Author Topic: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]  (Read 32255 times)

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Offline SupersonicMax

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2017, 21:57:15 »
Simpler and less expensive, presumably.

We still need to do the claim process, we are stuck with one more card, I don't see how it is simpler for the member.  Advance and claims into my bank account directly are far simpler for most...

Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2017, 03:30:18 »
As someone currently on an OUTCAN, I don't see the cash card working for us, I don't believe they can issue something like that in Canada that will be compatible here. We will need to use our own credit card/cash when we leave here in 2020. We can use the cash card on the HHT back to Canada, but for expenses here it won't work. It will be worse for people moving here - they'll have an HHT with no cash card (hotel, meals, rental, rental search agent), then several weeks in a hotel here waiting for their furniture (we were 4 weeks in a hotel), rental car waiting for the POMV to arrive (6 weeks for us), before the HHT claim is settled (our HHT claim was settled after we arrived here, same for the other families that arrived this APS). That's a ton of money to expect the member to cover on their own with no advance. OUTCAN moves take forever to settle - we received our HG&E mid August, our claim wasn't settled until mid November. Without a big advance, we'd have been paying 2 months interest on a big balance on our credit card.

So it sounds like anything that comes out of personalized, we'd have to fund those out of our own pockets (ie not on the cash card), then the payout of the personalized funds will come on our pay later? Or will it be possible to advance on the posting allowance/personalized envelope? We used our personalized funds for two big items - extended HHT and pet shipment, both a much bigger factor in an OUTCAN move.

Put those two things together, posting season will be tight on the credit card/bank account for families going or coming from OUTCAN.
"Leave the Artillerymen alone, they are an obstinate lot. . ."
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Online JesseWZ

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2017, 07:16:59 »
Simpler and less expensive, presumably.

When has anything to do with pay and benefits been changed so the net effect ended up being "simpler and less expensive..."

*cough* Phoenix *cough*
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 08:16:32 »


What's really happening here is you are being paid out the full personalized envelope and the taxes are being deducted at source. So now you pay the full mortgage penalty up front, and can deduct it all in tax season. The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return..... and how many are not going to realize just what they can claim on their taxes?

Maybe it's early so I am not following...but the last time I was posted I had my Posting Allowance deposited directly into our spousal RRSP, so no tax deducted at source.  Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.

 ???
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Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2017, 08:31:31 »
When has anything to do with pay and benefits been changed so the net effect ended up being "simpler and less expensive..."

*cough* Phoenix *cough*
Simpler and less expensive for BGRS. I don’t think anyone is concerned with the member.

Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2017, 08:37:06 »
Maybe it's early so I am not following...but the last time I was posted I had my Posting Allowance deposited directly into our spousal RRSP, so no tax deducted at source.  Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.

 ???

I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]

PITA...stuff like this makes it seem like they think we have a pot of money just sitting to be used to bridge finance these things.

As it is, we tried to roll ours into our Questrade self directed RRSP. BGRS had a conniption. They didn't understand. They wanted paperwork from Questrade that Questrade didn't know how to provide, BGRS was only used to dealing with banks and finance companies. We almost had to do what I outlined above, but eventually BGRS managed to get it sorted and move the money to Questrade.
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Offline Eye In The Sky

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2017, 08:47:58 »
I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]


 :orly:

I guess, to me at least, the real questions are (1) who authorized them to move away from doing this and (2) WHY.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 08:56:15 by Eye In The Sky »
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Offline Lkjhgfdsa

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2017, 10:20:06 »
As someone currently on an OUTCAN, I don't see the cash card working for us, I don't believe they can issue something like that in Canada that will be compatible here. We will need to use our own credit card/cash when we leave here in 2020. We can use the cash card on the HHT back to Canada, but for expenses here it won't work. It will be worse for people moving here - they'll have an HHT with no cash card (hotel, meals, rental, rental search agent), then several weeks in a hotel here waiting for their furniture (we were 4 weeks in a hotel), rental car waiting for the POMV to arrive (6 weeks for us), before the HHT claim is settled (our HHT claim was settled after we arrived here, same for the other families that arrived this APS). That's a ton of money to expect the member to cover on their own with no advance. OUTCAN moves take forever to settle - we received our HG&E mid August, our claim wasn't settled until mid November. Without a big advance, we'd have been paying 2 months interest on a big balance on our credit card.

