Author Topic: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]  (Read 38073 times)

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jollyjacktar

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2018, 07:47:27 »
They should never have taken moves out of in-house delivery via the BOR.  Things keep sliding from bad to worse as far as Admin matters go since the cuts of the 90s started.

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2018, 09:52:49 »
They should never have taken moves out of in-house delivery via the BOR.  Things keep sliding from bad to worse as far as Admin matters go since the cuts of the 90s started.

Now hold on there  :orly:.  Didn't you read the CANFORGEN?  That old way of being able to, you know, talk to people face to face at the base you work at is being replaced with an INNOVATIVE SERVICE DELIVERY MODEL.

Time to get off the pity potty and join the program!

 ;D
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jollyjacktar

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2018, 10:36:10 »
I know, I know, I'm soooo old fashioned, wanting to deal with Fin/Adm Clerks instead of the civilian computer of the day. 

 :tempertantrum:

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2018, 08:29:39 »
Quote from: garb81
<snip>  Up to 7 days for your card to be loaded and dropped in the mail.  After that, how long Canada Post takes to get it to you is a crap shoot.  <snip>

Our "Reloc" Visa card arrived in the mail on time, but with no money. The way the system is supposed to work:

- Up to 5 working days to mail the card, no funds to prevent theft / fraud,
- Once the card arrives, you must activate the card on the bank's website,
- Next you need to confirm receipt of the card on the BGRS portal before you can request advances,
- Book your HHT
- The portal will not allow a request for funds to be loaded onto the card until 21 days in advance of the expense (HHT, move).
- Once advance is requested through the portal, wait another 5 business days for the funds to appear on the card.
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jollyjacktar

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2018, 10:26:30 »
Jesus wept, what a rigmarole.   ::)

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #55 on: February 03, 2018, 18:18:53 »

- Book your HHT

How did flight bookings go? Did you need a TIN for all family members ?


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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #56 on: February 03, 2018, 18:32:44 »
I'm happy to answer what we've experienced:

- The military member must the HHT_DIT application for the COC's approval, and
- Upload it to the BHRS portal, before any HHT (or DIT) will be actioned.
- The military member must use the HRG portal and create a profile for each dependant,
in order for a TIN to be issued for each individual.
- Within 48 hours of the TINs generation, we had our e-tickets and car rental confirmed,
including any special notes inputted in the BGRS portal by the member
(ie: child car seats with rental, pet care, disability issues).

I hope this helps.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2018, 09:20:44 »
This morning I received an email regarding a meeting from CF IRP Coordinators this month.
Some of the highlight points include:

- Contrary to the contract, BRGS Coordinators are not answering questions, redirecting members to CF IRP Coordinators
   or insisting members search policies for answers,
- The 1 Dec 17 IRP change is a change is Service Delivery, not in Policy,
- BGRS will assist the member with the F&E form, and Traffic Tech will book the van line,
- Posting Allowance and Relocation Allowance deposited on COS date via CCPS centrally not by local ORs,
- One T4 will be issued for all salary and relocation benefits, and
- At the start of the month:  978 moves are under the new system (309 pending and 678 registered)
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2018, 10:38:26 »
Policy remains in place from 2014/15. 

Interest rate buy down for mortgage still in policy - BGRS just will no longer administer that section of policy.  So it’s up to you to transfer the funds out of personalized to your lawyer who will send to your bank??
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2018, 19:56:55 »
Saw this on social media today and not really filling me with confidence - at least I'm not getting posted this year. 

Quote
Letter to my local MP:

Sir,

Good Day. I am a recently retired member of the CAF (8 Wg Trenton), and I would like to bring to your attention the horrible fiasco that is happening with the military relocation (i.e. posting) system.

Members who are posted (or, in my case, retired with a move benefit) are entitled to a specific criteria set out in a Relocation Directive, dated 2009. Here is the link: http://www.forces.gc.ca/…/about-policies-…/2009-aps-2014.pdf

We are managed by Brookfield Global Relocation Services (BGRS).
Recently, there was a change to the system and way monies are handled during a move. And it is becoming quite obvious that the new system is designed to be a financial and administrative burden on the individual - the CAF Member.

Under the old system, when we moved, it was quite simple. We registered with BGRS, we saw an agent, got briefed on what we were entitled to. We submitted receipts to BGRS as required, or requested an Advance of Funds. Any funds reimbursed or advanced were Direct Deposited to our Bank Accounts. Lawyers submitted their invoices direct to BGRS, and would pay the lawyer direct. Base traffic would get a directive from BGRS to book a moving company.

A new system took place on Dec 1, 2017.

All BGRS local offices were closed. We now deal solely online with our Agent.

The system itself is atrocious. There is no direction, no examples, no guidelines. You just sign in and see shortcuts and links called "Financial", "Receipts", "Expenses", "Claims", for example.

You are expected to figure out, on your own, that you need to upload Receipts, create an Expense (name it something. What? Well, we don't know. Call it something, anything, arbitrarily.) Then go create a Claim. It took myself and a Major over 16 hours of working together to figure out what to do as there was ZERO direction. We emailed and called our assigned Agents, but it often took 6 or 8 hours to get an answer. I shudder to think of what is going to happen when the avalanche of Posting Messages begin in March and April.

