the end.

So, why have items in the IRP that only receive funding from personalized envelope?

Pet care, for example, is only reimbursable form the personalized envelope, for example... that does;t make sense. If it's $300 for a week of pet care while I'm on my HHT, I can either pay it out of my own pocket, keep that $300 dollars in the envelope, and receive that $300 when I cash out the envelope; or, I can get BGRS to pay for the pet care, not incur the $300 expense myself, but receive $300 less when I cash out the envelope.

The net amount is exactly the same, so why mention that they can be paid by the envelope at all?
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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #135 on: March 08, 2018, 12:23:10 »
I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.

First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.

Second, anything you don't use in the personalized envelope gets paid out in cash at the end.

So, why have items in the IRP that only receive funding from personalized envelope?

Pet care, for example, is only reimbursable form the personalized envelope, for example... that does;t make sense. If it's $300 for a week of pet care while I'm on my HHT, I can either pay it out of my own pocket, keep that $300 dollars in the envelope, and receive that $300 when I cash out the envelope; or, I can get BGRS to pay for the pet care, not incur the $300 expense myself, but receive $300 less when I cash out the envelope.

The net amount is exactly the same, so why mention that they can be paid by the envelope at all?

I can be a bit thick sometimes so I want to make sure I completely understand this.  The $650 that is in my personalized envelope is my movement grant that would be coming to me regardless.  When I put the cat in the kennel for a week, it's going to come out of that envelope?  That means I'm paying for it basically myself? Why say pet care is claimable and waste my time sending them receipts etc?

Offline Strike

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #136 on: March 08, 2018, 12:31:45 »
I never really understood the point of the personalized envelope.

First, the total amount of the personalized envelope can be calculated earlier on, and it doesn't change.

Second, anything you don't use in the personalized envelope gets paid out in cash at the end.

So, why have items in the IRP that only receive funding from personalized envelope?

Pet care, for example, is only reimbursable form the personalized envelope, for example... that does;t make sense. If it's $300 for a week of pet care while I'm on my HHT, I can either pay it out of my own pocket, keep that $300 dollars in the envelope, and receive that $300 when I cash out the envelope; or, I can get BGRS to pay for the pet care, not incur the $300 expense myself, but receive $300 less when I cash out the envelope.

The net amount is exactly the same, so why mention that they can be paid by the envelope at all?

I may be wrong, but it might be best to use the personalized envelope instead of waiting for the cash at the end because anything claimed on the move is not taxed.  But any cash you receive at the end is taxed.  So the result is, if you just wait for the cash at the end, you're going to get less.

This is what I remember from WAAAAAAYYYYY back when IRP first came about and anything we received from them wasn't taxed.  I was told to keep every one of my receipts so that I could claim it on my income tax and get a large amount back.  All this does with entering the receipts and having the money refunded is make less work for you come tax time, because you don't have to worry about individually including each tax receipt.  It's already been done and sorted through the program.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #137 on: March 08, 2018, 13:23:09 »
Strike has the right idea with the personalized amounts.

The IRP Directive outlines the personalized envelope:
- $650 movement grant: no receipts required, and
- Full month's gross pay
- Real Estate incentive
- LTS incentive and
- HHT savings

Quoted directly from the IRP directive:
Quote
Personalized benefit to be used when all custom funds have been expended

Personally, with nearly 50% of the posting allowance taxed before deposited into my account, I'd rather spend the money on approved expenses for the personalized envelope, instead of giving the money to CRA.
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Offline CountDC

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #138 on: March 08, 2018, 13:44:15 »
Some things from my moves:

rental vehicle HHT - was only claimable at location of move so you have transport to travel around and see the places you are considering to buy/rent.  Gas was claimable also.

PMV HHT - paid mileage rate only.

Rental Veh Move - not claimable.

PMV Move - paid mileage.  Travel time is based on 500kms a day.  So 4500 kms gives you 9 days to get there.

Hotels - rates based on directory.  Rooms based on family make up so best to look it up or ask.  For example a couple with 2 children may be entitled to 2 or 3 rooms depending on children age and sex.

Personal Envelope - covers certain claimable expenses only if you do not take the cash from it up front.  Best to wait until the end and take the left over amount.  If you take it all up front it is all taxed as income where as anything paid on a claim is not taxed.

My last move was all done via online and emails.  The system worked great once I explored around the site.

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Offline stellarpanther

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #139 on: March 12, 2018, 20:16:27 »
So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).