So it sounds like anything that comes out of personalized, we'd have to fund those out of our own pockets (ie not on the cash card), then the payout of the personalized funds will come on our pay later? Or will it be possible to advance on the posting allowance/personalized envelope? We used our personalized funds for two big items - extended HHT and pet shipment, both a much bigger factor in an OUTCAN move.

Put those two things together, posting season will be tight on the credit card/bank account for families going or coming from OUTCAN.
The new chip cards will be accepted everywhere a MasterCard is accepted. Currency rates are accurate and the security is there too.

https://www.bmo.com/main/personal/bank-accounts/banking-services/debit-mastercard-faqs




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Offline Furniture

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2017, 11:29:43 »
think the cash cards would likely help new members who may not have a credit card that can support thousands of dollars in hotels, gas, tolls etc...  I know as a 19 year old Pte I didn't have a CC that I could have made my last move on comfortably.

My cynical side tells me it's a move to get away from mileage, meal allowances, etc. no need to just throw money at people when you can tell them to charge it to the company card. Nobody is spending the full meals or mileage when they are driving cross country, so instead of the troops pocketing the extra the government gets to keep the money. Throw in an oil change at the end of the move and I can see the government saying they have met their obligations. But that's just my cynical impression based on how things have been going lately.


Online Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2017, 11:40:28 »
My cynical side tells me it's a move to get away from mileage, meal allowances, etc. no need to just throw money at people when you can tell them to charge it to the company card. Nobody is spending the full meals or mileage when they are driving cross country, so instead of the troops pocketing the extra the government gets to keep the money. Throw in an oil change at the end of the move and I can see the government saying they have met their obligations. But that's just my cynical impression based on how things have been going lately.

Solution.  Cash advance. 








Offline Furniture

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2017, 12:08:51 »
My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.

Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2017, 12:13:11 »
My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.
How do I deposit the balance of the card into my bank account?

Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2017, 12:25:14 »
Meal allowences arent changing so even if the member doesn't spend the entire meal expense, they should still be paid out that remaining money

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Offline sidemount

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2017, 12:26:07 »
Either that or you just keep the card until the money is all gone?

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Offline exgunnertdo

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2017, 13:50:25 »
How do I deposit the balance of the card into my bank account?
I imagine it will be reconciled a lot like it is now.

(Total claimable expenses) - (money spent on card) = claim paid

Currently: (total claimable expenses) - (advances) = claim paid
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2017, 14:08:24 »
CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17