That's not the worst part.

The process for financial transactions has now solely been laid on the Member. Members are assigned a prepaid Visa card, being called a 'ReloCard". This ReloCard is now what members must use for all transactions.

Once you have submitted Expenses, you can pay a Vendor one of three ways:

1. Cash. You can take the cash off of your ReloCard or pay out of pocket and submit a Claim for reimbursement
2. Visa - if your Vendor takes Visa.
3. Submit a request for Direct Funds Transfer, using the Vendor's banking information.

There are some catches, and this is where the Member begins to assume financial punishment for their own move.

If a member chooses to pay out of pocket (for example, has not received their ReloCard in the mail), the member submits a Receipt online, and then money is loaded on to the card once approved. Member must take out Cash to pay/reimburse themselves.

Facts:
*There is a maximum of $500 cash withdrawal per transaction.
*There is a maximum of 15 lifetime cash withdrawals on the card
*This equals max $7500 that can be taken out on the card as CASH.
*A DFT is subject of a 1.5% surcharge that the Member must pay.
*This DFT surcharge is not reimbursable under the Relocation Directive dated 2009. Please note that there is no mention of these surcharges in this Directive as these surcharges were implemented in 2017.

Example:
Lawyer bill estimated at $15,000.
Cannot pay this by cash as it is over the lifetime card amount.
Member must submit a DFT request.
Member will be billed $225.

For myself, I have already assumed $5000 of expense claims for my move, and I will be forced to withdraw $500 a day from an ATM to get reimbursed for this. And I have to pay ATM fees on top of the one issued by the card (one ATM fee per day is claimable, as per the directive). This $5000 does not include the fee to the Lawyer and Realtor, due when my house closes. That invoice is estimated between $12,000 and $15,000. Using $15,000 as an example, this will mean that I am responsible for a $225 surcharge fee, that has been deemed 'non claimable" because "It is not listed in the Directive as being covered." To sum that up - BGRS instituted a random surcharge fee that is referenced nowhere in the Relocation Directive, yet we cannot request refund of that because it is not in the Directive. This is like asking us to pay a surcharge fee for the government direct depositing our paycheque.

Sir, this is very wrong. I am sad to think that I have now developed a serious anger and bitterness towards the CAF. That is not how I wanted to end my career. This is not how you want future generations of Canadian Forces' members to start out their career.

This needs to be seriously looked at, and soon. Members should not have to choose between paying their Lawyer and buying a box of diapers.

https://www.facebook.com/strembiski/posts/10160223995880226
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Offline dapaterson

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2018, 20:52:51 »
Or you could read the instructions and learn how to get an advance or reimbursement via Electronic Funds Transfer instead of taking a cash advance.  But if you and a Major combined can't find the Welcome Booklet after 16 hours (link #8 on the "BGRS Canadian Forces" page at https://www.irp-pri.com/start/cf_members/), then maybe there are deeper issues at play...

https://www.irp-pri.com/docs/start/cf/WelcomeBookletEnglish.pdf
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #61 on: March 01, 2018, 00:10:44 »
To be fair - those links are to the 2017 Welcome Booklet and do not reflect the new changes in service. 
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #62 on: March 01, 2018, 10:10:47 »
I'm curious about the service charges mentioned in the letter.  These were certainly reimbursable in the past.  If this is a change in delivery, not policy, has somebody missed something?
Sure, apes read Nietzsche.  They just don't understand it.

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2018, 20:18:22 »
Quote
3.4.01 Automated Teller Machine
Core benefit
CF members may be reimbursed additional ATM charges above their normal monthly fee for one transaction per day when related to the relocation.

She did mention that one ATM fee is claimable per day. So you have to withdraw $500 per day and upload all the ATM receipts.

From what I've read BGRS won't EFT money directly to personal bank accounts anymore. This is part of the "change in delivery"

Where I currently live many people still insist on cash or cheque. A house appraiser, inspector, contractor, agent etc doesn't carry a portable card reader here.

Sounds like a business tactic to skim 1.5% off all relocation expenses.

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2018, 20:49:44 »
My understanding is that the problems are being examined at the highest levels, and solutions identified.  I know that the launch was in Dec to find and fix problems before the bow wave of APS.
This posting made in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, section 2(b):
Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms: freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/charter/1.html

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2018, 09:49:11 »
As far as I've heard, third party service providers are still able to register with Brookfield and bill them directly.

So as long as you go with third party service providers that are registered with Brookfield, you shouldn't have to worry about weather they accept credit card or only take cash.

During my last move, the home appraiser, home inspector, lawyers and realtors all billed Brookfield directly. The only ones I had to pay cash were the house cleaning service and lawn maintenance company (I had to carry two mortgages for a couple of months).
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2018, 10:40:42 »
We are on our HHT now.

Reading the new policy, third part provider are to start billing CAF transferees directly, effective Dec 1st.