- not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.
- someone told me I can only submit HHT application with in 21 days of it's start time.
- is there anything I need to do until then or do I just wait?
- after completing HHT, do I inform BGRS of new address and then sumit the movement form that also goes to F&E to arrange the move?
- how do I know when my pack, load, move date will be.  COS date is 16 Jul and I don't expect any changes so am I correct that my pack, load, move would be 11,12 and 13 Jul?





Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #140 on: March 12, 2018, 20:53:43 »
So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).

- not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.
- someone told me I can only submit HHT application with in 21 days of it's start time.
- is there anything I need to do until then or do I just wait?
- after completing HHT, do I inform BGRS of new address and then sumit the movement form that also goes to F&E to arrange the move?
- how do I know when my pack, load, move date will be.  COS date is 16 Jul and I don't expect any changes so am I correct that my pack, load, move would be 11,12 and 13 Jul?

Don't forget - gaining and losing COs can agree to a shift of COS date, so pack, load, move may shift.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #141 on: March 13, 2018, 16:04:45 »
stellarpanther,

Please be careful with the terms you choose to use. This is what causes some of the confusion and incorrect information being passed around.

Quote from: stellarpanther
So far I've registered and completed what stuff asked in the dashboard with the exception of confirming that I received the reloc card (haven't received it yet).

- Your card should arrive 5 business days after registering on the BGRS portal. (example Reregistered March 12, card in your mailbox  March 19).
  - PRO TIP 1: keep a written record of all actions and estimate forward when results are expected. Follow-up with BGRS and COC if there are any delays.

Quote
- not going till May but CO has signed HHT application.

- Once signed and approved by CO;  scan and enter your HHT application immediately.

Quote
- someone told me I can only submit HHT application  advance(s)   within 21 days of it's start time.

- Fixed the correct term to use, for the advice you were offered. The BGRS portal will not allow any advance request to be attempted until 21 days prior to the approved travel. The travel must be entered into the system to generate the travel dates.

Quote
- is there anything I need to do until then or do I just wait?

- This answer depends. No matter if you are renting or selling/buying there are more steps at this point you need to research, gather firm prices quotes (all in totals, with taxes) for car rental, gas estimate, hotel ect...down to the penny.
- Confirm the TPSPs you will be using on your HHT and their costs.
- You can draft  advances anytime.
    - PRO TIP 2: Use the comment section of the advance to justify the amount you are requesting. If you don't do this, BGRS will arbitrarily reduce the advance amount before approval, without warning or appeal. Your only recourse is to submit an additional claim, justifying the additional anticipated expenses.
    - example: Asks for $6000 for HHT without justification, and BGRS reduces the advance to $2500 without justification. Sure, a 2nd request can be made, approval within 2 business days, normally. Then another 5 business days for the new funds to be loaded into the card.
    - example 2: Justification in the comments section - Car rental $238.57 for the week, Clarion Hotel $1454.75 for 5 nights, Parking at airport $298.08, Parking at hotel $230.10 for week, Bridge tolls $12, Meals for HHT $2500 , Gas $160, TPSP Reatal Search Agent $805 (taxes incl), $650 Movement Grant= $6348.50 advance requested. 
      - PRO TIP 3:  Movement Grant is only paid as a claim, never as an advance. Nothing in the portal, or IRP guide mentions this distinction. BGRS will reduce the second example advance request to $5698.50 due to this. Causing delays and confusion for the member.
- If selling your current home, choose your TPSP and get it listed as soon as you're registered on BGRS. This will be important in some real estate markets.
  - PRO TIP 4: Various local Agents continue to encourage CAF members to agree to pay more than the BGRS contract percentage reimbursed by the contract. If you choose to pay that higher percentage, it's out of your own pocket. Sadly, in some markets that appears to be the way it is.
- Advances are generally approved within two business days of submitting them. Expect to see the funds on the Reloc card five business days after that.
  - PRO TIP 5: TPSP vendors and hotels are the two biggest groups who are not accepting the Reloc card. Pick the date you need the cash to pay a bill and count backwards by the $400 limit per withdrawal. Using the above agent example $805, will force 3 ATM withdrawals and the fees for those withdrawals.  BGRS will only reimburse ATM fees once per day, and NOT their own fee....
- The BGRS ATM fee exclusion is going to be a Grievance nightmare. So it will take 3 days to gather the cash required to pay the agent on time. Same idea for hotel, ect...
- Remember: 15 cash withdrawals maximum for the lifetime of the Reloc card. Unlimited debit / credit transactions. In the above example: for hotel and TPSP a member would require 6 / 15 transactions for the cash over 6 days for the HHT. BGRS charges $3 each, plus varying ATM fees, for example $2 = $30 worth of fees, but members will only be reimbursed $12 of those dollars, if they withdraw once per day.