SUBJ: CANADIAN ARMED FORCES RELOCATION PROGRAM (CAF RP)
REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16
B: CANADIAN FORCES INTEGRATED RELOCATION PROGRAM (CFIRP) DIRECTIVE
1. REF A ANNOUNCED THE ARRIVAL OF THE CAF RP UPON THE EXPIRATION OF
THE CURRENT IRP CONTRACT
2. IT WAS DETERMINED AFTER IN-DEPTH REVIEWS, CONSULTATIONS, AND
SURVEY FEEDBACK THAT SERVICE COULD BE IMPROVED BY PROVIDING GREATER
ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION WITH A MORE MODERN, INNOVATIVE SERVICE
DELIVERY MODEL
3. THE NEW CAF RP MODEL, EFFECTIVE 1 DEC 17, WILL PROVIDE GREATER
FLEXIBILITY AND INCREASED ACCESS TO RELOCATION INFORMATION THROUGH
WEB-BASED TECHNOLOGY (OFF BASES/WINGS INTO LIVING ROOMS)
4. ALTHOUGH BASE/WING BGRS REPRESENTATION WILL CEASE 30 NOV 17, THE
NEW MODEL WILL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE LIVE VIDEO (VIRTUAL FACE-TO-FACE)
INTERACTION AND LIVE CHAT ON THE SECURE WEBSITE. IN ADDITION, THE
SITE WILL OFFER INCREASED CONTROL AND ACCESS TO ALL RELOCATION
INFORMATION 24/7 FROM ANY LOCATION WITH INTERNET ACCESS
5. BENEFITS OUTLINED IN REF B WILL REMAIN THE SAME. HOWEVER,
ADVANCES TO COVER RELOCATION EXPENSES WILL BE LOADED ON TO A
DECLINING BALANCE RELOCATION CASH CARD THAT WILL BE ISSUED TO THE
MEMBER WITH THE FUNDS NEC TO CONDUCT THEIR RELOCATION. THE RELOCARD
CAN BE THE CONDUIT TO PAY FOR THIRD PARTY SERVICE PROVIDERS (TPSP)
SUCH AS APPRAISERS, HOME INSPECTORS, AND LAWYERS.  THE BALANCE
REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND
EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL
ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY
THE CAF
6. AS PER CANADAS DEFENCE POLICY STRONG, SECURE, ENGAGED, THIS NEW
DELIVERY MODEL AIMS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY BY PROVIDING A
MODERNIZED 24/7 WEB-BASED SVC DESIGNED TO GIVE CAF MEMBERS AND THEIR
FAMILIES IMPROVED RELOCATION SERVICE TO MEET THEIR CURRENT AND
FUTURE NEEDS
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
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Online Dolphin_Hunter

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2017, 15:18:03 »
My understanding is that the advances are going away and everything will be added to the card, which I'm sure will have very limiting conditions on it's use.

What I meant is, go to the bank machine and withdraw the funds.   


Offline Lkjhgfdsa

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2017, 22:46:55 »
CANFORGEN 206/17 CMP 107/17

SUBJ: CANADIAN ARMED FORCES RELOCATION PROGRAM (CAF RP)
REFS: A: CANFORGEN 070/16 CMP 035/16 221522Z APR 16
B: CANADIAN FORCES INTEGRATED RELOCATION PROGRAM (CFIRP) DIRECTIVE
1. REF A ANNOUNCED THE ARRIVAL OF THE CAF RP UPON THE EXPIRATION OF
THE CURRENT IRP CONTRACT
2. IT WAS DETERMINED AFTER IN-DEPTH REVIEWS, CONSULTATIONS, AND
SURVEY FEEDBACK THAT SERVICE COULD BE IMPROVED BY PROVIDING GREATER
ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION WITH A MORE MODERN, INNOVATIVE SERVICE
DELIVERY MODEL
3. THE NEW CAF RP MODEL, EFFECTIVE 1 DEC 17, WILL PROVIDE GREATER
FLEXIBILITY AND INCREASED ACCESS TO RELOCATION INFORMATION THROUGH
WEB-BASED TECHNOLOGY (OFF BASES/WINGS INTO LIVING ROOMS)
4. ALTHOUGH BASE/WING BGRS REPRESENTATION WILL CEASE 30 NOV 17, THE
NEW MODEL WILL CONTINUE TO INCLUDE LIVE VIDEO (VIRTUAL FACE-TO-FACE)
INTERACTION AND LIVE CHAT ON THE SECURE WEBSITE. IN ADDITION, THE
SITE WILL OFFER INCREASED CONTROL AND ACCESS TO ALL RELOCATION
INFORMATION 24/7 FROM ANY LOCATION WITH INTERNET ACCESS
5. BENEFITS OUTLINED IN REF B WILL REMAIN THE SAME. HOWEVER,
ADVANCES TO COVER RELOCATION EXPENSES WILL BE LOADED ON TO A
DECLINING BALANCE RELOCATION CASH CARD THAT WILL BE ISSUED TO THE
MEMBER WITH THE FUNDS NEC TO CONDUCT THEIR RELOCATION. THE RELOCARD
CAN BE THE CONDUIT TO PAY FOR THIRD PARTY SERVICE PROVIDERS (TPSP)
SUCH AS APPRAISERS, HOME INSPECTORS, AND LAWYERS.  THE BALANCE
REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND
EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL
ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY
THE CAF
6. AS PER CANADAS DEFENCE POLICY STRONG, SECURE, ENGAGED, THIS NEW
DELIVERY MODEL AIMS TO INCREASE FLEXIBILITY BY PROVIDING A
MODERNIZED 24/7 WEB-BASED SVC DESIGNED TO GIVE CAF MEMBERS AND THEIR
FAMILIES IMPROVED RELOCATION SERVICE TO MEET THEIR CURRENT AND
FUTURE NEEDS
Thanks for the share....That clears up a lot. Cash remaining on relocard is yours to do what you need to do.