We had to pay our Realtor directly. He couldn't bill BGRS anymore.
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Offline Lumber

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2018, 11:12:28 »
We are on our HHT now.

Reading the new policy, third part provider are to start billing CAF transferees directly, effective Dec 1st.

We had to pay our Realtor directly. He couldn't bill BGRS anymore.

Well... I'm a little less excited now about the posting message I received just this morning.

This is f***ed, excuse my Portuguese. Why would they expect us to shill out that kind of cash when there was a perfectly good working system in the past?

I get taking away the BGRS advisors and moving to an online/mobile system. I don't get why they would take away a tried and tested billing system that doesn't even need the face-to-face advisors.
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2018, 16:31:21 »
I will never, ever, ever pay a $225 fee on behave of the GoC/CAF if I get posted because there is a service charge.  Ever.

Maybe some people should be telling their CofCs that, unfortunately, they cannot proceed on their posting because it will cause them undue financial hardship, and do you have a qualified Assisting Member you can recommend for me to decide if I should proceed with a redress of grievance please?
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Offline Eagle Eye View

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #69 on: March 02, 2018, 17:22:11 »
The Ombudsman is coming for a visit to Winnipeg in 2 weeks. Senior members are already talking about the hiccups with the new policy. I'm sure someone will raise the issue during the townhall. 
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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #70 on: March 02, 2018, 23:52:54 »
So after eagerly waiting for my posting message, I unexpectedly received it today, about a month earlier than I thought.  Then, a friend told me about all these new issues and now the excitement about a new posting has lead to a bit of confusion that I'm hoping will work itself out as soon as I can register in a week or so I guess.

My families plan is basically going to be to take a DIT sometime in May so the only expenses for now would be flights that will be taken care of for me after I register them with HRG, then I provide Brookfield with their TIN's.  They book the flights for all of us as well as the rental car at destination.  I use the Relo card to pay for the rental car, hotel and meals as well as taxi's to/from airport and boardig for cat while we're away.

Will it be this easy?  What am I forgetting about?



Offline stellarpanther

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2018, 10:49:45 »
When creating a TIN for dependants, do I just go to the HRG site and create a profile for them the same way as would be done for DND employees?  What do we put when it asks for "Full Company name" right at the beginning?

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2018, 10:58:33 »
Stellarpanther,

Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.

Note: HRG booked our car rental wit Hertz. At the airport, on our HHT, the car rental company denied the Reloc card, for the deposit / hold,
because it is a pre-paid card and not a normal credit card. So if you don't ave a personal CC for your DIT/HHT, your transportation options are severely limited.

Yes, use the HRG site to create their profiles and generate their TINs. Similar to when you created your own profile.
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Offline kev994

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2018, 11:21:12 »
Stellarpanther,

Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.

Note: HRG booked our car rental wit Hertz. At the airport, on our HHT, the car rental company denied the Reloc card, for the deposit / hold,
because it is a pre-paid card and not a normal credit card. So if you don't ave a personal CC for your DIT/HHT, your transportation options are severely limited.

Yes, use the HRG site to create their profiles and generate their TINs. Similar to when you created your own profile.
So the alleged benefit of the member not having this on their personal card doesn’t actually work? Awesome.

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Re: New IRP / Move policy-effective Dec 01, 2017 [Merged]
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2018, 12:07:32 »
Stellarpanther,

Be careful when paying for any service that normally puts a hold on a credit card (ie: pay gas at the pump, hotel check-in and car rental)
Vendors who release the hold(s) on the card can't return the funds, because the pre-paid Reloc card does not have that function.

Note: HRG booked our car rental wit Hertz. At the airport, on our HHT, the car rental company denied the Reloc card, for the deposit / hold, because it is a pre-paid card and not a normal credit card. So if you don't ave a personal CC for your DIT/HHT, your transportation options are severely limited.

Yes, use the HRG site to create their profiles and generate their TINs. Similar to when you created your own profile.

There are/were some Ptes in travel who had hotels also deny them use of the reloc card for the same reason.  When used for the actual payment methods for the hotel, the hotel, too, charged them a surcharge over their rate due to the nature of the reloc card not being an actual debit card or credit card. Apparently that surcharge also is not claimable (IE:  That's what your movement grant is for - since freakin' when!!??)

Also heard of a case where a Pte travelling on HHT from QL3s failed to receive his advance in time for the trip.  Being unable to afford the costs of hotels & meals for his family from his own pocket/credit card, he requested a re-booking of the flights for the trip etc until after BGRS actually deposited his advance and was berated and told he'd now be responsible to pay them (IIRC, it was around the $365.00 mark) a "service charge" per ticket.  Their error, yet his responsibility to pay this non-claimable/reimbursable expense.  I'm beginning to get the impression the BGRS is about to make a killing off of posted service members who are supposed to have their mandatory moves totally paid for.


I can only imagine the angst that a brand new Pte is feeling dealing with the chaos that is their first move where they don't have a schmick as to what their entitlements are and how to appropriately handle the situation / make contact for immediate resolution when things go to crap.

Not acceptable.

« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 12:14:00 by ArmyVern »
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