Quote
- after completing HHT, do I inform BGRS of new address and then sumit the movement form that also goes to F&E to arrange the move?

- After the HHT, all receipts need to be scanned, photo images ect...and uploaded to the BGRS portal. Your lease agreement (Renting) or purchase documents must also be uploaded. This process will inform BGRS of your new address.
- After uploading the receipts, they must all be linked to claim(s) you raise through the BGRS portal. Sadly, there is no deadline for BGRS to finalize these claims. Having earlier requested advances close to 100% of the value of the claim(s) will assist in this not being a problem for members.
- Form CF483: Application of Move of F&E is supposed to be on the BGRS portal and their staff are required by the contract to assist members in filling it out. This is the form required by Base Transport to book your move dates.
  - PRO TIP 6:We were forced to send a message through the BGRS portal to our agent. He responded within two business days with a copy of the form to be fill out. It's useless to ask for it from Transport, as they redirect us to the portal. Within 1 day of submitting the form, our move pre-inspection was booked.
- Use the days before your move to draft your TNL and ILMM advance requests. Follow the above advice from PRO TIP 2. The 21 day limit will apply again. If you are within those 21 days, yes...you can submit the advance request immediately.

Quote
- how do I know when my pack, load, move date will be.  COS date is 16 Jul and I don't expect any changes so am I correct that my pack, load, move would be 11,12 and 13 Jul?

- As dapaterson mentions dates might be shifted slightly when both COs agree otherwise the information on your posting message, COS and the CF 483 form (box # 6) will determine the answers for your pack, load, move dates.
- Based on what you've provided as an example. Normally,  DSR (date service required) also known as load date would be July 12. Making your pack day July 11, and if you need your pre-pack day July 10. This leaves July 13 as your clean and clear the property day.
- Normally, packing, loading, moving is not done on weekends or stat holidays, unless all parties agree to it.

I hope this is of some help for the coming APS.
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Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #142 on: March 13, 2018, 17:44:00 »
So if tpsp are not taking the preloaded visa how does one go about paying something like realtor fees when your house sells. They can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars?

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #143 on: March 13, 2018, 18:50:04 »
So if tpsp are not taking the preloaded visa how does one go about paying something like realtor fees when your house sells. They can be in the 10s of thousands of dollars?

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Wouldn't the lawyers handle that through the bank?  Especially since they are usually the ones to hold on to the deposit as well?
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Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2018, 18:57:47 »
Wouldn't the lawyers handle that through the bank?  Especially since they are usually the ones to hold on to the deposit as well?

In all honesty I don't know. When I did my IRP move 3 years ago everyone just billed Brookfield directly so I was unaware of who handled what funds. I know my realtors needed my number from Brookfield so I just assumed they billed directly.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2018, 18:59:30 »
I'm happy my posting isn't until the end of September this year....everyone else can sort out the BGRS mess and I get all the ins and outs before having to move haha.
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Offline RubberTree

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #146 on: March 13, 2018, 23:07:57 »
Excuse the sidebar...
I'm trying to create an accurate cost estimate for my HHT. I have a daughter who is under 2 years old. I can't find anything that says she gets less than the full meal rate...yet it seems ridiculous for her to get the full meal rate. Am I missing something?
Thanks,
RT

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #147 on: March 13, 2018, 23:20:51 »
This card needs to be optional for the members best interest. Requesting an advance and not being able to access it is ridiculous. Option to DFT to personal account should still be an option. “The policy didn’t change just the delivery “ well why are we given a card we can’t use or it locks after we use it 15 times for currency ( plus the card fees are not covered more then once a day)

Offline Ditch

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #148 on: March 14, 2018, 00:29:40 »
I have a daughter who is under 2 years old. I can't find anything that says she gets less than the full meal rate..
She gets the full rate - it used to be 50% for children under 12, but that was stopped circa 2015.
Per Ardua Ad Astra

Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #149 on: March 14, 2018, 08:15:42 »
I think I've said it before but I'm going to say it again.

I fully understand why they went to an online/mobile app service model, but I DO NOT understand why they got rid of the ability for TPSPs to bill Brookfield directly. That system was already a behind the scenes system, why change it?
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