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Offline ballz

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2017, 00:33:17 »
Maybe it's early so I am not following...

Nope, you are following exactly what I was saying correctly...

Now, I will get the PA minus taxes (somewhere around 50% would have been deducted if I had of taken it in cash)...how exactly am I still able to put my entire PA into a spousal RRSP if I only get half of it to start with.

 ???

Like I said,

The dollar effect is technically no different, same thing as the RRSP (having deposited directly in an RRSP vs depositing it yourself), but now the member has to foot the bill until their tax return.....

They are leaving it to the troops to figure out (aka frig the troops, duh). I just wanted to make sure everyone is understanding from a tax perspective how this stuff works for their own personal tax planning purposes.

I guess...if your PA is $5000, they take $2.5K in tax, you can still put $5k into your RRSP, funding the $2.5K taken for tax out of your own resources (LOC?) then get the tax back, pay off the LOC? Cause that's easy, right? [/sarcasm]

PITA...stuff like this makes it seem like they think we have a pot of money just sitting to be used to bridge finance these things.

Indeed. It is an interest free loan for the government. Ironically enough, if *you* get an interest free loan from your employer, you have to pay income tax on the free interest you weren't charged (Imputed Interest Benefit)..... but your employer gets an interest free loan from you, most will even have to use a line of credit and pay interest on it, and doesn't owe you an extra dime. I hate the government.

One thing people can do to help mitigate the damage is don't take the pay-out of their remaining personalized funds until December... at least you'll save ~5 months of interest on whatever method of credit you are using to foot the RRSP bill... and save yourself a bit more interest expense by filing as soon as possible.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2017, 08:58:21 »
What I meant is, go to the bank machine and withdraw the funds.   

I'm not quite certain it's going to work this way. But maybe?

Thanks for the share....That clears up a lot. Cash remaining on relocard is yours to do what you need to do.

Yes, but when? It says:

Quote
"THE BALANCE REMAINING ON THE RELOCARD, AFTER RECEIPTS HAVE BEEN UPLOADED AND EXPENSES RECONCILED, CAN BE TRANSFERRED TO THE MEMBER S PERSONAL ACCOUNT. POSTING ALLOWANCE AND T4/RL1 WILL BE ISSUED CENTRALLY BY THE CAF"

This leads me to believe that they won't transfer the remaining money off the card until after you have settled your final move claim.

What I'm curious about is, given it's a cash card, they really can't stop you from doing whatever you want with it, which I suppose is just like when they gave us a cash (Direct Deposit) advance. Example: they load my card with a $2000 advance, and I go and buy a new big screen tv from best buy.

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Offline Lkjhgfdsa

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2017, 09:10:09 »
I'm not quite certain it's going to work this way. But maybe?

Yes, but when? It says:

This leads me to believe that they won't transfer the remaining money off the card until after you have settled your final move claim.

What I'm curious about is, given it's a cash card, they really can't stop you from doing whatever you want with it, which I suppose is just like when they gave us a cash (Direct Deposit) advance. Example: they load my card with a $2000 advance, and I go and buy a new big screen tv from best buy.
It’s strange they won’t transfer your PA to RRSp but will transfer funds on left over on your card. Still a transaction and the PA = RRSP is a better one if we got to choose one transaction I would choose that one.

Oh man did I have a chuckle. I have wanted a new big screen for years and you make it sound so easy.

Looks like you can do what ever you want with it according to the only article I found about declining reloadable debut cards. Even cash machine aka ATM can be used.

Member gets card loaded = member goes to bank, empty’s account and puts in his\her personal account. Fini

https://www.fibank.bg/en/non-declining-balance-credit-cards/page/1079#our-offer




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Offline kratz

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2018, 17:37:00 »
APS 2018 has not begun yet, but CMs are already posting people prior to the end of the FY.
One comment I read on Facebook, is 400+ files have been added to the BRGS site.

I'm going through a move now as well.
Most benefits have not changed from the old system. The largest adjustment has been we do everything, IAW CAF policy.
If you don' read, follow or pay attention to details a member can easily get jammed up on this new system.

Please post your experience here, to help others as the posting system evolves.
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


Remember, this site is unofficial and privately owned. The site benefits from the presence of current members willing to answer questions.

Offline ballz

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2018, 20:37:27 »
It’s strange they won’t transfer your PA to RRSp but will transfer funds on left over on your card. Still a transaction and the PA = RRSP is a better one if we got to choose one transaction I would choose that one.

Oh man did I have a chuckle. I have wanted a new big screen for years and you make it sound so easy.

Looks like you can do what ever you want with it according to the only article I found about declining reloadable debut cards. Even cash machine aka ATM can be used.

Member gets card loaded = member goes to bank, empty’s account and puts in his\her personal account. Fini

https://www.fibank.bg/en/non-declining-balance-credit-cards/page/1079#our-offer


And then gets a gigantic tax bill come tax season for all of the things that didn't qualify as a moving expense.
Many persons have a wrong idea of what constitutes true happiness. It is not attained through self-gratification, but through fidelity to a worthy purpose.
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Online garb811

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2018, 21:34:02 »
APS 2018 has not begun yet, but CMs are already posting people prior to the end of the FY.
One comment I read on Facebook, is 400+ files have been added to the BRGS site.

I'm going through a move now as well.
Most benefits have not changed from the old system. The largest adjustment has been we do everything, IAW CAF policy.
If you don' read, follow or pay attention to details a member can easily get jammed up on this new system.

Please post your experience here, to help others as the posting system evolves.
I would suspect most of that 400 are pers graduating and coming off the BTL.  We had a QL3 course grad right before Christmas who were in the new system.  So far, feed back is mostly "system is working" but there have been one or two problems. 

Timelines for short notice moves are looking to be the biggest issue.  Up to 5 days after the message is cut for you to be entered into Brookfield's system.  Up to 7 days for your card to be loaded and dropped in the mail.  After that, how long Canada Post takes to get it to you is a crap shoot.  Counter that to my experience on my last move where I asked for an advance one day, it was approved the next and 2-3 days later money was in my bank. 

Shouldn't be a huge issue for a normal move but in cases where there is less time than normal, say a QL3 course which is normally only getting posting messages 2-3 weeks out from grad or those cases where everyone involved is trying to get a member somewhere ASAP, this could become a real problem.

Offline kratz

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2018, 21:50:36 »
Garb811,

The promised timeline, as mentioned is 17 working days on a slow season (one month), from message to action.

It took BGRS 7 working days to acknowledge our message and enter it in the system.
We are not part of the assumed BTL.
Quote from: Pipe *General Call*
"Tanning Stations on the flight deck"


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